Elyas - His History?

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Apologies if this has been done before.

 

Just found something during my re-read. I've just started New Spring.

 

The below happens when everyone's favourite Blue is walking through the Green Ajah's quarters. She's delivering a note on behalf of the Amy. Seat. She walks around a corner and sees two men (we can assume they're warders as they're mentioned in a para which is talking about Greens and their boys) practicing with staves. They're watched over a Green Aes Sedai (we can assume she's their AS.)

 

New Spring, Chp. 7, The Itch, pg. 115:

 

Rina Hafden, who somehow made a square face lovely and a stocky build both elegant and graceful, was urging them on with a wide smile, calling, "Well struck Waylin! Oh, very well struck, Elyas!" For size they might have been twins, though one was dark and clean-shaven, the other fair with a short beard.

 

Emphasis is mine.

 

Hmmmm.

 

Have we heard of Rina Hafden in the main series?

 

We know Elyas was a warder, that he thinks "killing warders is a bad thing" which might imply he's done it himself, that he's a little twitchy about running into Aes Sedai and that Aes Sedai don't appreciate people screwing them around. I don't believe he's still bonded as I can't recall anything to indicate a little bundle of feelings in his head etc.

 

Am I right in thinking that Lan has met Elyas at some point...?

 

Has anyone found anything else out about the old wolfman?

[trakand_01]

I love Elyas, I think he's a wonderful character. I dont think we've seen Rina before, but we know that Elyas is a renegade Warder; he wasnt released, he fled (not sure where we know that from, but it's my general understanding).

 

I can't think of a point in our story where Lan and Elyas have met, but I'm pretty sure they would have done at some point. We know that Elyas is constantly wary of any Aes Sedai, just in case one of them is Rina. He doesnt shirk the company of Aes Sedai and Warders though, as we see when he joins Perrin just before Faile is taken; he actually goes out to search with Seonid and Masuri's warders. They refer to him as 'Machera'.

[safwd]

Yep, Elyas was an very much is a Warder. He even states at one point that if his Rina finds him she is going to be VERY upset. I believe he is able to mask the bond with perhaps help from the wolf connection.

I seem to remember, though i might be mistaken, that Lan says that he was taught by Elyas when he was still a normal Warder, and even if that isnt true he still certainly knows him because he questioned Perrin about the name like he recognized it.

Elyas is one of my favorite characters in the books, i wish he was in them more often.

[trakand_01]

Now that you mention it, I do remember Lan asking about Elyas.

 

How does the Warder process happen... I remember Elayne bonded Birgitte whilst the woman was still unconscious, and i dont think Rand had much input to give when his women bonded him...

 

Surely Rina could just un-bond Elyas if she wanted to? There must be a reason she doesnt... his bond keeps him strong and adds to her strength, surely. Perhaps there's a reason she maintains the bond?

[Predic]

 

 

 

Surely Rina could just un-bond Elyas if she wanted to? There must be a reason she doesnt... his bond keeps him strong and adds to her strength, surely. Perhaps there's a reason she maintains the bond?

 

the reason she doesn't un bond him is two fold.

          1) As a green she is very protective of her warder, she would prob

             see his fleeing as a betrayal of her(did she even know about the

             fact he was becoming a wolf brother, its hard to believe she

             didnt) and maybe a sign he is a darkfriend(the fear of that prob

             made him flee in the first place)

 

 

          2)as we have often heard the white tower isnt finished with you

            until it says so wether you like it or not. So on general

            principals alone she wouldnt let him go.

 

 

[trakand_01]

I would also imagine that 'Elyas Machera' is quite a notorious name; he's a renegade warder, something that doesnt happen very often. Lan speaks of him, but neither Seonid nor Masuri, nor Annoura (I had forgotten about her) or their warders say anything to him. I appreciate that maybe for example Annoura hasnt been back to the tower for many years, doesnt know what happened, but surely Seonid and Masuri would?

 

I can't imagine they would let him just run around, when they know that he deserted his Sister. They surely feel he is 'bad', but yet the Warders seem to show him respect, following his lead when they go to hunt for Faile.

 

What did Lan say when Perrin mentioned Elyas? I forget. I seem to think though that it may be something about thinking he was dead. Perhaps Elyas ran, and rather than tell everyone her warder had deserted her, Rina played the 'widowed' Sister... Although her other Warder would certainly have been aware that she was not mourning, through the bond. Maybe she told everyone he had died, either to protect her own dignity, or to protect Elyas in his flight?

 

... this is an addition about 20 seconds after i added the first bit.

 

I'm an idiot. I've just realised that if she DID do that, she's Black because she'd be lying otherwise!

[mikey sedai]

If I remember rightly....and it's not always the case, Rina is now a Sitter in the Tower.

[el Nynaeve]

We have indeed seen Rina in the series, in CoT, when Elaida meets with a number of Sitters to discuss the rebel AS. She doesn't say much, but she's there. Rina is also mentioned as having been raised to Sitter for the Green in the Tower after the split. :)

 

Lan has met Elyas, yes, as he tells Perrin that Elyas was his teacher and that the Reds tried to gentle him when they found out about the wolves. Lan also mentions that ELyas killed two warders when he fled.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

We know that Elyas is constantly wary of any Aes Sedai, just in case one of them is Rina. He doesnt shirk the company of Aes Sedai and Warders though, as we see when he joins Perrin just before Faile is taken; he actually goes out to search with Seonid and Masuri's warders. They refer to him as 'Machera'.

 

Hmmmm. Well, the majority of Warders are pretty pragmatic, given that Elyas seems to be seen as being harder than coffin nails, I'd think that most Warders would be happy following him. Maybe he still counts as a card-carry member of the Gaidin association ... you know, the one where they all gather and bitch about their wards.  ::)

 

If I remember rightly....and it's not always the case, Rina is now a Sitter in the Tower.

 

Wow, that's an impressive bit of WOT knowledge.  ;D Hmmmm ... do we think anything'll come of this? Personally, I can't see it.

 

Surely Rina could just un-bond Elyas if she wanted to? There must be a reason she doesnt... his bond keeps him strong and adds to her strength, surely. Perhaps there's a reason she maintains the bond?

 

Hmmmm ... I was under the impression that you have to be quite close to each other to do the whole bonding thing. If he's able to mask himself he's probably managed to get away from her. I can't agree with the idea that she'd keep him just to tie a thread to him.

 

I'm chuffed. I appear to have added something to the communal pool of knowledge. *Does a little dance* But I'm sure someone's picked up on the reference in New Spring before. *Stops dancing, stands in the corner and puts on the special hat again*

 

[trakand_01]

The one with the big D on the front? I know it well.

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

The one with the big D on the front? I know it well.

 

"No, Parks. The answer is not "Well it's legal in Botswana." You know where to go. Perkins, give the idiot the hat and rejoin the class. And remember, one does not eat what one finds up ones nose."

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

I'm an idiot. I've just realised that if she DID do that, she's Black because she'd be lying otherwise!

 

Ahhhh... but she could be doing the whole "I know I know what's going on, but I'm going to make you think you know what I know and think, you'll think you know, but it'll just be what I want to you think" thing. I think.  ;)

 

You know, the whole "Did Verin lie" thing. (Let's not go there...)

[JenLenaMom]

Actually, the AS can mask the bond not vice versa.  And what happens between a AS and her warder is between the AS and her warder.  It goes along with the whole don't meddle with a sister in public. 

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Actually, the AS can mask the bond not vice versa.  And what happens between a AS and her warder is between the AS and her warder.  It goes along with the whole don't meddle with a sister in public. 

 

Rand can mask Alanna quite well. It's possible other Warders can do the same.

 

Not too sure about the second part. It looks as if it's common knowledge that Elyas has done a runner. At least the Gaidin are aware.

 

Given that a., it's entirely possible he killed other warders, and b., that he was either a DF or had some sort of freaky One Power/AOL thing going on, I'd be amazed if his ward managed to keep it all hush hush, especially as she was Green Ajah. I could see the entire Ajah having a fit over that one.

[Mr Ares]

If I remember rightly....and it's not always the case, Rina is now a Sitter in the Tower.

You certainly remember right in this case: http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/r/rina.html

As for why Elyas is still a Warder:

Week 13 Question: Is the White Tower currently aware of any way to completely dissolve/undo the bond between an Aes Sedai and her Warder so that the link no longer exists and all the positive and negative effects of the bond are removed?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Yes, they are. It is called releasing a Warder, and an Aes Sedai who is very old or injured so badly that she knows she is going to die will, if she has the strength, release him so he doesn't suffer from her death. This does require the two of them to be together, and a little more time that laying on the bond. If they are physically apart, or she doesn't have enough time or strength remaining, touch on him.

 

It has also been used to get rid of a Warder who proved to be unsuitable in some way, such as a man who is discovered to be a thief or who takes reckless chances, a fighter of duels who won't stop without the bond being used to force him. No sister is going to want a Warder who will risk getting himself killed, with all the attendant results to her, for no very good reason.

 

Although use of the bond in that way (controlling) was not unknown in the past, it came to be regarded as a form of Compulsion to use it so except in the slightest forms. Besides, using the bond to control a Warder all the time is a lot of work. An Aes Sedai wants somebody who can watch her back and keep it safe, not somebody she has to work on all the time. (Which is one of the reasons Aes Sedai stopped bonding men against their will. Not ethical concerns or ethical growth, I'm afraid; it was just not very practical really) Better simply to release the fellow who can't measure up and find another who will.

 

By the by, releasing a Warder except for cause (the Aes Sedai's imminent death, his own unsuitability) or because he has asked for release is something that JUST IS NOT DONE! It would gain the sister considerable opprobrium from other sisters. A sister certainly would be looked at askance if she released a Warder who was dying, for example, just to avoid the effects on her of his death. When an Aes Sedai bonds a Warder, she is expected to buy in for the full ride. For that matter, releasing him for unsuitability is considered to reflect on the sister's judgement. She should have known better about him from the start.

So, she can't dissolve the bond without him present, and she wouldn't anyway because it goes against custom.

[Luckers]

Rand can mask Alanna quite well. It's possible other Warders can do the same.

 

Actually he can't. With enough distance he can lower the sensitivity so that it just tells him a direction, but he can't mask it.

 

Given that a., it's entirely possible he killed other warders, and b., that he was either a DF or had some sort of freaky One Power/AOL thing going on, I'd be amazed if his ward managed to keep it all hush hush, especially as she was Green Ajah. I could see the entire Ajah having a fit over that one.

 

He did kill Warders, and knowledge about Wolf Brotherhood is slightly more wide spread these days than it was at the time of his escape.

 

Wow, that's an impressive bit of WOT knowledge.  Hmmmm ... do we think anything'll come of this? Personally, I can't see it.

 

Of Rina being a Sitter? She's one of the two young Sitters, angled at being swept aside when the Tower reunites. Other than that....

[The Dragon Champion]

I may be wrong, haven't done any research on this one. Does Elyas not tell Perrin he killed warders? Im pretty sure it happened when Perrin first met him, he says something along the lines of the red ajah tried to gentle him, and being a wolfbrother has nothing to do with the power, so gentling would've done nothing, but he didn't want the reds messing with him, so he escaped, but during his escape he had to kill two warders or something? Them trying to gentle him and his killng warders would make the whole thing pretty widespread knowledge I think.

[JenLenaMom]

Actually, the AS can mask the bond not vice versa.  And what happens between a AS and her warder is between the AS and her warder.  It goes along with the whole don't meddle with a sister in public. 

 

Rand can mask Alanna quite well. It's possible other Warders can do the same.

Rand can channel, remember Min and Birgitte try to mask their bonds during Rand and Elayne's escapade and it didn't work, however it worked for Avi.

 

 

[Galad]

Actually, the AS can mask the bond not vice versa.  And what happens between a AS and her warder is between the AS and her warder.  It goes along with the whole don't meddle with a sister in public. 

 

Rand can mask Alanna quite well. It's possible other Warders can do the same.

Rand can channel, remember Min and Birgitte try to mask their bonds during Rand and Elayne's escapade and it didn't work, however it worked for Avi.

 

 

 

Rand cannot mask Alanna. He has never been able to do so. And the fact that Alanna didn't ask him to mask their bond when he was sexing up Min during their convo in WH (in which she briefly laments the difficulty of maintaining a partially-masked bond while he and Min are intimate) suggests that it cannot be done on the bondee's end.

 

Also, if the bonded person could mask the bond, I'm sure Toveine would have done so while Gabrelle and Logain were having some private time (during the CoT prologue, I believe?).

[Bazzles]

Elyas has indeed killed warders before, decided I'd be useful for once and dug this up:

 

Book: TEotW, Chapter: Wolfbrother

 

"I don't hold with Aes Sedai. The Red Ajah, those that like hunting for men who mess with the One Power, they wanted to gentle me, once. I told them to their faces they were Black Ajah; served the Dark One, I said, and they didn't like that at all. They couldn't catch me, though, once I got into the forest, but they did try. Yes, they did. Come to that, I douvt any Aes Sedai would take kindly to me, after that. I had to kill a couple Warders. Bad business that, killing Warders. Don't like it."

 

There ya go. =)

[Southwick]

Interesting

[BrainFireBob]

The most common theory I'm familiar with is that the Greens think Elyas is the prophesied "Wolf King," and that is why he is allowed to run free and why Rina has not sought to release him- and also why she is now one of the Sitters hand-picked by Adelorna, the Green Captain-General. The Greens are preparing themselves for their political move to go fight Tarmon Gai'don, if you read the Tower chapters closely. Adelorna is behind the Ajah heads meeting.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Didnt Elyas teach Lan when he was a Warder?

[Luckers]

Yes he did.

 

The most common theory I'm familiar with is that the Greens think Elyas is the prophesied "Wolf King," and that is why he is allowed to run free and why Rina has not sought to release him- and also why she is now one of the Sitters hand-picked by Adelorna, the Green Captain-General. The Greens are preparing themselves for their political move to go fight Tarmon Gai'don, if you read the Tower chapters closely. Adelorna is behind the Ajah heads meeting.

 

Unlikely. Based on the circumstances of hisleaving i see nothing of the sort being a part of their thinking. Such action served only to alienate him. As to why he is allowed to run free... actually finding him would prove incredibly difficult. The bond fades over time--currently Rina can merely tell that he is alive, nothing more... nothing about direction certainly.

 

Rina was selected for the same reason all the other Too-Young Sitters were selected. To be swept aside when the Halls unite--or so the Ajah Heads hoped.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Unlikely. Based on the circumstances of hisleaving i see nothing of the sort being a part of their thinking. Such action served only to alienate him. As to why he is allowed to run free... actually finding him would prove incredibly difficult. The bond fades over time--currently Rina can merely tell that he is alive, nothing more... nothing about direction certainly.

 

Rina was selected for the same reason all the other Too-Young Sitters were selected. To be swept aside when the Halls unite--or so the Ajah Heads hoped

UNQUOTE

 

I think I must have missed something here. Whats this about too-young sisters? And surely if someone was to bond a Wolfbrother they wouldnt have picked someone they were going to sweep them aside. Why would they sweep someone bonded to a Wolfbrother aside when the Tower reunites? And how did Rina know the tower would be broken as it is way back then? As far as I know there werent prophecies about the Tower being broken until after the main books started unless theres something in News Spring, which I havent read.