Quien Mas Chosen?

[Jehaine]

For some reason, i'm getting the odd 'what if' feeling saying that Mesaana might be Verin?

 

She knows a lot, she's been an Aes Sedai back when Moiraine and Siuan were still Novices (lets not forget that that same Moiraine was sent out to find the Dragon Reborn, and Siuan became Amyrlin) and from the few times the two of them talked in the books it was clear that Verin was looking out over them. Though leaving sweetcakes isn't an evil act per se, it did manage to form a bond between Verin and them, and i can't shake the thought that Mesaana would have used similar tactics to gain the trust of what would later become known as her Children.

 

Add to that the Younglings rebelling against the Warders (which i see as another referrence to Mesaana's Children btw), along with several other instances where she knows way, WAY more than she lets on. Call it a typical case of 'knowing too much', but i believe even Lanfear (as Selene) admitted that there were no post-Breaking copies in existance of the book she got her information of the Portal Stones out of, which makes it somewhat odd for the White Tower libraries to have a bunch of info about the subject either.

 

Don't get me wrong, i like Verin as a character. But when i look at how she ends up showing up at the right time to do do the right things keeps nagging me as to whether or not she knew it would be happening.

 

Take the Younglings, for example. Verin was said to have hired too many workers, but they all sided with the Younglings to get Siuan out of the White Tower. Despite a number of things seemingly pointing at her taking actions against the DO, i can't help but think that the majority of her efforts is meant to manoever her way into people's trust, thus having them drop (or at least weaken) their guard around her.

 

In short, i can't shake the feeling that Verin somewhat fits Mesaana's profile. Though she isn't likely to be pulling the strings of the White Tower (Siuan may trust her, but she's not stupid), she'd definitely have more leeway than most (her age is another factor), which would be all she'd need to do her work without gathering unwanted attention.

 

For some reason, i can imagine RJ chuckling to himself about all the people wondering who Mesaana is posing as, while her alias would've been known as far back as the first book. Though i hope i'm wrong, it's exactly this hope that makes me doubt Verin's one of the good guys.

 

Or call me paranoid, that works too.

[Rasta Ashaman]

If Verin is Mesaana, why didn't she deliver Rand to the DO when she had plenty of opportunities in the very beginning?

 

Take the Younglings, for example. Verin was said to have hired too many workers, but they all sided with the Younglings to get Siuan out of the White Tower.

 

And, as far as I remember, the only Youngling to help Siuan escape from the WT was Gawyn; while the Younglings actually fought against the Warders that wanted to free Siuan.

 

Or call me paranoid, that works too.

Do you want to talk about it?  ;D

[aevogt]

Except, when Shaidar Haran shows up and does his sheild trick on Mesaana, her disguise vanishes and Alviarin does not recognize her as Verin.  

 

Unless Verin is going around disguised all the time

 

Yet Rand sheilds Verin (and Alanna) in LOC and no disguise vanishes at that time.  

 

I used to think Mesaana could be Tarna but we get a POV in KoD that disproves that one.  Personally, I thnk she is just  posing as some random AS in the Tower and not Danelle.

 

It was Danelle who hired the extra masons that turned out to be mercenaries.

[Bob T Dwarf]

IIRC, there is one scene where Verin is described as wearing a dress that bears a striking similarity to the one Mesaana is wearing when Alviarin gets her sneaky-peek.

 

I really hope she isn't Black, though.  She and Siuan are the only ones who know where the Horn of Valere currently is.

 

Very Bad Things will happen if the Dark gets their hands on that before Mat gets a chance to sound it again.

 

So, overall, I'd say, not Mesaana, but still possibly Black.  ( but, please, Creator, not really either. )

[Jehaine]

IIRC, there is one scene where Verin is described as wearing a dress that bears a striking similarity to the one Mesaana is wearing when Alviarin gets her sneaky-peek.

 

I really hope she isn't Black, though.  She and Siuan are the only ones who know where the Horn of Valere currently is.

 

According to the wikia, "The Horn of Valere is supposed to be present at the Last Battle, but there is no mention of it in the Prophecies of the Dragon.", meaning that going by the wording, there is a distinct possibility here that the Heroes will be forced to fight for the Shadow. Assuming it will be linked to a Darkfriend (Dreadlord or otherwise), all they'd basically need is the banner of the Dragon.

 

Very Bad Things will happen if the Dark gets their hands on that before Mat gets a chance to sound it again.

 

So, overall, I'd say, not Mesaana, but still possibly Black.  ( but, please, Creator, not really either. )

 

I am reminded of a quote of Hawkwing's, when he saw Rand (and called him Lews Therin)...

 

"I have fought by your side times beyond number, Lews Therin, and faced you as many more."

 

The way i read it at the time (still am, for that matter) is that at some point the Heroes will fight against (an incarnation of) Lews Therin. Whether it be Rand or not remains to be seen, but it does certainly add fuel to the fire given that Verin is one of two people that knows where the Horn is at the moment, without it being bonded to Mat.

 

According to the wikia, "The Horn of Valere is supposed to be present at the Last Battle, but there is no mention of it in the Prophecies of the Dragon.", and going by the wordings heer i'd say there is a distinct chance the Heroes will be forced to fight for the Shadow in TG. Assuming the Horn is linked to a Darkfriend (Dreadlord or otherwise), all it'd basically take is the Banner of the Dragon, and that is easier to swap with a replica than, say, the heavily guarded Seanchan copy of the Karaethon Cycle.

[Majsju]

The way i read it at the time (still am, for that matter) is that at some point the Heroes will fight against (an incarnation of) Lews Therin. Whether it be Rand or not remains to be seen, but it does certainly add fuel to the fire given that Verin is one of two people that knows where the Horn is at the moment, without it being bonded to Mat.

 

Since Rand is a Hero as well, and Heroes can be spun out facing eachother when the Wheel needs such confrontation, I am pretty sure that is what Hawkwing refered to, not "LTT" vs the Heroes brought back by the Horn.

 

and going by the wordings heer i'd say there is a distinct chance the Heroes will be forced to fight for the Shadow in TG.

 

I do not really see Mat turning DF in AMOL, and we knpw he willnot die, so the Heroes will not fight for the shadow in TG. At least not this turning of the Wheel.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Well, since nobody has been anywhere near the Horn since before Mat got hung and before Mat got killed and then unkilled at Caemlyn, we can't really be sure what effect those events had on his link to the Horn.

 

My guess is - no harm, no foul - but, until somebody actually tries to sound it again, we won't know for sure.

[Majsju]

Since balefiring Rahvin means that Mat did not die, it would be quite a stretch to all of a sudden throw out one great exception for the Horn.

 

And he did not die in Rhuidean, so that is irrelevant.

[Jehaine]

Actually, Mat did not not die, he was 'un-killed'. Whether or not the brief moment that he had been dead for the Wheel had any influence on his link with the actual Horn still remains to be seen, and i doubt he'll be jumping at the chance to blow that thing again.

 

Allow me to explain:

 

15:00, Mat dies.

 

15:12, Rand balefires Rahvin, undoing Mat's death.

 

Fact remains that however you look at it, Mat has been dead for 12 minutes in that example. Asmo confirms this later on, as he heads back to his tent thinking about some of the Aiel telling him they had seen him die. For them to remember, it must have happened, and by extention that means that they had been as dead as you can get for those brief minutes.

[Myndrunner]

.....and Payback is coming in MoL!!  The Gambler has a blind date with the Elfins......and it looks like they ordered the Lobster!

[Bob T Dwarf]

Cake, please.

[aevogt]

I very much approve of the nod to William H. Macy in "Mystery Men"

 

 

[Myndrunner]

Fine!  Give him cake too!.....we're gonna run out of cake at this rate!

 

-Dirk Dark Night Furious