Luc, the figure, Sheriam, the Grey Men and her punishments

[trakand_01]

Hi, I'm not 100% sure how succinct i'll make all of this, I've got a fair few thoughts whirling round in my head and I want to try and share them, and maybe tie them up at the end.

 

Last night I finished WH, and I read some interesting passages. Not least the very few that follow the Forsaken. When Rand is in Far Madding, he has just killed Rochaid, agreed with Kisman that they would flee the Guards, Kisman has been killed by Fain (we later know it to be Fain) and Rand has returned to the inn.

 

We have a very rare (so far in the books) Isam/Luc POV. Isam is in T'A'R, he changes to Luc, and steps out into the real world, into a bedchamber in an inn. He kills two shapes in the bed with a seriously poisoned dagger, and then returns to T'A'R. He finds his 'sponsor of the moment' I think he calls it, waiting for him. This is where my pondering starts.

 

He states that his 'sponsor of the moment';

 

Has done something so that his eyes slide off them, he can't focus on them no matter how he tries

He thinks is 'almost certainly' a man

Has masked their voice

Must be one of the Chosen

 

This is all before the cleansing, but AFTER a meeting where Demandred, Moridin, Graendal, Cyndane, Aran'gar, Osan'gar meet.

 

The grey man thinks how the way that he is unable to look at the figure is not like the Grey Men, and then mentions how he had killed a Grey Man before, in the White Tower.

 

We know of two dead Grey Men in the White Tower - the one which tried to kill Egwene / Nynaeve, and the one which Sheriam found in her bed.

 

What struck me though, was that it was a crossbow bolt which shot past Egwene and Nynaeve, taking some of … Egwene I think, her hair with it, nicking her ear. They went back to find the Grey Man dead. Now,  we have seen Grey Men since then, but they have all had a knife, never a crossbow.

 

We also know of a Forsaken who likes to mask her voice, and her appearance; Mesaana, when she is appearing to Alviarin. Granted it is important that Alviarin does not know Mesaana, but she is the first one we have seen do it; Demandred, Graendal, they are both quite open at keeping their appearances, or at least adopting a visible human appearance when meeting people.

 

I came up with a theory, please feel free to pick it apart at will, I am very aware that there are big holes in it, but I'm just playing with it.

 

I wondered if…

 

Luc was sent my Mesaana and shot the crossbow bolt at Egwene and Nynaeve, and killed the Grey Man.  I do not know why Mesaana would want to keep N/E alive, but perhaps she did.

 

Sheriam obviously became involved, and Mesaana had a dead grey (wo)man laid in her bed as a 'keep your nose out' kind of thing. It strikes me that it could be a 'if you interfere, this could be you - dead in your bed'.

 

It was Mesaana who appeared to Luc in T'A'R, disguised as we know she can do, masking her voice and her appearance. She has a reason to do this; as far as she was aware, they were still under the 'keep LTT alive' agreement, because she (and Semirhage) hadnt attended the previously mentioned Forsaken meeting where Moridin told them to 'kill him if you have to'. We know that Elza is a Black sister; perhaps she could be telling Mesaana where Rand was?

 

Then I got to thinking about Sheriam's … manipulation. It seemed to me that it would be incredibly unlucky had she managed to fall afoul of two separate Forsaken. I wondered, could her beatings be linked to the grey man and Luc?

 

My personal theory is that it is Halima who is beating Sheriam, mainly based around the fact that when we see her first beating (the first one that we are told about) she doesn’t know there is anyone there, until it is too late, yet the person wraps her up in flows of Air, which meanst they can channel. If they were channeling Saidar, she would have sensed them before entering her tent. It is possible that it was a male channeler, but Sheriam thinks how she wished she had never spoken to anyone in the tower. My theory is that she let slip something to Delana, which in turn meant she had as good as told Aran'gar.

 

I'm trying to tie this all together here, but it's slipping away from me into two separate things…

 

To lay them out again, my basics here are;

 

I think that Luc killed the grey man that was (we think) searching for Egwene and Nynaeve, and I think he was sent my Mesaana. When Sheriam became involved I think Mesaana put a dead Grey Woman in her bed as a 'keep your nose out' message.

 

I think that the apparition which showed itself to Luc is Mesaana, regardless of the fact he thought it was a man. Mesaana is very good at disguising herself as we know from her appearances to Alviarin. I don’t know how she knew Rand was in Far Madding, but I would wager on an as-yet undiscovered darkfriend, or Elza.

 

I cant help but wonder if Sheriam's beatings have something to do with Luc.

 

One other thing, what if the Grey Man that E/N found dead HADNT been sent to kill them at all. Luc killed it (I think) but the fact that it was there, doesn’t mean it was there to kill them. The fact that the crossbow bolt nearly hit them doesn’t mean it was aimed at them; crossbow bolts are powerful, it could quite easily have been aimed somewhere in the near-distance and continued to thunk into the wall by them.

 

Thanks for reading all of this, I know its' a bit higgldy-piggledy and incomplete, and based on my own conspiracy theories but please do let me know your thoughts.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Personally I think it was Tai who sent Luc/Isam although it is purely a hunch

[trakand_01]

who sent him to kill what they thought was Rand and Min, you mean? That would mean he had powers other than what we think, if he can appear to Luc in such a way.

 

One other thing I noticed, after leaving Rand in the alleyway, after Rochaid is killed and before Fain slashes him with the poisoned dagger, Kisman thinks about 'orders', specifically from Demandred, and also about Taim. He thinks of them very clearly, saying that Taim ordered Rand killed, and then Demandred had given orders to kill Rand "as though he had no idea Taim had given the order". A conclusion I made here - in the Forsaken meeting when Graendal says that Aran'gar had the responsibility of watching Rand 'you and Demandred', I thik that people assumed this was Demandred, through Taim. I think he has more darkfriends in the BT than Taim knows about.

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

That being said it would probably more likely be Demandred than Taim, seeing as weve seen Demandred in T'A'R before, so maybe it was Demandred. I dont think it was Mesaana though.

[MystErikEry]

What struck me though, was that it was a crossbow bolt which shot past Egwene and Nynaeve, taking some of … Egwene I think, her hair with it, nicking her ear. They went back to find the Grey Man dead. Now,  we have seen Grey Men since then, but they have all had a knife, never a crossbow.

 

Actually, didn't a grey man shoot at Rand (and miss) when he was in the Borderlands before finding the Eye of the World?

 

Also, I think Slayer uses a bow, not a crossbow. :)

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

that was after TEOTW

[trakand_01]

So far in the books apart from slayer in the wolf dream chasing perrin, i've only seen Luc, and he used a poisoned dagger.

 

Something else that i've just remembered and can't figure out. Luc thinks to himself how he particularly enjoyed killing the Aes Sedai in.... I'm sorry I dont have the books, but I think it was Tanchico. Again i can't remember the events perfectly, but was this Adeleas and Ispan? He says that it was actually Isam who did it but he remembers it.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

So far in the books apart from slayer in the wolf dream chasing perrin, i've only seen Luc, and he used a poisoned dagger.

UNQUOTE

 

Slayer IS Luc/Isam. Isam killed whichever Aes Sedai it was but Luc also remembers it as they share the same body, they also share the same memories regardless of who is in control of the body. It is like one mind with 2 faces and 2 personalities

[trakand_01]

Yes i understand that, I was commenting that we see all 3 personalities - individually luc and isam, and amalgamated as slayer in the wolf dream.

 

I was commenting that we had seen 'slayer' or 'luc' or whatever we want to call him, uses more weapons than a bow, so it is not out of consideration to think he may pick up a crossbow.

[Elwinn Taron]

Isam/Luc kills the two Aes Sedai in the prison in the Stone in Tear.  The one, Amico, I think, is the one Egwene stilled, the other is Joiya.  He nailed their tongues to the door before he killed them.

[Mr Ares]

Yes i understand that, I was commenting that we see all 3 personalities - individually luc and isam, and amalgamated as slayer in the wolf dream.

There are only two personalities. Luc and Isam. The wolves call him Slayer, partly because of his habit of, well, slaying and also because they didn't really get close enough to ask his name (or if they did, actually asking was not a priority). When we see him in the Wolf Dream in TSR, he is Isam.

[aussie_ashaman123]

I think it was Demandred who sent Slayer after Rand/Min. I dont know how he found them, this was before Elza knew where he was. Demandred has massive hate for Rand, and the order "kill him if its necessary" generally isnt permission to send an assassin after him.

 

Ishamael probably sent the grey man after N/E, he was the one who gave the orders for them the be shipped off the the Seanchan, and probably the ones who sent Liadrin and her cronies off. Very likely, he sent them to get rid of them, knowing they were necessary to Rand in some way. The grey man dead in Sheriams bed was probably a warning to all the White Tower, Look How Safe You Are

[Corbett]

i cant remember when sheriam found the greyman in her bed. could someone remind me.

[Elwinn Taron]

We never see the scene where Sheriam finds the dead gray man in her bed.  We only hear about it when Suian tells Nynaeve.

[deadlygleeman13]

i cant remember where ifound this but i dont think Luc can be any of the chosen because he is Tigraines brother.

[trakand_01]

I found this, in the Tar Valon library, which is an excerpt from the Dark Prophecy, in TGH;

 

"Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are."

 

Is it just me, or does that ring of another prophecy (the right hand left hand one, which mentions the Hunt) and Min's viewing of Rand and another, plus the 'to live, you must die' prophecy...?

 

I wonder if that other prophecy, at the front of CoT, refers to Slayer / Isam / Luc's hunt - this prophecy certainly seems to refer to them as being on a hunt, as the Shadow's hounds - and not the Darkhounds as I initially thought?

[The Lost One]

Good catch, I could see Luc and Isam being the ones that "falter" and "stray", as stated in that other prophecy. 

 

 

edit....

 

We were talking about two threads here, so here is a copy of part of the other thread that has that prophecy..

 

At the beginning of each book as we know, there is a prophecy. At the front of CoT, the prophecy seems to relate to the DO.

 

And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight,

and all that is, all that was,

and all that will be shall be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.