What the flip is these women's problem???...and why rand loves 'em!!!!

[Dbob]

Well, Frankly there’s a whole lot of chauvinism (and not the reverse kind) in the way Jordan portrays relationships. For example, Rand; Now I’m the last person to make excuses for the inane and frankly immature way most of the women behave but - Rand – My. God. His feelings are so important that he’s willing to let a super villain kill off Egwene and Avi. It doesn’t get much more sexist than that. His feelings are more important than their lives.

 

Then there’s the whole rape of Mat. If you don’t think that’s creepy, switch the pronouns. Lets see, an overbearing middle aged man chases some sweet young thing, despite multiple protestations, and a thousand nos, he then ties her to a bed and “makes her like it.”

 

Not to mention all the paddling, spanking, slippers and switches.

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

All of which gets to the heart of my objections to how the women have been written.

 

The members of this forum can't even have a civilized discussion about the subject.  The books have so polarized people's feelings about the portrayal's that responses and counter-responses have started to get emotionally charged.

 

The only female character I can think of who has been portrayed in a likable manner is Moiraine.  If you read "New Spring", I'm not even sure that she meets the test.

 

I have to say, that I do admire Siuan and Leane's refusal to just give up and die.  With whatever other character flaws they've been painted, that took gumption, and I hope to see them playing prominent roles in 12.

[bRANDan]

I have to say, that I do admire Siuan and Leane's refusal to just give up and die.  With whatever other character flaws they've been painted, that took gumption, and I hope to see them playing prominent roles in 12.

 

As do I. I think most of the older female characters are alright, Verin, Cadsuane, older Moiraine, Aiel like Amys, Bair, Sorilea, and Tuon. It's the younger ones that need to get some maturity beaten into them, figuratively. No offense ladies, but I have seen many more girl-on-girl fights(real hate-on fights) than guy-on-guy fights. Way, waayyy more, like 10:1. I think that though girls bodies mature faster, their minds mature slower. Again, no offense intended, I have a HUGE extended family, and all the parents with both boys and girls say the same thing; girls are difficult to handle when they are older (above 13) boys are hard to handle when they are younger (below 16).

 

I also think it is exaggerated in WoT. You want to read a series with kick-ass female characters, then check out Acacia by David Anthony Durham. Only the first book has been written so far, but I thought it was very well written.

[Brooke]

See I think Elayne was fairly good in the beginning. Her pregnancy is definitely not getting along with her well, and she definitely has an indepenedant flair in her that escalates the more she is around Nyneave, but she was taught fairly well by Lini and her mother. She didn't think that just because she was a noble that peasants and farmers were below her. She knew that people need to feel like they are worth something no matter what the station in life they held. Some times it seems like the majority of the nobles, and women that can channel, seem to treat others as beneath them to make themselves feel like they are more. Nyneave is a prime example of this. It might have been necessary to a degree to deal with the Woman's Circle in Emond's Field, but she takes it way to far for the majority of the series.

 

Aviendha is proud and stubern. She basically had to be dragged kicking and scream (or the equivallent for an Aiel) to Rhuidean to become a Wise One. But at the same time Aviendha is completely different than all the other female characters because she shows that she knows how to be humble and give in (even if she does act like a child who does not want to brush her teeth) when it needs to be done.

 

Unfortunately Rand needs a strong women (or two...or three) because of who he is and because of his own stuborn will. I have many issues with all the women in these books, but I make allowance for some of them mostly because I know how real women can be at times, and partially because these girls Rand is in love with are either still under twent or just barely over 20. Most likely this is their first "grown up" relationship and they aren't used to dealing with their feelings a good way yet. But that love sick kid stuff only goes so far.