The Oath Rod: Our Savoir from the Breaking!

[drovja]

Call me skeptical, but how can we know the actual ramifications of something like global warming or the Ice caps melting when, as far as the age of the earth is concerned, we have been monitoring such things for such a very short time? I'm not saying we shouldn't be careful with how we treat our planet, I'm just very slow to believe that our scientists are really as good as they seem to think they are.

[VampireGoat]

right no interest in discussing global warming,so im goin back to wot discussion sorry for breaking development

 

As for binding male channelers,dont think i saw anyone mention the name of the device used. If I remeber correctly it was a 'Binding Chair' for anyone who cared. Sammael did mention he could aquire one also, it'd just take a while. At first I thought thats what the unknown ter'angral chair in WT's tower that the anti-black ajah ladies were using was one, then they started hurting things, course it still could be one since they weren't aware of the chairs real use just that it could cause pain.

 

As for my thoughts of using this as a counter-measure. Personally I don't see how it would work. The mind is  a powerful tool, capeable of great things, and even greater in wow due to channeling. I don't think it's wise to underestimate the power of the mind, since we know the mind can conjour any image needed attimes trying to limit this through oaths wouldn't work. Bind them to need an aes sedai permission only lasts until someone starts hallucanating and see's an aes sedai saying 'do it jim! do it!'. As for things like saying you can only channel for certain reasons, ie cleansing the taint etc. Unfortunately history has showed that completely rational people have decide certain acts of murder or even genocide is needed to make things good and right again. Now for a madmen to convince themselves that to save the world he needs to go on a slaughter is going to take a LOT less. While this may stop a few it wont stop all.

 

Now while rods and chairs and any other shiny device of magical truth swearing goodness may not work, I think possibly compulsion could be a very different matter....

 

Compulsion to what I can see is a far more direct and is basically mind control. You arn't making them keep a promise you are telling them what to think and to make matters a whole lot more fun, they think it's their idea. Thus is a much more direct measure assertained.

 

The problem is how far does compulsion hold? Not only that but how far does the mind while break down the more madness grips someone.

 

I would like to think compulsion may/can work however it's to my best assumption that i wasn't used because well, not a simple weave and when some power charged nutter is running at you, there are a lot more pressing concerns then attempt thought manipulation.

 

In the end I think the madness was just discovered to late to counter and so much was lost after the breaking to implement a decent shield from male channelers other then generally culling the ability

[The Dragon Reborn]

The idea behind the permission to channel was the female Aes Sedai would never allow men to get a point where insanity became an issue AND seeing as the men would be supervised, if they did go mad (through some sort of fluke) there would be sane people present to deal with it...

 

Compulsion may work but I don't know that male or female would do it. The idea disgusts them throughly....then again so would the Oath Rod thing. ???

[Majsju]

While global warming is a very interesting and extremely important issue, that kind of discussion belongs to the Debates & Discussions board. Kinda why said board was created in the first place.

 

This board, as the name implies, are for things concerning the books.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

That said, from what we've seen of Compulsion, it seems being in close proximity is required. Now, knowing that Compulsion does not work on a man when he's holding Saidin, and that a man knows when a woman is channeling, how would a female Aes Sedai be able to approach a raving madman without him seizing saidin and then bruning her to a cinder?

[The Dragon Reborn]

 

That said, from what we've seen of Compulsion, it seems being in close proximity is required. Now, knowing that Compulsion does not work on a man when he's holding Saidin, and that a man knows when a woman is channeling, how would a female Aes Sedai be able to approach a raving madman without him seizing saidin and then bruning her to a cinder?

 

I assumed that the men would have agree to it before they went insane to prevent hurting people. Otherwise how could you really avoid the Breaking? The whole problem with the Breaking was there were too many going insane to stop/control. The only way I can see to avoid it would be to stop it before it really kicks-off. Once people figured out what was happening preventative measures need to be taken, not simply trying to control those that do go insane.

[VampireGoat]

I think its safe to assume once mad, there's no saving them bar death and stilling. Of course compulsion has to be done in close proximity, just as you need to hold rods and sit in chairs.

[The Dragon Reborn]

I think its safe to assume once mad, there's no saving them bar death and stilling. Of course compulsion has to be done in close proximity, just as you need to hold rods and sit in chairs.

 

That's what I've been saying once they're mad there isn't much that can be done, bar killing them or gentling them. So my point has always been: never let them reach that point. If one or two bound by oaths reach a point where the oaths no longer hold sway, no biggie, it's easily handled as they are supervised at all times while channeling. Far better than 100's of raving lunatics to deal with at one time. On the whole male channeler would have survived and those that do go gaga can't do much damage. 

[cloglord]

I'm not sure why those Male Aes Sedai who retained enough sanity to attempt to minimize their own role in the breaking weren't simply fitted with a shield similar to the one that Lanfear put on Asmo.  That way, when he went nuts he'd only be as dangerous as a man with a gun instead of a a man with a nuke. 

 

Hmm, oh well, the world broke, and its done and over with now.  Hindsight being 20/20 and all.

[Orange Fescue]

I'm not sure why those Male Aes Sedai who retained enough sanity to attempt to minimize their own role in the breaking weren't simply fitted with a shield similar to the one that Lanfear put on Asmo.  That way, when he went nuts he'd only be as dangerous as a man with a gun instead of a a man with a nuke. 

 

Hmm, oh well, the world broke, and its done and over with now.  Hindsight being 20/20 and all.

Lanfear said the shield she put on Asmodean could be broken through if he were willing to pain needed to do so. Apparently, Asmodean never learned to embrace pain, so he was stuck. Many of the mad Aes Sedai wouldn't have had his general wussiness to limit them and would have broken through a shield of that type.

[cloglord]

I had forgotten that, good point.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

It seems plausible that the Breaking could have been stopped if the men had been bound to never channel, but allowed to touch the source.

 

As for that making it impossible to do any exploratory research necessary to find out how to cleanse saidin, well, they could perhaps be allowed to channel only if they were giving a female channeler the reins in a link, or only if they were being linked to a female with the female in control.

 

That might work, with the females using that connection to research how to cleanse saidin, and it also should ensure that the men wouldn't go mad.

 

Perhaps even bind the men to not kill themselves, in order to keep the ability to channel from being culled from the population.

[cloglord]

It seems plausible that the Breaking could have been stopped if the men had been bound to never channel, but allowed to touch the source.

 

Yeah, I had that thought too, but I don't think it would have worked.  Even holding onto tainted Saidin would be enough to drive a person mad I think, and once they were crazy enough, their altered perceptions could concievably let them get around the binding.  Even if it didn't make them crazy, it would probably still bring on the "channeler's leprosy" that also awaits channelers of tainted Saidin.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

At the very least, it might have slowed the madness to such an extent that the channelers going mad could be dealt with long before they became dangerous.

 

But one thing I'd like to add: It seems like Lews Therin and the 100 Companions went mad almost immediately after sealing the bore. I guess because they were directly touched by the Dark One, perhaps.

 

Regardless, that would make it a little harder to keep things in order, but if that could be dealt with, who knows...

 

One thing to ask ourselves is whether or not females can go mad through linking with a man who is channeling tainted saidin. I'd presume that the man would act as a buffer of sorts, but I don't know.

[Digbe]

Sorry 'bout that guys I thought I posted my own lynching but I guess I logged off before I did so... Or maybe I put it own the wrong thread  ??? :-X

[The Lost One]

It's funny, in reading this thread I can see the development of the Red Ajah. 

 

Maybe they (the female Aes Sedai) had some of the same ideas that are being discussed in this thread.  I am sure they all couldn't agree 100% on the way to handle the crazy men.  A group of them (maybe the majority - maybe not) decided that that only way to deal with this situation was to gentle them. 

 

Also, would you trust a person you know might be crazy or that was soon going to be crazy to tell you they weren't crazy yet?  I think the trust factor for the male Aes Sedai went in the toilet once the female Aes Sedai found out what was going on.  With that happening, I think they were less likely to consider milder options for handling the situation.  But with that many men channeling, they really couldn't handle it anyway. 

 

Just some crazy thoughts....

[The Dragon Reborn]

That's an interesting idea about the Reds, never considered that. Strange that I had an idea quite similar to something a Red might have come up with, when I really dislike all Reds!  :-[

[warriordragon]

Note that before the breaking, all people who could channel were called Aes Sedai (male or female).