Why all of the hatred toward Elayne?

[wvlr]

Right on the money.  I could forgive the bad plan.  It is her attitude afterwards that, the complete lack of acceptance of responsibility for her blunder, that I can't forgive.

 

Exactly!    There have been PLENTY of bad plans in the books, so I did not really see the need for another.    But her attitude afterwards really chomps my nerves.    Total lack of remorse for all the people she got killed and no thoughts to her being responsible for them.

 

[aevogt]

I've got a feeling we'll see a chapter in AMoL devoted to her penance.

[Dbob]

Well, just saying that “Elayne is a Princess so she thinks different,” really doesn’t help her case much. Of course unlike some of the posters, I can buy arrogance and self centered, self-importance from aristocrats in any universe. But I can’t as easily forgive the bad planning and the lack of anything resembling sound decision making, and that failing isn’t just restricted to this. Being someone who has supposedly had the education and training for ruling a kingdom, her utter lack of anything resembling strategic thinking is a huge indictment against her. If that’s the best she can do, one feels for Andor.

 

A whole lot of the women in the series have this odd tendency to flit around in high dudgeon, <i><b>sniffing</b></i> at people for the most insignificant things, they then run off and make the stupidest – most obvious mistakes, because they refuse to see reason. That behavior in and of itself that is quite frankly petty, and somewhat immature coming from anyone – and while I can buy that in village girls of scant education, experience, and understanding of the responsibilities of government, well, Elayne is none of those things. I don’t know if the Author meant to write her that way or not, but I have to say that the complete obtuse, boneheaded, lack of perspective and intelligence she displays is distinctly off-putting. Berelain, who she thinks is a trollop, is a far better ruler than Elayne.

 

For me this just pushed my tolerance for her character over the edge. It’s of a piece with her complete ingratitude for Rand saving her throne, and also her weird need to take his school in Caemlyn away from him just because it was his, that was also quite petty frankly.

 

[trakand_01]

As someone who works for the same company (indeed in the same office) as her partner, I can almost understand Elayne's taking down the banners, taking the school off him; she is trying to show everyone 'i'm not just Rand's puppet, I'm making my own decisions' but whether it worked as she'd hoped, i'm not sure.

 

I often wonder at RJ's comparison between Berelain and Elayne. I wonder whether it was intentional.

[Guest cw]

As someone who works for the same company (indeed in the same office) as her partner, I can almost understand Elayne's taking down the banners, taking the school off him; she is trying to show everyone 'i'm not just Rand's puppet, I'm making my own decisions' but whether it worked as she'd hoped, i'm not sure.

 

I often wonder at RJ's comparison between Berelain and Elayne. I wonder whether it was intentional.

 

The fact remains that Elayne would not have a throne if Rand handn't secured it for her.  Elayne might as well acknowledge that because anyone in Caemlyn who possesses half a brain already knows it.  The nobles aren't going to forget meeting with Salidar Aes Sedai plotting to remove Rand from Caemlyn.  Those Aes Sedai aren't going to let anyone forget how they made Caemlyn safe from such a dangerous man.  As a result, if Elayne isn't seen as a puppet of the Dragon Reborn, she will be seen as a puppet of Tar Valon.  She's better off giving credit where it is do than letting someone else claim credit that doesn't belong to them.

[DemandredFO]

The Plan that I think everyone was referring to was in KOD.  She is pregnant and so that maybe clouding her judgement.  I think we'll see a POV from Elayne, in the course of which she realizes how incredibly stupid she was.  If we don't the I will find fault for that.

[Dbob]

For whatever reason, Mother Trakand metaphorically couldn’t pay the mortgage and the bank foreclosed. Rhavin (I think) ruled Andor. There was no rebellion trying to put Elayne on the throne. In fact, Morgase had alienated her supporters to such an extent that none of them wanted another Trakand on the throne. Elayne was in effect an exile, with no army, no support, and no popularity.

 

Then along comes Rand, who ousts Rhavin in Elayne’s name. If you look at the timeline, he tells everyone that he wants Elayne on the throne <i>before</i> Dylin (sp) starts supporting her. Everyone in Andor knew he wanted her on the throne before she even went to Ebou Dar – so if she thinks that she gained the throne independently, well, that’s kind of delusion. Without Rand there would be a King in Andor, or conversely, if Rand took his toys and went home there would be a new royal house in Andor, with little to no one mourning the loss of Trakand. Possibility three, Rand stays in Andor and adds it to his own possessions. Elayne had neither the power, nor the popularity to affect any of this.

 

Rand killed Rhavin, his soldiers kept Andor whole, and kept the throne vacant, then he left to make way for her. He created the possibility for her to take the throne. It <i>was</i> his to give.

 

That said, I can understand why she doesn’t want to be seen as a puppet. I would have removed his banners also – the school I’m afraid is pretty inexcusable, Look at the situation – Rand, this guy you claim to love, is terrified he’s going to kill everyone and destroy everything, plus he’s going mad. So he starts building schools for the specific purpose of trying to mitigate the damage he does. It costs nothing to support that. His schools are not relevant to thrones. So does she support the man she loves, and help him? No way, she snatches it away just because. If I was dating a girl who was that selfish, I wouldn’t be dating a girl who was that selfish, proof that Rand has already gone insane.

 

It’s hard to lead people if they have no respect for you, so I can see why she needs to have a public image of being independent - but even in her POV, a long way from Andor, speaking privately to friends, she gets all adolescent and wants to hate on Rand for saving her bacon. She starts having fits about him “giving” her the throne, way before she even knows the situation on the ground. She shows no gratitude even for the life threatening chance Rand took in going after Rhavin – to avenge <i><b>her</b></i> mother.

 

I don’t know why the Author wrote her character this way, there are a lot of contradictions between her motivations and her actions. She comes across as vain, selfish, self centered in the extreme, incompetent, and even unfeeling. Plus I lump her in with the women in the book who tend to make Rand’s life harder, and his task more difficult, for reasons only a silly teenager would think relevant. That and I find it completely unbelievable that this character is willing to share anything, let alone a guy.

 

BTW, I don't buy the pregnant excuse, if women become so irrational and moody when pregnant that they can't make intelligent command decisions, it's idiocy to let them govern anything unless they can prove they're not pregnant. Which of course means celibacy.

 

Is that really an argument people want to make?

[aussie_ashaman123]

I agree dbob, Rand saved Andor and instead of putting it in his pocket like he has tear, caerhain and illian, hes tried to hold it together for the rightful heir (in his eyes).

 

Andor was his by right of conquest, lets not forget that. He couldve stripped Caemlyn bare had he so chosen, and not one ruler would've said he wasnt allowed to. But he didnt even let the aiel take the 5th they were due.

 

True Elayne needs to be seen as her own person, not a figurehead or a puppet, but you do not do that by irritating the most powerful potential ally you have. There would not have been a war of succession if Elayne allowed Rand to help her with soldiers and ashaman.