Mat: Prince of Ravens AND Destroyer of the Seanchean?

[biabeli]

One of Rand's answers says that for him to live, the south and west must be as one, the east and north be as one and the two as one.

 

So Mat and Tuon get married, Mat takes over the Seanchan (south) and joins up with Perrin (west).

 

The borderlanders (north) catch up with Rand and join him (East).

 

Rand gets together with Mat+Perrin, the two are one and Rand has united everyone agaonst the DO.

[bcxanth]

Actually, that's not one of Rand's answers, it's part of the Prophecies of the Dragon. Though it doesn't say anything about the two being as one.

[Jellybelly]

Actually, it is among the answers he received from the Finns. I believe it is mentioned in the chapter in KoD when he rides into Tear.

[bcxanth]

Actually' date=' it is among the answers he received from the Finns. I believe it is mentioned in the chapter in KoD when he rides into Tear.[/quote']Nope, you're wrong. It comes from aCoS, ch 34, "Ta'veren," p533.

 

The Prophecies said he would bind together the people of every land. "The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south."

Check out the FAQ if you need further proof.

[Jellybelly]

I am most definitely not wrong. I will quote the relevant passage from KoD for you:

 

"One of my questions for the Aelfinn was 'How can I win the Last Battle'".

"A dangerous question to pose," she said quietly, "touching on the Shadow as it does. [...] What was the answer?"

"'The north and east must be as one. The west and south must be as one. The two must be as one.'"

 

Ch. 18: News for the Dragon, p. 395.

 

I never said it was not in ACoS as well, remember.

[bcxanth]

Well then we're both right, and the 'Finns just regurgitated to him something from the prophecies.

[Jellybelly]

Hey, I never denied that it was not in ACoS, as well. :P

[Kaznen]

It's been said on this thread that Mat plans to fight the seanchan. He's not planning on it, but he will fight them if Rand tells him to.

[Jackalyn]

Yeah, Mat dose't neccisarily want to fight the Seachchan but he will if neccicary. About the male A'dam I don't think that Tuon know's about it.

[mightisright]

Mat is planning on fighting the Seanchan although he isn't looking forward too it. He remarks about Aludra dragons that he wants them to be a suprise when the seachan first face them. Planning as in he will almost entirely certainly have to. I think even Rand aside he would resist their rule.

[algspkr]

Look at Tuon, she follows omens, a bird circled Mat's head and she took that as confirmation that she was doing the right thing, a domenae said she would marry a man meeting Mat's description and a very accurate description it was and so she marries him.

[Llewin]

In one of the books' date=' I cannot remember which, it talks almost biblically about how the left hand will falter and the right will stray.

Now, Perrin and Mat are the left and right hands of Rand. Perrin is the left, Mat the right.Why?

Perrin sometimes is used as a different term for "Little Peter", the Rock on which Iesu built his church. Mat, to me, represents Matthew,the one who denied Iesu three times before he was captured o Gethsemane. He was a trickster to say the least.

So could it be that Mat would deny Rand somehow?[/quote']

 

Um... Peter denied Christ three times... not Matthew...

 

Sorry, someone already addressed that... But hey lets keep our history accurate atleast.. :)

[Graf Ashaman]

About Mat fighting the Seanchan, I belief that not everybody will follow him and Tuon because there are many from the blood who are sheming for power and just because Mat is Rand´s buddy won´t make them follow him.

 

For Tuon and Marath Daman, Tuon must either kill all Suldam and Daman or free them, since she can learn to channel as well.

 

And here I have another idea about Mat: I think Mat can learn to channel. Why I belief so:

 

When Mat was in the White Tower and they healed him from the dagger he could feel when somebody was using the One Power on him.

How about the luck he had with dice and everything, I think he was using the one power to let the dice fall like he needed. You remember Lanfea doing something to him in the White Tower, maybe she opened him for the use of the power... And also Egwene saw him dicing with the Dark One maybe he got fouled by the taint then...

 

About the Seanchan: Remember that they are going to destroy the White Tower and I think Mat will do it because they probably don´t want to hand over the Horn of Valere, Aes Sedai being the way they are, thinking they know everything best...

 

Also I think Mat will invent the cannon with Aludra the Illuminator since she also told him about the bellfounder.

[Llewin]

yeah... I dont think so...

 

Mat could feel them channeling because of the taint of the dagger, the taint from shadar logoth... Remember that Ordeith/Mordeth hates channelers as much as 'the dark one'...

 

Mat's luck is one of the ways him being Ta'veren effects him...

 

Egwene seeing Mat dicing with the Dark One in a dream is because Mat is constantly taking his chances against the dark...

 

etc.

 

etc.

[Graf Ashaman]

I agree. but what about the other things I wrote? And if Mat was affected by the dagger from SL, can he control a Fade as well, or is he somehow more sensitive to rooting out Darkfriends? Because Fain knows a Darkfriend on sight. And what was it that Lanfea did to Mat?, or tried to do? Any idea?

[Llewin]

OK The other stuff :)

 

About Mat fighting the Seanchan, I belief that not everybody will follow him and Tuon because there are many from the blood who are sheming for power and just because Mat is Rand´s buddy won´t make them follow him.

 

Thats definitely a possibility however I think its unlikely as we've seen that the Seanchan are VERY careful about following protocol "in the public eye" even if they are scheming... Suroth wasnt even willing to try to kill Tuon until a forsaken directly told her it was sanctioned...

 

But not impossible...

 

For Tuon and Marath Daman, Tuon must either kill all Suldam and Daman or free them, since she can learn to channel as well.

 

I am not sure about this... those are definitely options, but we're dealing with a VERY strong cultural belief system here, and although Tuon will have the power to officially re-write the laws regarding channelers, IF someone helps her have a change of heart (remember at this point she acknowledges the possibility that she might be able to learn to channel but says it doesnt matter because she chooses not to, and therefore has not become a detestable 'marath'damane'...)

 

I'm curious to see how that whole thing turns out, also didnt some of the sul'dam get released back in to seanchan territory after they had realized they could channel?

 

About the Seanchan: Remember that they are going to destroy the White Tower and I think Mat will do it because they probably don´t want to hand over the Horn of Valere, Aes Sedai being the way they are, thinking they know everything best...

 

Well we dont know for sure that the Seanchan are going to destroy the tower, only that they are going to attack it... Egwene's dream didnt have a 'conclusion' just a warning of attack... But it is definitely possible Mat could be involved (ESPECIALLY if he think Egwene has been kidnapped lol...)

 

Also I think Mat will invent the cannon with Aludra the Illuminator since she also told him about the bellfounder.

 

yeah I think this one is a forgone conclusion... the "dragons" Aludra wants to make are basically simple cannons, much like the early artillery used in the late middle ages.

[krystalline]

Would the Borderlanders joined with the Aiel = the north tied to the east?

 

Then with Matt leading the Seanchan (South), as the husband of the new Empress, and Perrin with his banner of Manetheren (West) joining up, they can join with Rand to be as one.

[krystalline]

Oh... and to answer the OP.

 

Mat is the Prince of Ravens because he's married to the Empress. He's the destroyer because he's either going to let the secret that sul'dam are the same as damane or he's going to lead them to battle that is going to decimate them.

 

I think its really going to tick them off if they find out their Empress is a damane. After all, in WH

I get the idea that its not the norm for the royal Seanchan family to be tested for sul'dam.

[Luckers]

I don't actually see Mat fighting the Seanchan. I think the Seanchan position is going to be changed because of the alliance with Rand, and he will never be forced into that situation.

[far shores]

You have to remember that the seanchan have never seen trollocs; there aren't any over there. i think that if Tuon could see trollocs and the general destruction that they cause and the way that they would really mess up the world if they got hold of it, or if somebody told her that it was one of the forsaken who had killed her family, sent her empire into dissent etc. then she might turn and form a truce with rand. Otherwise i just can't see her doing it. i don't think she's just do it for love of Mat, because, well, she doesn't seem that type. She'd have to be given a decent reason to ally herself and her armies to Rand (under mat's control of course) otherwise there's nothing in it for her.

Afterwards, of course, she can carry on with her 'invade everybody' plan, but i think with the right persuasion she'd help rand. But only at the last moment of course, for dramatic effect and all that. :lol:

[joeybsmash]

mat will probably be the arch-general in the last battle and write the main battle plan. tuon will allow the seanchan under his control because he is her husband. i think of mat as more like Eisenhower or Alexander the Great. he will fight for sure, but his real place is on the hill over looking the battle and directing with the Horn of Valere. also, where in real mythology do you think the horn comes from?

[Llewin]

The most obvious answer to me anyway (though I dont consider christian theology to fall under the category of myth simply because there is a preponderance of 1st and 2nd person accounts which keep it accurate to what it was 2000 years ago)...would be the horn the angel Gabriel sounds at Armageddon to announce the second coming of Christ.