Rand's Rolling Gateways of death

[Luckers]

Well they can't. Thats kind of the point of this thread. Rand tells the others in KoD that no shadowspawn can pass through a gateway, and that wherever they ended up they would simply be dead, untouched and unhurt... unless they got chopped by the sharp edge of the gateway.

 

The trollocs do die travelling the ways, indeed there is something of a question about how a hundred thousand of them survived travelling all at once... although, to be fair, we only heard that Machin Shin was attracted by larger numbers from Moiraine, and she was, i suspect, guessing based on how few travelled that way to the Two Rivers.

 

As to how Fain survived, Moiraine says in The Eye of the World that no sooner had Machin Shin absorbed him, then that it fled, recognising in him something akin to itself. I too believe that some part of Fain imprinted upon the Black Wind, and that that was why it awaited Rand (and perhaps how it could sense him.) Because based on Fain's testimony he did not intentionally leave Machin Shin waiting.

[Simple Gleeman]

What if you created a gateway with each "end" facing upwards? And jumped in.

 

You could lie down in one gateway and part of your body would 'translocate' to the other gateway. So your back would be sticking up from one and gravity would be applying force against your back while it was also applying force against your front at the other gateway.

 

I wouldn't mind having a go at that bed =D

[Luckers]

What about opneing a horizontal gateway with the let out point just above the take in point. Theoretically you could fall forever.

[Simple Gleeman]

What does a gateway look like when you are viewing it from beyond its corresponding gateway?

 

You have two gateways facing each other for instance.. would it be like two mirrors facing each other? or would it be greyed out and distorted, like a feedback effect?

 

Or what if you took those two gateways facing each other, stood in between them, and somehow brought the two faces together and closed them in on yourself? Where would you go?

[mercurial67]

What if you created a gateway with each "end" facing upwards? And jumped in.

 

You could lie down in one gateway and part of your body would 'translocate' to the other gateway. So your back would be sticking up from one and gravity would be applying force against your back while it was also applying force against your front at the other gateway.

 

I wouldn't mind having a go at that bed =D

Until it came time to close the gateway that is....

[Ashandarei]

Well they can't. Thats kind of the point of this thread. Rand tells the others in KoD that no shadowspawn can pass through a gateway' date=' and that wherever they ended up they would simply be dead, untouched and unhurt... unless they got chopped by the sharp edge of the gateway.[/quote']

 

But that was only because Rand/LTT added that "little twist of earth" to it or something, remember when he first conjures up the deathgates? They're all black instead of open because unlike normal gateways, these have Earth woven in along with whatever other powers were used(air & spirit?)

isn't that why they get killed?

[Luckers]

No, thats what made them move. He states blankly that Shadowspawn cannot survive passing through any gateway, and since that info came from LTT, i imagine its correct.

[Slayer]

My guess is that because they are made from the OP, they cannot go through a gateway. But if the gateway were to be TP, it would make sense they can get through. It would also make things more interesting, like 1,000 trollocs popping up out of nowhere to attack Rand.

[Luckers]

Gateways are not made of the one power, indeed the one power has very little to do with them, other then in their making. This is repeated numerous times throughout the series, though you are probably correct in saying that it is something about their nature as constructs of the Power that does not allow their passage...

 

As to whether the True Power could allow the travelling of shadowspawn... the implication of true power travelling is that involves stepping out of the pattern... im not sure you could take anyone or anything with you... it didn't sound likely. Also, there is no proof that a construct of the power qouldn't have the same problem, because their problem with gateways does not arrive from the one power involved in the method of travel. It seems that if it was possible, it would have been done in AOL, and LTT would have been aware of it... which he may be, we may just not know of it. It still seems unlikely to me.

[Slayer]

I just came up with a really good theory.

 

When any type of construct of the OP (gateway, Trolloc, etc.) comes into contact with another, there are volatile results.

 

Exhibit A: Trollocs dying when they enter gateways

 

Exhibit B: Moraine is holding the OP when she shoves Lanfear into the ter'angreal, creating a bright light and engulfing the doorway in flames.

 

Exhibit C: When the ter'angreal foxhead medallion comes into contact with the Gho'lam, it hurts him because he is made of the OP.

 

The Gho'lam idea would explain why it would be hard to control a Gho'lam-only Aginor would now how to truly keep the Gho'lam leashed.

[Ashandarei]

cool theory, it seems to work... Luckers, you seem to often have the details/facts at hand, any thoughts?

[Luckers]

It's plausible... concider the effect described in Egwene's Accepted testing, of the two ter'angreal trying to melt themselves into the ground, and the tale of it having another time, in another place.

 

It seems to me though that perhaps there is another variable that we are not aware, because we have seen two ter'angreal working side by side since with no ill effects. It is my guess that for this effect to occur the two constructs of the power have to be similar in nature. The ring ter'angreal and the arches both manipulate something very like each other, tel'aran'rhiod and some dort of dream, artifical reality. Mat's ter'angreal and gholam both disrupt flows of the power.

 

Trollocs and gateways... they are both not of the power, but originally created by it, that may be enough of a similarity to cause what we've seen, or it may be that this is not what causes what occurs to the trollocs... though i think it does definately work that way.

[SinisterDeath]

Umm, one of the aes sedia, *the one who gave egwene the ring* said to her, that two ter'angrael, which have similar uses can cause very bad things to happen if used near each other. So this is already a known fact. As for the trollocs, the problem with "they were created by the one power" would only hold true about 3000 or so years ago in wot. They have been "bread" with humans over the remaining years, basically making them more "natural" so to speak. However.... What they do all have in common, is they were tainted by the darkone.. That "taint" may be as simple as "making sure" they were born, and big/strong. So, they are "effected" by the darkones "power" to make them exist.. After all, how does an oversized population of trollocs exist with out much food or argiculture? The darkone has to be playing a major role in making them not die of starvation... So that right there can be why the trollocs die when going through a gateway... That one split second, they are outside the pattern, and outside the do's touch, making them instantly die.

Constructs of the power could be the same.. meaning that if a gholam went through, which would be possible, since it wouldnt be touching any of the weaves would probably die, they were made by the one power, its whats holding them together... so going in a gateway, may well bring them outside the op and destroy them.

[Luckers]

Actually, Sinister, Verin gave Egwene the ter'angreal, and it was Alanna that told her of the sudo-melting affair. That being said there are still three distinct instances of this occuring. Additionally the Trollocs inability to go through a gateway dates back to the Age of Legends, which invalidates breeding as a viable opposition. I don't personally know if this effect is the case, but it certainly is a viable option, and we have no other.

[Jedimuppet]

Umm' date=' one of the aes sedia, *the one who gave egwene the ring* said to her, that two ter'angrael, which have similar uses can cause very bad things to happen if used near each other. So this is already a known fact. As for the trollocs, the problem with "they were created by the one power" would only hold true about 3000 or so years ago in wot. They have been "bread" with humans over the remaining years, basically making them more "natural" so to speak. However.... What they do all have in common, is they were tainted by the darkone.. That "taint" may be as simple as "making sure" they were born, and big/strong. So, they are "effected" by the darkones "power" to make them exist.. After all, how does an oversized population of trollocs exist with out much food or argiculture? The darkone has to be playing a major role in making them not die of starvation... So that right there can be why the trollocs die when going through a gateway... That one split second, they are outside the pattern, and outside the do's touch, making them instantly die.

Constructs of the power could be the same.. meaning that if a gholam went through, which would be possible, since it wouldnt be touching any of the weaves would probably die, they were made by the one power, its whats holding them together... so going in a gateway, may well bring them outside the op and destroy them.[/quote']

 

I think trollocs are actually bioengineered. Aginor was a geneticist/biochemist or some such specialty.

J

[FearTheStorm]

Ya im pretty sure you're right on that one Jedimuppet

[Ashandarei]

Yeah, Jedimuppet, they were bioengineered but at that time they didn't have any of the technological tools that we have today, they had the One Power, which they used in place of all our technology, and Asmodean used the OP to do the bioengineering/making of the trollocs etc.

[SinisterDeath]

Well, Originally they were made that way. Now they arent, they are bread. And they used the onepower in helping makeing the animal & human combine.

[Luckers]

Mmm. Aginor used the One Power to make all of his creations.

 

Nevertheless, they couldn't pass through gateways even back then, which means that the fact that they've bred now, as opposed to be created, doesn't invalidate this as an option.

[SinisterDeath]

But then, maybe the forsaken/lewis therin, aren't aware that if they try, they may very easilly be able to pass through a gateway? Afterall, have you ever seen them try? From what I saw in kod, the only evidence we have of trolocs who went through the gateways, that werent chopped up being dead was ltt, and his knowledge is 3000 years old, maybe he could be... wrong?

 

Either way, spinning gateways of death = cool.

[Luckers]

Well since trollocs were taken whole through the gatewys one would assume we will find out soon if it still holds true. I suspect it does, RJ wouldn't enter something like that just to have it be false.

[Shai-tan]

I wonder if someone will open a huge gateway in the middle of a trolloc army as they charge and half the trollocs get moved to another remote part of the world....

[Luckers]

Theoretically if a male/female circle of 76 opened a gateway it could be pretty damn huge, like scoop up the entire army with it... but no, it seems and overly convulted way to go about killing them.

 

Also, has anyone concidered this, LTT wove the deathgates to fade after a short time, but what if he had ties them off completely, whats to stop them not scything straight through a mountain or a city. What they should do is work out how fast they travel (as in speed accross the ground) and weave a whole bunch just randomly along the blight, with the weave set to disolve in a day or two. A thousand of this would do a fair amount of damage to the blight. 15,000... hmmm.

[Slayer]

You could literally level Shayol Ghul with a deathgate.

 

And can Myrrdraal pass through gateways?

[Luckers]

No. No shadowspawn at all which likely includes the random creatures of the blight. I do doubt though that you could make a gateway large enough to level shayol ghoul.