Mashadar VS. Dark One

[Breaker of Light]

ladies and gentlemen, who do you think will win??? Mashadar, with the ability to destroy humanity from the inside out, or the Dark One, with thousands of followers and the ability to still mother nature and to taint the one power, the power source of the Wheel itself??? It's so close, either could win. you could cut the tensiion with a butter knife. Who do ou stand for?!?!?!

[Tenshin_Xo]

DO would win, no contest.  Rand was able to destroy Mashadar by destroying Shadar Logoth.  Rand will likely not be able to kill the DO, settling for merely sealing him away.  Therefore, DO > Mashadar.  ;D

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

This is kind of...

 

I don't know. It doesn't seem like there should be much debate on this one. Mashadar is a mindless mist that can sense when food is near. The DO is the antithesis to the Creator, and as such, should be able to overcome anything that the Pattern could throw at him.

 

Your winner, DO.

 

Now, I am wondering though, how exactly it is that two different types of evil can exist, one in Fain/Mordeth and another in the DO.

 

Its reminiscent of the Dragonlance books, in which evil always seems to turn on itself.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Earth history has a lot of similar examples.  The Crusaders, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials.  A lot of evil has been done in by those claiming to be fighting evil.  Once people start advocating that the end justifies the meens, you open yourself up to lots of problems.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

I'd almost say that the evil that is disguised as "good" is actually the worst strain of evil, because it does the most damage for the good, since it ruins their credibility.

 

 

[Darkness Incarnated]

The Dark One is one really bad son of a you know what. He is evil, complete with the evil laugh (see end of LoC). I'm not even sure the Creator could kick his dark butt. Mashadar fighting the DO is like a puffed-up tomcat measuring itself up to a lion. The DO would kick Mashadar's foggy butt.

 

;D

[Breaker of Light]

im not talking about the dark one himself, im talking about his evil. when matched against each other, M's DO's evil started fighting each other in Rand's wound. They matched for evil. M lives on in fain, but so does the DO. Im really excited about what RJ will do with fain in the last book. i personally think that the two evils will destroy each other, and when M is finally dead, there will be a ripple in the pattern, and Rand will finally have to break the seals or face the collaspe of reality. I think fain is cool man. I really like his fog trick. OH OH OH!!! i got it.

    Steam rose out through vents in the black rock, and as the man climbed, the air around him rippled with the tension. The man was bare as he climb, with a beak of a nose, and the madness that engulfed his soul was plainly visable on his contorted face.....  no idea how to finish it though. my sister arrived and threw me off the computer. As blood drenched my face, she let out a laugh that scratched on the billboard of my mind. Shadow radiated from her as her skin cracked like glass and fell away to reveil a monster from the darkess depths of hell, a monster that made the word evil seem girly. I screamed as she tried to rip my soul from the very fabric of time and space.

[Darkness Incarnated]

That's one sister of a kind you have there.

About Mashadar and the Dark One, you're asking whether one evil is more evil than the other, in their natures? It could be that they are evenly matched and would thus neutralize each other, as they seem to be doing in Rand's wounds.

However, does quantity count? The Dark One's evil seems to be in unlimited quantity (and of pure quality, might I add), whereas Mashadar...Fain's sample is the only one remaining, and arguably of not so original quality.

[callandor]

"the enemy of my enemy is my friend" but its city is totalled, soooooo....

[Guest cwestervelt]

Fain does not have a fog trick.  It was a bubble of evil that drifted up from the Dark One's prison and ruptured.

[Breaker of Light]

IDIOT!!!! it was fain that made the fog. A bubble of evil must effect something that was already there, like perrin and the axe, and mat with the cards. i repeat, it was not a buuble of evil. fain controled the fog. Remember he disappeared when the fog came? He is the only source of Mashadar left, so he's got all of its power, except he cant touch people and they die. In the end, i do think the DO would win only because he's basically the creators evil twin. Mashadar was human made, but still as evil, but as...big.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Breaker of Light, I would recommend you shut up before you choke on your own foot.  Between this thread and the M and Ps thread I must say your ignorance of Fain, Mashadar and Bubbles of Evil is quite impressive.

 

For one thing, Fain was not possessed by Mashadar.  Fain was possessed by Mordeth.  Mashadar was a mindless entity spawned by the hatred and suspicion Mordeth sowed in Aridhol.  Mashadar was bound to Shadar Logoth and no part of it ever left.  It was most likely consumed when Shadar Logoth was destroyed during the cleansing of the Taint.  For another, Mashadar does not possess, it kills.  If the Fog was Mashadar, everyone on that hill top would have died as soon as they were touched by it.  In the same way, had Fain encountered Mashadar while in Shadar Logoth, Fain would have died.  Fain encountered Mordeth, the same entity that posed as a treasure hunter when appearing to Mat, Rand and Perrin.

 

Bubbles of evil do not need to act on other objects like axes and playing cards.  The wind that nearly caused Rand to impale himself on a practice sword near the beginning of The Great Hunt was a Bubble of Evil.  (see RJ's blog http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=150)  They can also cause physical manifestations like the dust creatures that attacked Mat and Rand in Rhuidean and the killing Fog from A Crown of Swords.

 

Tenshin Xo tried to get you to understand on the M and Ps thread.  It is too bad you either didn't read the post or you didn't pay any attention to it.  He/she was much politer about this than I am.  And certainly much politer than you are deserving of at this point.

 

I think the encyclopaedia puts it best http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/books/acos/ch36.html

The fog is a "bubble of evil." It was not something caused by Fain. (TPoD,Glossary,Daved Hanlon)

 

Here is the Glossary entry from The Path of Daggers

Hanlon, David  A Darkfriend, formerly commander of the White Lions in service to the Forsaken Rahvin while he held Caemlyn using the name Lord Gaebril.  From there, Hanlon took the White Lions to Cairhien under orders to further the rebellion against the Dragon Reborn.  The White Lions were destroyed by a "bubble of evil," and Hanlon has been ordered back to Caemlyn for purposes as yet unknown.

[lou]

I'd almost say that the evil that is disguised as "good" is actually the worst strain of evil, because it does the most damage for the good, since it ruins their credibility.

 

 

 

i like it!! bad PR......

[Mr Ares]

Now, I am wondering though, how exactly it is that two different types of evil can exist, one in Fain/Mordeth and another in the DO.

Why shouldn't there be different types of evil? Is there only one sort in the real world?

 

Now, to the original question: Mashadar was destroyed with Shadar Logoth. The taint was destroyed. The evil of SL lives on in Fain/Mordeth, and the dagger. Shai'tan lives and is able to influence the world to a greater extent than any time since the AOL. Therefore, the evil of Shai'tan is far greater than the comparatively small scale threat posed be M & SL - equal quantities may be equally destructive, but we have a massive imbalance between the quantities of each. Victory to the Shadow, always.

 

And Breaker? cwestervelt is right, give up now, before you look more like an idiot than you do now. The only similarity between Mashadar and that Bubble was that they were both fog. Mashadar isn't filled with monsters like that fog was.

[Breaker of Light]

im just saying if you were to place the evil of mashadar and the evil of the DO against each other, they would destroy each other. I thought the wind in the tGH was because they were so close to the blight.

[Mr Ares]

I'm just saying, if you were to place the evil of mashadar and the evil of the DO against each other, they would destroy each other. I thought the wind in the tGH was because they were so close to the blight.

The two evils would destroy each other if present in roughly equal quantities. As the evil of SL is reduced to Fain, the dagger and Rand's wound from the dagger but Shai'tan is affecting the world to a greater extent than any time since the AOL, I think it's fair to say that in the long run He is the winner, as long as it remains a matter of attrition warfare. He can always make another taint, remember, and will be a lot harder to kill than Fain, despite all his abilities. Of course, Fain may be able to make another SL, but he's only one man, up against a god. Who is your money on?

[Guest cwestervelt]

With the evil of Mordeth, it is a matter of time.  The longer he is able to influencing people, the stronger that evil gets.  Only time would be able to tell what the limit of his power would be.  If there is a limit.

 

As it stands, the Dark One could sweep him aside easily.  Fain/Mordeth is really an enigma.  To see is power at its strongest, he needs another place like Aridhol where he can entrench himself.  However, if he should get another such power base, he might trap himself again.  Aridhol eventually consumed itself, and Mordeth could not leave until he met up with Fain.  The rules appeare to have changed, so I honestly don't know if that happen would happen if the situation repeated itself.  Mordeth's power originally appeared to be akin to "The Voice of Saruman."  Considering what Fain did to that one woman's son, his abilities go quite a bit beyond that now. 

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

I would assume Fain/Mordeth would be able to leave the presence of the city this time, being two separate entities. Three people in one body would be a bit much, anyways.

 

Also, it took a few years, at least, to produce Shadar Logoth, and we're looking at the LB taking place in a matter of months, so no time to form a new power base now.

 

Besides, with Fain, he is much more effective. He can use force, and can use the taint to kill people pretty easily...

[Guest cwestervelt]

Fain and Mordeth aren't two separate entities.  The share one body, and as time has passed, more of Fain appears to have been consumed, leaving only Mordeth.

 

I agree with the lack of time for him to establish a new power base like Aridhol.  That lack seriously impairs his power.  All he can do is sow the seeds right now.  He can't nurture that corruption to its fullest extent.

[Majsju]

Considering that Fain is hunted by Slayer, and very aware of that, settling down in one place would probably be an extremely stupid idea, even for someone as crazy as Fain.

[Guest cwestervelt]

That need to keep moving is a large part of why Fain doesn't have the time to establish himself.  I think more so because Rand should want him tracked down than because of fearing Slayer.  Slayer's track record hasn't been that great as far as Fain is concerned.  The spent the ending of Shadow Rising in relatively close proximaty, but Slayer still couldn't get to him.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

I can't wait to see that showdown. I wonder who will win? I'm rooting for Fain/Mordeth because I think that if he won he would have the potential to throw a lot more kinks in the DO's plan than he has already.

 

Think about it, the primary assassin of the dark: dead.

[Majsju]

Since I think Fain has an important role to play during TG, my bet is on him killing Slayer.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

I wonder exactly what he would do at Tarmon Gaidin. I wish he would find some kind of ter'angreal like Mat's...boy, the destruction he would wreak.

 

How potentially awesome would that be?

 

Even normally, I could see him fighting Shaidar Haran, though probably getting killed.

 

Or better yet, he sneaks up to Shaidar Haran and kills him with his infectious dagger which the super-fade is busy fighting Lan.

 

God, Fain is my favorite villain! He's just so cool. And he is on a side of his own, because he hates Shai'tan just as much as Rand.

[Majestic]

Fain is an awesome but very dirty character at the same time, he does alot of disgusting things and he kinda pisses me off sometimes but hes still awesome.