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Demandred = Taim?


nashdude

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^ i was referring to the book mention LoC.  in which i was saying that i was sure that Taim never said it, just the the LoC was said by Demandred and in child nursery rhymes.

 

as i've mentioned before in several posts, i've only just finished up CoT; so i had no idea that Taim did mention that.  no worries on the spoiler thing ;) it is run a risk for posting in these boards without finishing the entire series and i'm glad that i am corrected so someone doesn't get wrong information due to me not being done with books.

 

but that is further proff that he is a dark friend, and more information pointing toward the fact that he might be workign for the Forsaken; since we know that Demandred was told to "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule" by the DO in SG

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no, Taim is a dark Friend and if he's not a forsaken then hes working for one and will be head of the Dreadlords come TG.  too much tension and such has been built against him for RJ to have turned the plot around and say "yeah he was good all along"

 

i know for a fact Demandred said "Let the LoC rule" twice in LoC, in the beginning and in the end.  and i think LoC was mentioned a few times in the FoH as a childrens nursery thingy; but i don't recall Taim ever saying it.

 

*blushes* for a while after reading LoC i kept saying to Bubba "So when is this LoC character going to show his face??"  he just shook his head and said keep reading.  i'd read a few more chapters and ask again lmao

 

1)We don't know Taim is planning to turn his group of Asha'man on Rand. We only have Logain's word that the Asha'man are more loyal to Taim than the Dragon Reborn. And who says Logain is neccessarily a good guy?

 

2) The person who gave orders to the renegade Asha'man could've been using Illusion to make himself appear as Taim.

 

3) Even if Taim did order Rand killed, he might have done it because he thought Rand had lost it.

 

4) For all Taim knew, Narishma and the others were traitors. Rand never mentioned who the ones who attacked him were, only that Dashiva was amongst them.

 

I know these don't really make a strong case, but I have a feeling Taim will not be just another Darkfriend. At least, not only that.

 

i mean another point that says Taim is a bad guy, besides creating his own faction within the BT to take down Rand (maybe a training for Dreadlords??)  is the fact he issues oders that the Asha'man with rand were traitors; not wanting Rand to really have any strong channlers on his side.

 

 

i knwo Rand was buisy and everything, but he should have kept a closer watch on the BT to make sure Taim didn't do something like that.  try to set up his own eyes and ears within it.  liek i said, i know the boy has too much on his plate already, but seeing how Taim's rather ambitous and Rand wasn't even sure how strong Taim really is and that he needs them for TG i'd want to visit them each month, make sure they know the DR on site and know who the true leader is type thing.

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i know for a fact Demandred said "Let the LoC rule" twice in LoC, in the beginning and in the end.  and i think LoC was mentioned a few times in the FoH as a childrens nursery thingy; but i don't recall Taim ever saying it.

 

Just throwing in, but the saying is from a child's nursery rhyme from the Forth Age--none of the characters in the book would know of it. The full rhyme goes...

 

The lions sing and the hills take flight.

The moon by day, and the sun by night.

Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.

Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

 

 

1)We don't know Taim is planning to turn his group of Asha'man on Rand. We only have Logain's word that the Asha'man are more loyal to Taim than the Dragon Reborn. And who says Logain is neccessarily a good guy?

 

He did send four of his men to kill Rand in tPoD... I think that sort of qualifies as 'turning on the Dragon Reborn.

 

2) The person who gave orders to the renegade Asha'man could've been using Illusion to make himself appear as Taim.

 

Why would they, when Demandred and Moridin both go to the Asha'men direct. The order came from the Chosen, so it was either Taim, or a Chosen--why hide?

 

Add to that the Grey Man, the attack on Demira, and the likelyhood that he is responsible for the attack on Tear then it does seem definate that Taim is a darkfriend, and raised Chosen besides.

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It is odd, isn't it? Taim calls it "the old saying", but it dates back (or forward) to the Fourth Age. Even the Forsaken weren't around during the Fourth Age...

 

But the Dark One is older than the Forsaken, and it was the Dark One that first gave the order to let the Lord of Chaos rule.

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1)We don't know Taim is planning to turn his group of Asha'man on Rand. We only have Logain's word that the Asha'man are more loyal to Taim than the Dragon Reborn. And who says Logain is neccessarily a good guy?

 

2) The person who gave orders to the renegade Asha'man could've been using Illusion to make himself appear as Taim.

 

3) Even if Taim did order Rand killed, he might have done it because he thought Rand had lost it.

 

4) For all Taim knew, Narishma and the others were traitors. Rand never mentioned who the ones who attacked him were, only that Dashiva was amongst them.

 

I know these don't really make a strong case, but I have a feeling Taim will not be just another Darkfriend. At least, not only that.

 

these aren't part of my original post.  next time Asmo, please put them in a different color or outside of the quote to indicate that please ;) otherwise it makes it look like i'm arguing agaisnt the point i'm trying to make lmao

 

 

yes, Taim did send those four Ash'man to kill Rand, and they recruited other Ash'man to help them do the job as well (those who were with Rand but didn't like how events at Dumai(sp) Wells turned out)

 

 

i don't think he is a Choosen, but i do think he might be working for Moridin and Demendred witht he promise of beign raised to Chosen status.  theres no doubt in my mind he is a darkfriend though.

 

another point that made me think he was a Chosen in disguise (though i don't think so now) was the fact that he escaped from the Aes Sedia once he was in custody.  i want to say that by the time he escaped they had a full circle of 13 on him to hold him captive.  even logain couldn't escape that and Rand needed to have more than half of the sisters tie off weaves for him to break through their sheild.

 

either Taim had help escaping, or he is alot stronger than we know (like on the scale that Ishamael was) 

 

that always struck me as odd, and i never believe a word that comes from Taims own mouth.

 

i also see the fact that Logain is willing to bond the Aes Sedia rather than Kill them on the spot as him being less chance of being a dark friend.  where Taim wanted to go out and kill every Aes Sedia he could, Logain isn't blood thirsty (he only wants to bring down the Red's)

 

 

 

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yes, Taim did send those four Ash'man to kill Rand, and they recruited other Ash'man to help them do the job as well (those who were with Rand but didn't like how events at Dumai(sp) Wells turned out)

 

They didn't recruit other Asha'men to join them. Corlan Dashiva, who was secretly Osen'gar, joined in the attack only after it had begun and after Rand came upon him talking to the Fearsome Foursome.

 

i don't think he is a Choosen, but i do think he might be working for Moridin and Demendred witht he promise of beign raised to Chosen status.  theres no doubt in my mind he is a darkfriend though.

 

There is a very strong argument to suggest that he has been raised Chosen--probably by Shaidar Haren.

 

another point that made me think he was a Chosen in disguise (though i don't think so now) was the fact that he escaped from the Aes Sedia once he was in custody.  i want to say that by the time he escaped they had a full circle of 13 on him to hold him captive.  even logain couldn't escape that and Rand needed to have more than half of the sisters tie off weaves for him to break through their sheild.

 

He was probably freed by Black Sisters--my guess would be that those sisters later joined with the borderlanders, and are the Thirteen that Merillile sees.

 

 

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Demandred is disguised as Charlz Guybon.

 

Mind you, I have almost zero evidence to back up this outrageous claim, but I've said it before, the guy is too good to be true.

 

There is virtually no interaction between Elayne and Demandred, except for one scene in LoC where Demandred is creeping about in TAR and encounters Elayne in the Grand Hall in the Royal palace complaining to herself about what Rand has done in Camelyn.

 

For starters, what is Demandred doing in Camelyn?

 

What does he mean by "Another thread of the pattern pulled"

 

 

 

 

 

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I doubt it. Charlz Guybon is an actual person--the winner of a contest. RJ promised to include whoever won in the book in some small way. Thats why he is too good to be true. I don't see RJ making his contest winner an evil bastard.

 

 

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Guest Dreadlord

Why not? If I won a contest and was promised I would appear in the book in some way, and it turned out I was Demandreds alter ego, I would be buzzing!

 

I cant remember anything about Charlz Guybon though

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He shows up out of nowhere in KoD, looking like something off a US Army recruiting poster, with enough men to keep Elayne from losing Camelyn.

 

I never knew it was in relation to a contest but RJ had a soft spot for his evil bastards.

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Guest Dreadlord

QUOTE

another point that made me think he was a Chosen in disguise (though i don't think so now) was the fact that he escaped from the Aes Sedia once he was in custody.  i want to say that by the time he escaped they had a full circle of 13 on him to hold him captive.  even logain couldn't escape that and Rand needed to have more than half of the sisters tie off weaves for him to break through their sheild.

 

either Taim had help escaping, or he is alot stronger than we know (like on the scale that Ishamael was) 

UNQUOTE

 

I wondered about this as well, but it is easy enough to say he could have had help from the Black Ajah-Alviarin springs to mind-or maybe even Mesaana

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Again, the thirteen with the borderlanders make a likely case to be what happened to those that freed Taim. In perfect position at perfect time to be the ones to mesh with the borderlanders, and combine that with the increasingly dire portents for Rand's meeting with them....

 

 

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