TAIM IS ISAM , BREYAN'S SON , LAN'S COUSIN !!!!!

[Guest CALDAZAR]

IT JUST CAME TO ME AFTER ALL THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT TAIM .

DURING THE ATTACK AT EMOND'S FIELD SOME TROLLOCS WERE SHOUTING "ISAM" . AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS ISHAMAEL IN THEIR LANGUAGE ,  BUT WHAT IF IT'S THE NAME OF THEIR DREADLORD COMMANDER ? AH , I FORGOT , NO DREADLORDS ANYMORE ....

SO , WE ARE LOOKING FOR A MAN WHO CAN CHANNEL (PLENTY OF THAT) , BORDERLANDER (TAIM IS FROM THE NORTH ) , DARKFRIEND  , FROM ROYAL LINE (I WONDER IF THAT EXPLAINS WHY TAIM LOOKS DOWN TO EVERYONE AND FEELS EQUAL TO ELAYNE).

RJ WRITES "NO ONE KNOWS THEIR FATE A CERTAIINTY "AT BOOK ONE , SO ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE ....WOULD THE TROLLOCS KILL A BOY WHO CAN CHANNEL AND HIS FAMILY ARE DARKFRIENDS ?  I THINK NOT ....

[Jehaine]

Hmm... No, i don't think they are. There's plenty of proof that Taim is much older than the Fall of Malkier.

 

If anything, i'd guess Taim to be one of the Forsaken in disguise, perhaps even the Nae'blis

[Jelly]

They deleted their account right after posting??

[CALDAZAR]

HOW OLD IS TAIM?

[Jelly]

Have you got one of those keys, the one that says "Caps lock"? ;)

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=84

Mazrim Taim - b. 971-973 NE, 27-29

He looks about 15 years older than Rand, Lord of Chaos, A New Arrival, so he looks around 35 or a few years more at most. However, Taim apparently looks old for his age (the only channeler that does) and he is in fact in his late twenties:

 

Jordan: "Taim has slowed, but one thing I am not going to reveal it in the books, so I’ll tell you, men slow later than women do. And yes, he has slowed, and he is in his late twenties, yes his late twenties."

 

 

At first it was suggested that Taim’s appearance was inconsistent, but Robert Jordan later explained that, in his earlier books, Taim looked much older because of the traumatic experiences he had just endured added to his long journey and flight to Caemlyn. In his later books, Taim has recovered and doesn’t look as old as he did.

 

[Feral]

Firstly, I believe Taim is Saldaean (with the nose and eyes) while Isam was Malkieri, who don't have the slanted eyes and "bold" noses.  Secondly, Isam is "half" of Slayer and is probably too busy to play at leader of the BT.

[Jehaine]

Taim appears to prefer names and ranks taken from old Ages, as if he's more familiar with using them. He also sent four Asha'man (all four of them Darkfriends!) to kill Rand, and is far from being a loyal subject.

 

He also said once "Let the Lord of Chaos rule", which isn't believed to be known outside of the Forsaken themselves.

 

So yeah, plenty of proof. Should he be a Forsaken, it'd mean he is immune to aging and thus would appear to be simply the age he was when he took his Oaths to the Shadow.

[CALDAZAR]

Isam is Slayer? Is it stated somewhere in the books ? I cannot believe that Taim is a Forsaken .Seems more self-educated to me than master of the power. Why would he help Rand ? Practically saved his life at Dumai Wells . It would be cost effective to let him die .Rand dies , bad guys win .

[Jehaine]

If Taim is a Forsaken, that means he wins by default if Rand dies. Thus, by allowing himself to become his ally, he can actually get much closer to him than when he'd have fought him.

 

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

Sun-tzu

Chinese general & military strategist (~400 BC)

 

Which i believe is the tactic Taim is employing here as well.

 

Also, linked for spoilerage:

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Slayer

[aevogt]

 

 

I think Taim is...  Taim, turned by a circle. 

 

 

 

It's been brought up in the series and that kind of thing is usually put in for a reason.

[BrainFireBob]

Since we have Slayer's first-hand POV when he changes back and forth between Isam and Luc, yes, it's all-but flat-out confirmed that Isam is half of Slayer.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Firstly, it is Luc that the wolfs call Slayer; they called him that when speaking of him to Perrin. Seeing as Luc and Isam are technically the same guy to a point it is safe to call Luc and Isam Slayer.

 

Secondly, if taim was Isam, surely rand would have acknowlegded the resemblance between Lan and isam? Others have

[Andrew the Great]

So yeah, plenty of proof. Should he be a Forsaken, it'd mean he is immune to aging and thus would appear to be simply the age he was when he took his Oaths to the Shadow.

 

I could be wrong here, but I thought the Forsaken were not immune to aging, they just were immortal because their souls can be recycled as soon as they die (unless they get balefired...). Anyone want to clarify?

[Guest Dreadlord]

No, the recycling thing is just another chance given by the Dark One. The immortality thing is what kept them alive for 3000 years of being bound. So yes, the immortality thing is what stops them from aging; channellers wouldnt live that long however strong and however much they channelled.

[Mr Ares]

I could be wrong here, but I thought the Forsaken were not immune to aging, they just were immortal because their souls can be recycled as soon as they die (unless they get balefired...). Anyone want to clarify?

Aginor and Balthamel were both aged quite a bit (understatement) after their time in the Bore. The othere were buried deeper, which protected them from the effects of 3,000 years passing. Of course, as they were now 3,000 years older than when they went in, and rather withered, it seems like a good bet that they had something extending their lifespans a bit. So they could be considered immortal, but can still age.

 

Firstly, it is Luc that the wolfs call Slayer

Isam surely, as he was the one doing the killing in the Wolf Dream.

[CALDAZAR]

IT JUST CAME TO ME AFTER ALL THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT TAIM .

DURING THE ATTACK AT EMOND'S FIELD SOME TROLLOCS WERE SHOUTING "ISAM" . AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS ISHAMAEL IN THEIR LANGUAGE ,  BUT WHAT IF IT'S THE NAME OF THEIR DREADLORD COMMANDER ? AH , I FORGOT , NO DREADLORDS ANYMORE ....

SO , WE ARE LOOKING FOR A MAN WHO CAN CHANNEL (PLENTY OF THAT) , BORDERLANDER (TAIM IS FROM THE NORTH ) , DARKFRIEND  , FROM ROYAL LINE (I WONDER IF THAT EXPLAINS WHY TAIM LOOKS DOWN TO EVERYONE AND FEELS EQUAL TO ELAYNE).

RJ WRITES "NO ONE KNOWS THEIR FATE A CERTAIINTY "AT BOOK ONE , SO ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE ....WOULD THE TROLLOCS KILL A BOY WHO CAN CHANNEL AND HIS FAMILY ARE DARKFRIENDS ?  I THINK NOT ....

I CAN OFFICIALLY DECLARE THAT TAIM IS NOT ISAM .I MUST REREAD THE BOOKS I THINK :)

[Guest Dreadlord]

Oh yes it was Isam in the Dream, I only remembered Luc riding off with the wound Perrin gave him but now I remember it was Isam he shot. Its a while since I read that part

[bRANDan]

Aginor and Balthamel were both aged quite a bit (understatement) after their time in the Bore. The othere were buried deeper, which protected them from the effects of 3,000 years passing. Of course, as they were now 3,000 years older than when they went in, and rather withered, it seems like a good bet that they had something extending their lifespans a bit. So they could be considered immortal, but can still age.

At the end of tEotW Aginor is drawing off of the Saidin in the Eye and he seems to flesh out. Also he says earlier that "the wheel grinds exceedingly fine over 3000 years of imprisonment". Those two points together always indicated to me that the Chosen are protected from aging but when they were sealed in the bore the seal that held them blocked the DO's protection.

-Those that were buried deepest, like Lanfear, were blocked from the DO's protection but protected from the wheel's turning by the seal containing them, and seemed to be unable to dream.

-While as you progress "upwards", for lack of a better word, they are then able to dream but still protected from the Wheel's turnings, I think Demandred but I cannot remember for sure.

-Then you progress to the point where the seal is too thin to protect you from the Wheel's turnings but still thick enough to block the DO's protection from being able to help you, Aginor and Balthamel.

-Then you come to those who were barely caught in the seal , Ishamael, the seal did not block the Wheel's turnings but it also was not thick enough to block the DO's protection so Ishamael did not age, but his body was still caught in the seal.

Otherwise Ishamael would have no body left, well maybe a skeleton covered in crusty leather, and would have had to hold the Illusion of his former self for all of the first three books. We know that he doesn't though because when Rand kills him the Illusion should have disappeared but it doesn't. The corpse rots extremely fast, but that's it.

[Jument Logos]

maybe its just something i missed in KoD, but why does that WikiWot slayer article say that Rand is one of Tigraine's sons?

 

I don't remember any of the wise ones mentioning that. see, i always thought that Beren taking Isam while fleeing Malkier, was her bearing Isam as a child, and ending up in the Waste because of the Trollocs, then she becomes a maiden and goes to war and dies in birth on dragonmount. making rand lan's brother, i thought, can someone clarify what the story behind Rand's parents is?

[deadlygleeman13]

maybe its just something i missed in KoD, but why does that WikiWot slayer article say that Rand is one of Tigraine's sons?

 

I don't remember any of the wise ones mentioning that. see, i always thought that Beren taking Isam while fleeing Malkier, was her bearing Isam as a child, and ending up in the Waste because of the Trollocs, then she becomes a maiden and goes to war and dies in birth on dragonmount. making rand lan's brother, i thought, can someone clarify what the story behind Rand's parents is?

 

Tigraine was married to Taringail and was a brother to Luc. One aes sedai mention to rand that he looked much like Galad. Tigraine was told by Gitara that she must go to the waste or she would die. After being there for some time she married a clan chief and went over the spine during the aiel war. while passing over Dragonmount, she gave birth to Rand. Therefore, Luc is Rand's Uncle.

[Luckers]

Tigraine was sent into the Waste by Gitara Moroso and told that she musn't return until the Maidens come to the Tar Valon. Once in the Waste Tigraine eventually surcame to exhaustion and dehydration and collapsed, and was found by Amys and a group of maidens. She claimed the name 'Shaiel' which means a woman dedicated, and said nothing further of her past than that she left a son she'd loved and a husband she did not.

 

The Wise Ones did not know Shaiel was Tigraine, it was Rand that made the connection later on when he was told time and again that he looked like her, and heard about her sudden disapreance and all the rest.

 

And it couldn't be Beren anyway. Beren disapeared nearly fifty-five years prior to the beginning of the story, and Shaiel appeared less than twenty-five years prior to the beginning of the story, and was described as a young woman.

 

Edit: Sorry deadly gleeman we must have posted at the same time.

 

I would point out however that Tigraine was never married to Janduin--it was against Aiel custom for a Maiden to marry, and besides it would have defeated the purpose of the prophecy 'born of a maiden wed to no man'--her marriage to Taringail having been dissolved by that time.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I am currently reading Lord of Chaos, and Rand has figured out that Tigraine is his mother. He was worried that he was related to Elayne, and he was asking an Andoran woman about connections between families and marriage when he figures Tigraine is his mother

[billoumm7]

NO! he isn't nothing ever suggested that isam could channel. and bisides even if he could there is much more to suggest that mordin is taim. the forsaken were released before raand gor to the eye of the world, but it never said how long. how do you think ishmael (aka mordin) touched rand, matt, and perin's dreams! and wouldn't lan have remembered him... or Bashire! no perhaps isam can channel the TRUE power but not the ONE power. many darkfriends were able to channel the TRUE power but ONLY dreadlords can channel the ONE power.

[BrainFireBob]

Incorrect. Moghedian informs us via her own POV- so she's not lying, she's thinking it- that only channellers of the OP may be granted access to the TP.