If Cadsuane gets killed before the last battle, who gets her ter'angreal set?

[Charlz Guybon]

If Cadsuane gets killed before the last battle (something I see as a distinct possibility), who gets her ter'angreal set? If you vote other, please explain who.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I voted for Moiraine, mostly because I hope she's the one who gets it, not because I have a specific scenario in mind.

 

I do think Cadsuane is going to die in AMoL, but I'm not decided on exactly where or how, and that will surely play into who gets the set.

[Majsju]

If it were up to Cad, i think Nynaeve would be in a good position to get at least the greater share of it. She does remind quite a bit about Cadsuane in many aspects, the Aes Sedai who wants to keep the WT at a distance, the strongest Aes Sedai of her time, and I can easily see Nynaeve settle down in randomly chosen village near the Black Hills after TG is over and Lan dead. And of course, she has been groomed by Cadsuane, who seems to have taken a bit of a personal interest in Nynaeve.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Nynaeve already has her own set, and many of the pieces serve the same purpose as pieces in Cadsuane's set.  In fact, Cadsuane is the one who explains most of the pieces to her (WH ch 32).  They both have a well (WH ch 32), both have an angreal (Nynaeve's is much stronger, see CoT ch 24), both have a ter'angreal that detects both saidin and saidar (WH ch 32), and a ter'angreal that breaks webs (Alivia was borrowing Nynaeve's at the Cleansing, WH ch 35).

 

While I agree that if Nynaeve didn't already have a set, Cadsuane (or whoever is deciding after Caddy's death) might choose to give the set to Nynaeve, she already has one.  It would be a little silly to give her another set.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I can't decide if I would say stolen by killer or other.

 

Her killer, assuming said killer recognized anything special about them, would certainly try and take them.  Even if they didn't see them as anythign special they would likely take them when looting the bodies.

 

The White Tower would certainly do everything in their power to get them so that the ornaments could be locked up to keep them safe.  The Tower wouldn't actually let anyone use them.  Absolutely not, they must be studied first.  And they wouldn't let anyone study them.  Why people die and get burned out that way.

 

Cadsuane wouldn't want just anyone to have them.  Cadsuane would have no reason to give them to Egwene, Aviendha or Elayne.  I also don't see her giving them to Alivia.  Alivia may be important now, but after Tarmon Gaidon, all she has left is a desire to kill Sul'dam. 

 

Cadsuane earned that set of Ter'angreal and Angreal.  I think she would expect the next person to possess them to do the same.  On those terms, Moiraine is most deserving after spending her entire career dedicated to the fight against the Shadow.  She came a long way from the person Cadsuane met shortly after the Aiel War.  Cadsuane doesn't know the new Moiraine though so I don't see Moiraine getting them either.

 

Which brings me right back to either the killer or other, namely the White Tower.  Between those choices, I would give slightly greater weight to other.  Cadsuane is very protective of those ornaments.  If anything could have been done to make sure they don't fall into the wrong hands, she would have done it.

[Jak_of_the_mourning]

Moraine Reborne ofcourse. She has the most experience and I already know what Cadsuane will say: "Take it girl, and make sure the boy survives". Moraine was probably closer to Cadsuane than most or something. ::) :D

[Thorum]

elimination:

 

not Moiraine: M thinks Cads is Black Ajah (all of New Spring)

not Egwene: she can make her own x'angreal

not Alivia: have they even met?

not Elayne: Cads and Elayne, I don't think those two will get along very well (to be optimistic)

 

so: Aviendha, the killer or "other" could have it.

 

I voted "other" for Nynaeve before reading the topic, though the reasoning puts her as little likely.

 

Aviendha would be my guess if I could revote.

[Majsju]

Yes, Nynaeve has a few that does pretty much the same thing as cads. That's why I put in the greater part rather than all of it, things doing the exact same thing might be less necessary to have several of, except for wells and angreals, since you obviously can use more than one. And Nynaeves well does not contain a lot of Saidar, just lifting Rand and Lan consumed about half of it.

 

As I see it, nynaeve is the most likely character to go flying solo post TG, and would therefore have the greatest need of as good stash as possible.

 

This is of course assuming Cad has a say in the distribution. And then it's worth keeping in mind that she has never met Egwene, Elayne or Aviendha, and while she has spent considerable time with Alivia, I can't being cad being so unorthodox that she gave a bunch of ter'angreal and angreal to a wildcard without the slightest relation to the tower. If she was to do that, i think Sorilea would be a far more likely recipant, as she and cads seems to have built a relationship based on a good deal of mutual respect.

[Charlz Guybon]

I can't decide if I would say stolen by killer or other.

 

Her killer, assuming said killer recognized anything special about them, would certainly try and take them.  Even if they didn't see them as anythign special they would likely take them when looting the bodies.

 

The White Tower would certainly do everything in their power to get them so that the ornaments could be locked up to keep them safe.  The Tower wouldn't actually let anyone use them.  Absolutely not, they must be studied first.  And they wouldn't let anyone study them.  Why people die and get burned out that way.

 

Cadsuane wouldn't want just anyone to have them.  Cadsuane would have no reason to give them to Egwene, Aviendha or Elayne.  I also don't see her giving them to Alivia.  Alivia may be important now, but after Tarmon Gaidon, all she has left is a desire to kill Sul'dam. 

 

Cadsuane earned that set of Ter'angreal and Angreal.  I think she would expect the next person to possess them to do the same.  On those terms, Moiraine is most deserving after spending her entire career dedicated to the fight against the Shadow.  She came a long way from the person Cadsuane met shortly after the Aiel War.  Cadsuane doesn't know the new Moiraine though so I don't see Moiraine getting them either.

 

Which brings me right back to either the killer or other, namely the White Tower.  Between those choices, I would give slightly greater weight to other.  Cadsuane is very protective of those ornaments.  If anything could have been done to make sure they don't fall into the wrong hands, she would have done it.

 

I think that Cadsuane will be killed by Semirhage in an escape attempt, so she'll definitely take them if she has time to loot the corpse. She'd probably be busy fighting other people though.

 

If the White Tower gets their hands on it I'm sure that Egwene would wear them.

 

Cadsuane is dead in this scenario, she doesn't have any say over who gets them.  Rand or Nyneave will likely be the one who decides on who gets the set.

[Achmed]

I'd like either Egwene or Moraine to have the gear. 

 

Moraine because it would make her strongly useful in a world where channeling has become much more common and strong channelers more prevalent than when Moraine left.

 

Egwene just because an Amrylin with that gear, with an angreal at hand, protective gear vs. channelers, wouldn't be overthrown.

 

I mean - I know everyone hates Egwene and all but ... if Egwene becomes a strong Amrylin...  it will help a lot.

[GrandpaG]

I, too,  voted "other" in favor of Nynaeve before I read the other posts simply because Cadsuane seemed to take a liking to her during their Far Madding trip.

 

 

This is really all moot.

Cadsuane will outlive the bunch of them.

Then she can reappear in the book after AMoL and everyone can say

"I thought you were dead!"  ;D

 

How does she live so long?  Did she miss swearing on the oath rod?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yes, Nynaeve has a few that does pretty much the same thing as cads. That's why I put in the greater part rather than all of it, things doing the exact same thing might be less necessary to have several of, except for wells and angreals, since you obviously can use more than one. And Nynaeves well does not contain a lot of Saidar, just lifting Rand and Lan consumed about half of it.

 

I'm sorry, Maj, but is there any piece of Cads' set that we know about that Nynaeve doesn't already have in hers?  Find me just one.  I'll wait.

 

While you're doing that, I'll wonder out loud whether or not anyone actually can use more than one angreal at a time.  I can't remember any times when that happened.  And Nynaeve already has the stronger angreal.

 

Oh ... and are there any indications that Cads' well holds any more than Nynaeve's?  I couldn't find one ...

 

Oh, and both sets are clearly made to function as sets.  I wonder if breaking them up would be a good idea?

 

I agree that Nynaeve is the most likely to assume a Cadsuane-like lifestyle after TG, assuming Lan is dead, which I think he will be.  I just don't see her wanting or needing Cadsuane's set.  Hers is, on the whole, slightly better, I think.

 

There's actually a good chance they were made by the same person or group.  Their functions seem to be precisely similar whenever compared.  The only difference mentioned so far is that Nynaeve's angreal is stronger.

[Achmed]

RAW,

I'm not sure if this qualifies because its a SA' angreal and an angreal but Rand drew from the Little Fat man angreal and the Choedan Kal at the same time.

[Luckers]

I'm sorry, Maj, but is there any piece of Cads' set that we know about that Nynaeve doesn't already have in hers?  Find me just one.  I'll wait.

 

Cadsuane has a star that vibrates near men who can channel, vibrating more if there are more men, and possibly one that can break distant weaves; it may be that Nynaeve's can do this, but as of this moment we only know that it breaks direct weaves. Cadsuane also has two fish and a moon that she doesn't know the use of.

 

Oh ... and are there any indications that Cads' well holds any more than Nynaeve's?  I couldn't find one ...

 

Actually Nynaeve's holds conciderably more than Cadsuane's. In the chapter 'The Humingbird's Secret' Cadsuane makes that quite clear.

 

Oh, and both sets are clearly made to function as sets.  I wonder if breaking them up would be a good idea?

 

Well we know from when Elayne first finds Nynaeve's set that there were pieces missing.

 

There's actually a good chance they were made by the same person or group.  Their functions seem to be precisely similar whenever compared.  The only difference mentioned so far is that Nynaeve's angreal is stronger

 

I don't think they were. The garish and overstated nature of Nynaeve's set in comparison to the understated elegance of Cadsuane's suggest different minds. Given that Nynaeve's seems more effective; able to differentiate between saidin and saidar, as well as more powerful, i'd suggest that its possible they were made by teacher (Cadsuane's set) and student (Nynaeve's set).

 

[Charlz Guybon]

Yes, Nynaeve has a few that does pretty much the same thing as cads. That's why I put in the greater part rather than all of it, things doing the exact same thing might be less necessary to have several of, except for wells and angreals, since you obviously can use more than one. And Nynaeves well does not contain a lot of Saidar, just lifting Rand and Lan consumed about half of it.

 

I'm sorry, Maj, but is there any piece of Cads' set that we know about that Nynaeve doesn't already have in hers?  Find me just one.  I'll wait.

 

While you're doing that, I'll wonder out loud whether or not anyone actually can use more than one angreal at a time.  I can't remember any times when that happened.  And Nynaeve already has the stronger angreal.

 

Oh ... and are there any indications that Cads' well holds any more than Nynaeve's?  I couldn't find one ...

 

 

Totally agree that it would be pointless for Nynaeve to be give Cads set. You're right we haven't seen any differences.

 

I think so, you can use a sa'angreal and angreal at the same time as Rand demonstrates, but it would be extremely greedy of Nyneave to break up a set like that, just to keep an angreal.

 

Nyneave's well holds more. If the two sets were made by the same person (and I agree that's a good possibility), I think Nyneave's set was made after Cads, because it seems better all around.

[RobertAlexWillis]

RAW,

I'm not sure if this qualifies because its a SA' angreal and an angreal but Rand drew from the Little Fat man angreal and the Choedan Kal at the same time.

 

That is a good point.  It may be possible to use two angreal simultaneously.

 

Cadsuane has a star that vibrates near men who can channel, vibrating more if there are more men, and possibly one that can break distant weaves; it may be that Nynaeve's can do this, but as of this moment we only know that it breaks direct weaves. Cadsuane also has two fish and a moon that she doesn't know the use of.

 

That is one.  Do we have a more complete inventory anywhere?  She mentions that item in CoT ch 23, but besides mentioning the ones she doesn't know the function of, she gives no other details there (about function, anyway).

 

Also, is there a list anywhere of the items in Nynaeve's set, and do we know if there are any items in her set still unidentified?  I know there are items missing, but are there any items present, but unaccounted for?

 

Well we know from when Elayne first finds Nynaeve's set that there were pieces missing.

 

That still doesn't make breaking up Cadsuane's set a good idea.

 

I don't think they were. The garish and overstated nature of Nynaeve's set in comparison to the understated elegance of Cadsuane's suggest different minds. Given that Nynaeve's seems more effective; able to differentiate between saidin and saidar, as well as more powerful, i'd suggest that its possible they were made by teacher (Cadsuane's set) and student (Nynaeve's set).

 

That would still qualify as the same person or group, Luckers.  Unless you don't consider a student and teacher to be a "group" ...

 

[Cadsuane]

Hmph. Just like men to be dividing up my belongings before I'm even gone.

[Vambram]

;D  :D ;D

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Cadsuane?! -gasp- I thought you were dead!

[Thorum]

RAW,

I'm not sure if this qualifies because its a SA' angreal and an angreal but Rand drew from the Little Fat man angreal and the Choedan Kal at the same time.

 

And: in circles it's possible (the weather bowl)

[Charlz Guybon]

Hmph. Just like men to be dividing up my belongings before I'm even gone.

 

You yourself have admitted that you could drop dead any day now, so I don't see how it's unfounded speculation. :P

[The Lost One]

Hmph. Just like men to be dividing up my belongings before I'm even gone.

 

You know, no one mentioned the MOST important.......who gets those LEGS!

[Darkness Incarnated]

Now, Cadsuane gets on my nerves (that's an understatement), but in no way would I wish her dead. When did it become widely accepted (it seems so) that she was going to die in AMoL? That would actually sadden me more than, say, Elayne or Egwene meeting an abrupt end.

 

[Guest cwestervelt]

There's actually a good chance they were made by the same person or group.  Their functions seem to be precisely similar whenever compared.  The only difference mentioned so far is that Nynaeve's angreal is stronger

 

I don't think they were. The garish and overstated nature of Nynaeve's set in comparison to the understated elegance of Cadsuane's suggest different minds. Given that Nynaeve's seems more effective; able to differentiate between saidin and saidar, as well as more powerful, i'd suggest that its possible they were made by teacher (Cadsuane's set) and student (Nynaeve's set).

 

I wouldn't consider the appearances of the either set to say anything about who made them.  There was some indication that items like these were made for specific people.  Much like Haral Luhan made Perrin's axe for a specific merchant's guard.  If that is true, then the ter'angreal/angreal would reflect the personalities of the person who commissioned them, not the person who actually made them.  Flamboyant for the Graendals and elegant for the Lanfears.

[Almearafan]

I voted other.  I think that if Cadsuane dies it will be at the hands of someone who has no clue about, nor the intelligence to look for her ter'angreal set. 

 

I believe somehow they will end up finding their way into Nynaeve's hands and she will inherit them from that point on.