HOW IS RAND GOIN TO KILL THE DARK ONE AND HOW WILL ELAYNE HOLD THE KEY TO WINING

[price_check]

ok my guess is that when the time comes rand will break the final seal to summon the DO- rather then let him break free ova time and continue to screw wid the pattern

now we dnt know what form the Do will be in- human yet immortal or just a giant cloud of darkness yet either way rands best option would be balefire

but the problem is widout the other choden cal he will not be able to beat the dark one so im guessn that elayne will make a female choden cal and alivia n rand will use them to own the DO

am i right or do u pple hav better ideas?

 

[Mr Ares]

I doubt Rand will use balefire. For one thing, Cadsuane seems to have convinced him that he shouldn't use balefire, becuse of its harmful effect on the Pattern. Then there is the minor point that attempting to use balefire to kill Shai'tan would be suicidal. The quantity necessary to destroy Him would also destroy the world. I don't see Shai'tan dying either, just being resealed, nor do I think Elayne will make another Choedan Kal. There's the problems associated with channeling while pregnant, a lack of time, she doesn't know how, etc. Shai'tan will most likely not be defeated by channeling at Him. Something to do with ta'veren, perhaps.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I agree that it is the Ta'veren thing that will be used against the Dark One. That explains why Mat and Perrin need to be there as well. I reckon Rand will figure out a way to tap into the Ta'veren twist, and draw more of it from Mat and Perrin, and somehow use the twisting Pattern to re-bind the Dark One.

[Luckers]

Capps locking your title does not make it more inviting. Please don't do it again.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Capps locking your title does not make it more inviting. Please don't do it

UNQUOTE

 

Thats gotta be the pettiest thing Ive ever seen someone say on this website.

 

Anyway, why does everyone think Elayne is the key?

[Luckers]

You havn't been around that long Dreadlord. You'll see pettier.

 

I meant it as a staff member, but meh. Petty or not, it's still tacky, and needed to be said.

[aevogt]

It's not petty, it's common courtesy not to shout in normal conversation.  That's what caps lock is for, shouting.

 

 

The whole "Elayne at Tarmon Gaidon" thing is based on a misinterpretation of Elaida's fortelling about the Royal house of Andor being important.  

 

I say misinterpretation (and I could be wrong) because when she had the fortelling, Trakand was not the ruling house of Andor.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

I say misinterpretation (and I could be wrong) because when she had the fortelling, Trakand was not the ruling house of Andor.

UNQUOTE

 

THATS WHY I DIDNT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS ELAYNE; BECAUSE TRAKAND WASN'T THE ROYAL LINE AT THE TIME OF THE FORETELLING.

 

WASNT IT HOUSE DAMODRED THAT RULED AT THE TIME? (OR AM I GETTING MIXED UP WITH CAIRHEIN???). IF IT WAS DAMODRED THEN SURELY IT REFERS TO RAND, BECAUSE HE HAS DAMODRED BLOOD IN HIM IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.

[Luckers]

Was the caps meant to be ironic? In any case, no. Mantear was the house that held the throne at that time. Tigraine was married to a Damodred (and yeah, they are Cairhienin) but Rand has no Damodred blood in him.

 

Personally i interpret that foretelling to include every member of the royal line, including the Trakands. If you think about it one and all have played their part--Luc, Tigraine, Rand, Galad, Elayne, Morgase and Gawyn.

 

And, as an aside--the very inference of a foretelling is that it speaks to future states. It could well mean that the royal line of Andor (at the time of Tarmon Gai'don) is the key to Tarmon Gai'don, as easily as it could mean that the royal line of Andor (at the time of the foretelling) is key to Tarmon gai'don.

 

Personally i take it to mean both--a line is, after all, a series of points. Multiple.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I DONT SEE HOW ELAYNE COULD DO ANYTHING OF IMPORTANCE AT THE LAST BATTLE, AS SHE IS PREGNANT SO SHE CANT REALLY DO MUCH. MAYBE IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH HER UNBORN CHILDREN, BUT THAT BEING SAID I STILL CANT SEE WHY THEY WOULD BE THE KEY, UNLESS THEY CONTRIBUTE TO "HIS BLOOD" ON THE BLACK ROCKS, AND THAT'D BE PRETTY SICK.

[Luckers]

Drop the caps champ. Now.

 

 

[Majsju]

Using caps just to be annoying is a good way to get your posts deleted. Just saying...

[mothersmilkinacup]

I've always thought that Elaida's foretelling specifically refered to Rand.  I have no real back up for it, but as I've read and reread the series over the years, that is what made sense to me.

 

Okay, okay, I know that doesn't really add anything to thread but this does.......

 

Mothersmilkinacup says:

 

MOTHER'S MILK IN A CUP should always be capitalized!!!! 

[Dhaos]

The Dark One will not be destroyed via balefire.  He won't be destroyed at all.  Best case outcome for the Last Battle: The Bore is repaired.

 

Why do I say this- with extreme confidence?

 

"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend.  Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.  In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose....  The wind was not the beginning.  There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of time.

But it was a beginning."

- Robert Jordan

 

This has all happened before, and will happen again.  Hence 'wheel' of time.

[aevogt]

This is where I have to disagree a little bit Dhaos.

 

Rand is not going to repair the Bore. 

 

Based on Herid Fel's note "...Have to clear rubble before you can build..."

 

Rand will break all the remaining Seals to the DO's prison (clear the rubble) and the DO will break free. 

 

Somehow, and I do not profess to know how, maybe with the CK,  maybe his own blood, maybe something I haven't though of, Rand will make a new prison to hold the DO away from humanity for another 7 ages.  Before you can rebuild.

 

That's why HF was torn apart by a gholam.  He was way too close to the truth.

 

Personally, I feel that this is what has always happened and the Creator never sealed the DO away in the first place.  It has always been the Dragon. 

 

If the Do made the prison, nothing humans did should be able to open the Bore.  HF touches on this in their conversation as well.

 

"Maybe they drilled into the patch the previous Dragon made, he's not the Creator you know."  or words to that effect.

 

How many turnings of the wheel? 

 

Enough for what really happened to be misinterpreted in the subsequent folklore. 

 

Enough for the first Dragon to become the Creator and his enemy to become the dreaded Dark One.

 

 

[Ilyena]

Ok. First for the original thread. The key to winning the last battle was Rand's mother (the, at the time, daughter heir to the ruling house of Andor) making Rand the subject of the foretelling. However, all of those in the current house have played small parts (though that could just as easily be tav pulling on their threads).

Elayne will be present at the end, as, and I forget where, I remeber a foretelling, prophecy about Rand, collapsed in a boat with the "Lion, Spear and Seer) present. I always assumed at least that this would happend at the last battle, as nothing relevent to this has happened yet.

Obviously the Dragon is not the creator, as someone had to make the Dragon to begin.

Good questions though.

[Jehaine]

Speaking of Harad Fel, i've always wondered why they sent a Gholam at him rather than just have a Forsaken Travel in for the kill. Hell, a random Darkfriend with a dagger could do the trick, even if he isn't distracted by some book or another he isn't exactly Lan.

 

But yeah. It didn't quite add up to me why the DO would send one of its hidden trump cards -- an anti-channeler one -- at a non-channeler like Fel, possibly killing the element of surprise he'd have by sending the Gholam to a channeling target?

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Enough for the first Dragon to become the Creator and his enemy to become the dreaded Dark One.

UNQUOTE

 

That sounds interesting. Although I would be disappointed if the Dark One was anything other than the devil-figure. If the Dragon was the original Creator, then what was the original Dark One? This sounds like something Ishamael and Herid Fel would rant and rave about, philosophy and all that.

 

As for why any Darkfriend with a knife-or even a Forsaken-weren't sent to kill Herid Fel, the Shadow needed Herid Fel killing ASAP, it became a huge priority judging how close Herid was to the answer. The Forsaken can be killed by any guy with a dagger in the right circumstances. Send a gholam, that can squeeze under a closed door, cant be harmed by weapons OR the One Power...I reckon it would still have killed Herid Fel even if Rand, Mat, Perrin, Lan and Moiraine were with him at the time. Unless, of course, some bizarre Ta'veren twist happened, and THAT would be taking it too far, I think.

[OsaroLJ]

QUOTE

Enough for the first Dragon to become the Creator and his enemy to become the dreaded Dark One.

UNQUOTE

 

That sounds interesting. Although I would be disappointed if the Dark One was anything other than the devil-figure. If the Dragon was the original Creator, then what was the original Dark One? This sounds like something Ishamael and Herid Fel would rant and rave about, philosophy and all that.

 

As for why any Darkfriend with a knife-or even a Forsaken-weren't sent to kill Herid Fel, the Shadow needed Herid Fel killing ASAP, it became a huge priority judging how close Herid was to the answer. The Forsaken can be killed by any guy with a dagger in the right circumstances. Send a gholam, that can squeeze under a closed door, cant be harmed by weapons OR the One Power...I reckon it would still have killed Herid Fel even if Rand, Mat, Perrin, Lan and Moiraine were with him at the time. Unless, of course, some bizarre Ta'veren twist happened, and THAT would be taking it too far, I think.

 

Futhermore, it would insinuate that some of the Shadow(especially the Forsaken)know how to rid the world of the DO. Now, if I recall, Asmodean did not know much...but I wonder which of the Forsaken was behind the Gholam and how much they know about banishing the DO...

[Valinthros]

Futhermore, it would insinuate that some of the Shadow(especially the Forsaken)know how to rid the world of the DO. Now, if I recall, Asmodean did not know much...but I wonder which of the Forsaken was behind the Gholam and how much they know about banishing the DO...

 

My guess would be Ishy//Moridin.  ;)

[Guest Dreadlord]

Ive thought for a while that Sammael sent the Gholam, as after he died it started doing as it wished, as if its master was dead, like it no longer needed to follow orders.

[dreago]

As a side note, how did the shadow know about Herid Fel anyway? This leads ne to believe that there is a HIGH ranking darkfrined, or even a Forsaken in either the academy or nearby Rand. I don't remember, but was Dashiva(Mr. Gar) with Rand before Fel's death, I don't think he was.

[RAND AL THOR]

Ive thought for a while that Sammael sent the Gholam, as after he died it started doing as it wished, as if its master was dead, like it no longer needed to follow orders.

 

Doing as it wished? I seem to remember it being focused on Mat and somehow killing him. That would be an instruction from one of the Forsaken right? Since they want both Mat and Perrin dead.......

 

The Creator created the world with the DO outside reality. The Dragon is certainly not the Creator. And I also do not think that the prison will be remade. It is most likely that the Bore will be repaired in some way even if not in the way LTT did it. Re-contructing the Bore may be a task too immense for any human.

[metria31183]

As a side note, how did the shadow know about Herid Fel anyway? This leads ne to believe that there is a HIGH ranking darkfrined, or even a Forsaken in either the academy or nearby Rand. I don't remember, but was Dashiva(Mr. Gar) with Rand before Fel's death, I don't think he was.

 

Did Mazrim Taim know about Fel and Rand's school?

[Feral]

Ive thought for a while that Sammael sent the Gholam, as after he died it started doing as it wished, as if its master was dead, like it no longer needed to follow orders.

 

Doing as it wished? I seem to remember it being focused on Mat and somehow killing him. That would be an instruction from one of the Forsaken right? Since they want both Mat and Perrin dead.......

 

 

I think that was only after Mat managed to hurt it with his medalion and it became a bit obsessed.

 

As for the origninal post, I think that as others have said Rand will merely prison the DO again, not destroy him.