Book of Translation

[Seriodor]

I guess it could work like that. But im curious as to why the Ogier didnt Translate during the Breaking.

[Seriodor]

Or how did the Ogier get across the Endless Sea, to Seandar.

[Guest cwestervelt]

The same way the Aes Sedai who were there when Luthair Paendrag came across got there.  What we have seen of the Age of Legends, at least to me, would indicate that travel between the two continents was probably rather common.

[Seriodor]

That could be it, also it could've just become an island during the Breaking(cause the books say that at some of the deeper parts of the endless sea you can see whole cities uner water)but that doesnt explain why the Ogier didnt translate during the Breaking.

[Gentled Ben]

That, or that ocean wasn't there yet, and the Ogier in what is now Seanchan wre already there. I've always figured that that was the case, in fact, and the same with the Aes Sedai over there.

But im curious as to why the Ogier didnt Translate during the Breaking.

 

So am I. They decided to stick it out during the Breaking, I guess, same as during the Trolloc Wars. If they were going to bail though, I would think that the Breaking would have been the time to do it. I'd be willing to bet that it at least came up in conversation.  ;)

[drovja]

The Ogier strike me as, well, steadfast. I feel like because they were so much more a part of human society in the AOL, they probably felt much closer to the humans, and felt like they owed a debt to try and help them through the Breaking as well as they could. Maybe the current crop of Ogier, because of their isolation in the Stedding, will be the ones to leave our little section of the Pattern.

[TheRedSon]

Maybe they felt the stedding were too important to leave early during the Breaking since it was the only place men who could channel could find sanctuary.

 

Good points about connection to humanity by drovja...  There may have still been Nym around as well.

[Gentled Ben]

The Ogier strike me as, well, steadfast. I feel like because they were so much more a part of human society in the AOL, they probably felt much closer to the humans, and felt like they owed a debt to try and help them through the Breaking as well as they could. Maybe the current crop of Ogier, because of their isolation in the Stedding, will be the ones to leave our little section of the Pattern.

 

So now, it's like "homie dontcha know me?"

[Seriodor]

I guess or maybe they just didnt know who had the book. Im sure that the Breaking was probably bad enough so that they would translate, but all the Ogier were split up. That would support the "it has to be a group thing" idea but if not, it could till be explained by, whoever had the book didn't know how to use it.

[Majsju]

Considering how much trouble they had finding the steddings, what are the odds of them finding a portal stone, with a breaking going on around them?

 

And the group thing of course. It seems from KOD that the idea is that they must all leave, so that they can come to this world the next turning of the wheel.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Not to throw a wrench in the works, but is anyone considering that the Ogier stayed out of a sense of duty?  The War of the Power had not been brought to a really successful conclusion, and the one thing the Ogier seem to be universally ready to fight against is the Shadow.

 

Loial's argument for staying now is that any other world they go to will be in just as much danger if the Shadow wins in Randland.  Surely the Ogier of that time knew that as well ...

[ApostleofJordan]

I guess or maybe they just didnt know who had the book. Im sure that the Breaking was probably bad enough so that they would translate, but all the Ogier were split up. That would support the "it has to be a group thing" idea but if not, it could till be explained by, whoever had the book didn't know how to use it.

 

I would have to agree with this. Maybe it was in one of the Lost Steading. I'm of the opinion that the Ogier would have left during the breaking if they could. There was no threat of the DO breaking loose then (he had just been sealed up) and the main danger was just men channeling. So it would make sense to leave, if only they could.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Portal Stones were created during the age before the Age of Legends. Has anyone thought that that is when the Ogier appeared? Maybe the Ogier, using the book of Translation, created the Portal Stones. I believe this might be similar to something Robert said.

 

But anyways, they would have to have appeared after the nuclear war between Merc (America) and Mosk(Moscow), and that probably happened in the Age before the "First Age," so my theory would make some sense.

[Seriodor]

Btw. What is the Book of Translations. Still not sure if its a ter'angreal or what.

[Seriodor]

Portal Stones were created during the age before the Age of Legends. Has anyone thought that that is when the Ogier appeared? Maybe the Ogier, using the book of Translation, created the Portal Stones. I believe this might be similar to something Robert said.

 

But anyways, they would have to have appeared after the nuclear war between Merc (America) and Mosk(Moscow), and that probably happened in the Age before the "First Age," so my theory would make some sense.

 

Has RJ linked the WoT world to ours?

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Yes, he has.

 

Hold on a sec.

 

Ok, check out this site for info on events that happened in the age prior the the "First Age," or during the "First Age."

[Seriodor]

wow, i didnt see that coming

[Seriodor]

That would meen our legends are from the 6th and 7th ages.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Here, I'll put the quote up for those who are don't feel like following the link:

 

NOTE: In case it isn't obvious, "Mosk" would be Moscow, "Merk" would be America, "spears of fire" would be nuclear missiles, "Elsbet" would be [Queen] Elizabeth, "Anla" would be advice columnist Ann Landers, "Lenn" would be astronaut John Glenn, and "Salya" would be astronaut/teacher Sally Ride. A strong case that the First Age is our own time. Robert Jordan has confirmed these identities in interviews, and notes that the stories told of these characters and their actions have obviously been changed and altered over time

 

But I disagree with them placing our age as the First Age. I think we are in the "Seventh Age," and that a nuclear war causes a "Breaking of the World." Part of Russia receives heavy fire from nuclear warheads, resulting in a "thinness" in the pattern that is eventually exploited by Mierin (Lanfear).

 

Anyways, so after the Breaking by nuclear warfare, human society gradually rebuilds, and is helped along by the introduction of the Ogier species, who create portal stones and hasten the Age of Legends. Around that time, channeling is rediscovered, and it brings us into the Age of Legends.

[Seriodor]

But the Age of Legends was the second age. So for our age to have been the age that created the thinness that Lanfear exploited to make the Bore, we would have had to have been the First Age.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

No, that is not true.

 

Not all ages end with a Breaking. The transition from the First Age to the Age of Legends was done without incident, as far as we know.

[Seriodor]

Then what would seperate them as ages. Not a certain amount of time, I think, but some HUGE event that completely changed life between one age and another. like Nuclear holocaust, or the Breaking.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Huge events don't need to be cataclysmic.  You can have scientific or technological advancements that can completely change the way people live.

[Seriodor]

Then I guess Ealdur could be right, with our event being Nuclear Holocaust, and the seperation between the 1st and 2nd ages being the discovery of the OP.

[Gentled Ben]

RAW posted an interesting argument in another thread about how the Age of Legends might actually be part of the Third Age, or at least what we call the Third Age, rather than the second, and if that's so, then we could indeed be in the First Age (or at least, the Age preceding the Age of Legends)without much difficulty reconciling the books at all. One point in that argument's favor is saying that our age is the age before the AOL, and also, how it says "Called the Third Age by some," indicating possible discrepancy among scholars. I won't recap RAW's argument here, as I'll just screw it up, and I don't remember what thread it was in, but it touched on some of the points mentioned in this thread.