Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Why are the Seals weakening?


Wayhey
 Share

Recommended Posts

TBh, can´t find any clear evidence either way, but....

 

So, the general of the light, who considers this to be the one chance to save the world, would not bring his sa´angreal(the most powerful one in existence cept the choedan cal(and possibly one other)) when he goes off for the event that will decide the worlds fate, despite knowing that he propably will haveto contest with the DO.

 

Personally, I kinda think he went mad during the event, not before it ;).

 

He was rather crazy after, he may have dropped it anywhere, and the AS in the hall of the servants may have found it through foretelling or any other way.

 

The pattern needed Callandor in Tear. Its not that strange if it was found by someone. The even in the HOS is propably a while later then when ishy visits LTT anyway.

 

//dyring

Link to comment
Share on other sites

would not bring his sa´angreal(the most powerful one in existence cept the choedan cal(and possibly one other)) when he goes off

 

I could be wrong but Callandor was not LTT's personal sa'angreal and I don't believe there are any statements that state that it was.  It was a sa'angreal made during the war of power but it is never stated that it was expressly for LTT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Ring of Tamyrlin might have been LTT's own personal sa'angreal as leader of the Light forces, but we don't know for sure if it is one.  The other issue is that Callandor was flawed, and those that made it probably would have known that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According the expanded glossary in "To the Blight," the Ring of Tamyrlin was an object of the One Power created by the first person who learned to channel

 

I was thinking of something else. Yeah, I guess the Ring of Tamyrlin was an angreal/sa'angreal of some sort. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course we don't know. But that is a reasonble line of speculation to take. Shai'tan wishes to break out, seals & patch prevent Him from doing so, so he tries to break them. The first seal we see in EOTW is broken when we first see it. The evil feel would come from a certain evil divinity putting strain on them, the brittleness is when they are near breaking (it's taken a long time to get this far). Maybe you should have incorporated that line of speculation into your original post.

 

To Tyrell, I don't move fast, I'm actually prescient. I pretype my responses before the actual topics are posted, and just copy and paste them in place. To Wayhey, what possible connection could there be between an evil god who wishes to destroy the world and the person who is supposed to save the world from said god, according to prophecy? It's absurd, it would be like there was some sort of "Pattern" which was capable of interfering and causing prophesied saviours to appear in time for when they will be needed to save the world.....

 

The question is how does the "evil divinity" putting strain on the Seals, and what connection does that process have with Rand fulfilling his role at the same time.  RJ has been pretty big on causes and unexpected consequences (you could call it a theme), and this appears to be some pretty significant coincidence in need of an explanation, especially since there really has been no explanation.  Furthermore, IMO this is exactly the type of explanation that can appear in the last book of a series because it could be the key to solving everything.  The Pattern itself is very concerned with cause and effect, and RJ is constantly showing us how decisions made and actions work into a chain reaction of consequences even thousands of years down the road.  Maybe we will find out the answers and maybe we will be left wondering.  You clearly aren't wondering, but what it comes down to is that you are content not to have a clearer answer (i.e. evil god explains it all).  I could live with it if no connection is made, but I would be disappointed, I think.  I guess we are just going to have to RAFO.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According the expanded glossary in "To the Blight," the Ring of Tamyrlin was an object of the One Power created by the first person who learned to channel

 

I was thinking of something else. Yeah, I guess the Ring of Tamyrlin was an angreal/sa'angreal of some sort. 

 

It might just be one of those things we may never find out about.  It may or may not have been an agreal, sa'angreal or ter'angreal.  I think there still wouldn't be a major shortage of angreal during the War of Power, but even then, as leader LTT probably had one of those on him at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

     Why 7?  Why not 100+, for each companion?  Perhaps Mr. Ares knows the answer to this, as he always seems to have a wealth of hidden knowledge to draw from.

 

     The only theory I have ever produced is shaky, only due to the previously mentioned unknowns.  Perhaps when LT sprung his trap, the backlash thrown by the Dark One was not to make the male AS go mad (though the byproduct was certainly enjoyable), but instead to attach a finger (for the lack of a better word) on the power that created the seal in the first place.  We know from RJ that power directed at cuellindar strengthens it, but power in the reverse direction might have the opposite effect.  That from a question asked to him, I believe.

 

     If the Dark One could attach a thread of True Power to the seals, and start to pull power from them, over time, they could dissolve.

 

     Again, its not the best of theories, but its the only one that comes to mind... i think the knowledge of WHY the seals are breaking is intrinsic to the last battle itself.

 

That's an interesting theory.  I wish we had more info on the True Power!  As to why there are seven seals, that's easy!  One for each Age (each spoke of the Wheel). :D Ok, we don't know that for sure, but if the number is at all significant then that is likely the reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

would not bring his sa´angreal(the most powerful one in existence cept the choedan cal(and possibly one other)) when he goes off

 

I could be wrong but Callandor was not LTT's personal sa'angreal and I don't believe there are any statements that state that it was.  It was a sa'angreal made during the war of power but it is never stated that it was expressly for LTT. 

 

There is no definite proof. I believe it was, but there are just hints so I can´t really expect everyone else to think the same ;). I think so since that sword would be the most powerful force the light has. since it was made early during the war, its likely it was made for the leader, and even if it wasent, whoever wielded it would either die, and it would propably be given to the leader/person who could use it most efficently. If someone else had it from the start, and they are decently strong, they would be more powerful than LTT and all the forsaken in combat. I think that unlikely.

 

 

I think there is an interview quote where RJ states that the Ring of Tamyrlin isn't a sa'angreal...I'd have to find it though to be sure.

 

There was a thread about that a while back. Basically, since the ring of the tamyrlin was the symbol of office for the leader of the AS, and that leader can be either Male or female, And sa´angreal or angreal can only be used by one gender, its extremely unlikely for it to be one. If its an objekt of power, it would be a ter´angreal.

Myself, I think its just a trinket. Possibly from a specific powerwrought material.

 

//dyring

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought Callandor was made in response to the prophecies, in the early days of the breaking, I recall a note about the lack of a barrier preventing people drawing too much being to do with declining standards, something which wouldn't have been the case untill atleast the later days of the war.

 

Another reason I don't believe that LTT wielded Callandor/that it was meant for him was that in TSR (I recently rewread it, so I should have this right, though with my memory you never can tell) when Rand is getting put into the heads of his ancestors and he walks into the room where some Aes Sedai are preparing The Eye and possibly other prophecy related stuff he sees the sword and wonders what it is, wondering if it's an object of the power, but immediately recognised the Dragon Banner.

 

If it were LTT's it would have been identified with him and the banner, but the guy doesn't recognise it, if LTT had regularily used it or even if it had been regularily used at the end of the war then the guy would have known that it was an object of the power; I atleast think that if an Aes Sedai were holding that thing and it suddenly was filled with bright light as the Aes Sedai started guesturing and dooing major damage/errecting defences/whatever with the power then people would have made the connection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Callandor was made early during the war of power, not in the breaking. That much atleast is fact, comes from the(world of robert jordans TWOT etc) compendium(page 44), and if I remember right, there is also a RJ comment somewhere on it being made during the war, and about how the lowering standards of production was what caused the lack of buffer in it.

 

Secondly, we are talking about a extremely destruktive war. and here ent no tv or internet around, propably no papers. And even if tehre was, we are talking about an Aiel, who purposfully avoid all things violent.

 

There is simply no clear evidence on that as far as I know thou :/

 

//dyring

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Firstly, we should try to remember that sheer strength in the Power is not the be all and end all, so while LTT and calandor may have been very strong having several Aes Sedai placing each seal and working at the same time would likely do the job faster than one guy having to do all 7.

The question is how does the "evil divinity" put strain on the Seals.You clearly aren't wondering, but what it comes down to is that you are content not to have a clearer answer (i.e. evil god explains it all).

I've got 2 quotes for you. 1. The lord moves in mysterious ways. 2. Establish enigmas, not explanations. Put them together and you have your answer. We probably won't get a super in-depth analysis of how Shai'tan (BBHN) broke the seals, and it isn't important. Just accept that Shai'tan (BBHN) has a lot of Power, and we can't be completely sure how He does all the things He does, only that he can do them. Or do you want a comprehensive answer to how He caused the ripples in KOD, or changed the weather, or tainted the source, or any of the other things he has done. We haven't and won't get one, and we shouldn't. "Evil god" is explanation enough, and should be.

 

There ent no tv or internet around, propably no papers. And even if tehre was, we are talking about an Aiel, who purposfully avoid all things violent.

//dyring

Are you sure there were no mass media in the AOL, at least in the early days of the War when they had very advanced technology? And if I were an Aiel, I would still want to keep abreast of the latest events of the War. If my only defense is running away, then I would like to know the best direction to run.

 

//my name here, in case anyone has forgotten it already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There ent no tv or internet around, propably no papers. And even if tehre was, we are talking about an Aiel, who purposfully avoid all things violent.

//dyring

Are you sure there were no mass media in the AOL, at least in the early days of the War when they had very advanced technology? And if I were an Aiel, I would still want to keep abreast of the latest events of the War. If my only defense is running away, then I would like to know the best direction to run.

 

 

There propably was massmedia in AOL, hardly for long into the war thou. and the major parts of it was propably busy with disaster reports ;). If I would haevto guess Id say Callandor was prolly made and given to LTT around when he got command and they started pushing the shadow back, by then there was propably not that many civilian things like media left.

And the dai´shan aiel wouldent run anyway, Remember the 10000 aiel at tsora, diying a few at the time for hours while the sang, trying to make Jaric(hoping I remember the right name there ;)) remember who he was?

 

Tbh, there are stuff talking against the way I think it was. I think its the likely way, not the only possible way.

 

//dyring (yes, I always sign :p)

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There ent no tv or internet around, propably no papers. And even if tehre was, we are talking about an Aiel, who purposfully avoid all things violent.

//dyring

Are you sure there were no mass media in the AOL, at least in the early days of the War when they had very advanced technology? And if I were an Aiel, I would still want to keep abreast of the latest events of the War. If my only defense is running away, then I would like to know the best direction to run.
There propably was massmedia in AOL, hardly for long into the war thou. and the major parts of it was propably busy with disaster reports ;). If I would haevto guess Id say Callandor was prolly made and given to LTT around when he got command and they started pushing the shadow back, by then there was propably not that many civilian things like media left.
Well, I don't know at what point the newspapers, internet, TV (or AOL equivalents of such) broke down, but if they were still around when callandor was made and given to LTT it would probably have been covered. After all, any reasonably intelligent person would use the media for the purposes of propaganda, and say, for example, that they had a brilliant new weapon, which would help win the War, and it was to be wielded by strongest channeler and leader of the Light LTT. But then, what would I know about what the media would print during a drawn out, widespread and destructive war.

And the dai´shan aiel wouldent run anyway, Remember the 10000 aiel at tsora, diying a few at the time for hours while the sang, trying to make Jaric(hoping I remember the right name there ;)) remember who he was?
I said running was their only defence, a view shared by the Tinkers. If someone can't be talked out of harming you, you either get harmed or you get out. They may not run, or they may, but keeping an eye on what's going on is not unreasonable, and could be very useful. Or maybe the Aiel in question was just too busy to have kept up to date with the news - maybe if we'd had a later POV of him talking to his wife she would have known about callandor....And I don't want someone jumping in with "he wasn't married" or somesuch. It wasn't intended to be serious, and those who take it as such will be put up against a wall and shot.

 

Tbh, there are stuff talking against the way I think it was. I think its the likely way, not the only possible way.
Yeah, all sorts of possibilities just waiting to be turned into certainties, and most of them won't be. We could argue forever and still only have our opinions.

 

//dyring (yes, I always sign :p)
Why not just put it in your sig. It would save typing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...