Is there solid proof that Moridin is Ishmael (sp?) ?

[GrandpaG]

My spelling might be off (sorry).

 

It seems to be totally accepted on DM that Moridin is Ishmael reincarnated.  I know this is a ton of circumstantial evidence.  Has it actually been confirmed by RJ?  Or a POV that I missed that says "boy I'm glad I'm not Ishmael any more"?  Kind of hoping for a RAW response to this one...he has a way of cataloging the quotes.  :)

[callandor]

who else would ishy be? graendal always said that ishy was crazy and used a lot of the DO's power thingy (i forfot what it was exactly) and moridin uses it almost non-stop. She also said in one of her POV's that she assumed that moridin was ishy reborn.

[GrandpaG]

who else would ishy be? graendal always said that ishy was crazy and used a lot of the DO's power thingy (i forfot what it was exactly) and moridin uses it almost non-stop. She also said in one of her POV's that she assumed that moridin was ishy reborn.

 

 

SSSSSSSSSssssssAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaa!!!!!!

[RobertAlexWillis]

The short answer is yes.  There is indeed lots of proof.

 

I could go through the whole list.  But I'm lazy.  So I'll just give you this.

 

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.2_forsaken2/1.2.3_moridin.html

 

That should cover it.

[GrandpaG]

The short answer is yes.  There is indeed lots of proof.

 

I could go through the whole list.  But I'm lazy.  So I'll just give you this.

 

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.2_forsaken2/1.2.3_moridin.html

 

That should cover it.

 

 

Very good evidence.  Most of it I had read before.  My instinct is to believe that Moridin = Ishmael.  I just wondered if it has been stated as fact by RJ.  What the heck makes me so non-trusting, anyway?  I think it must be the old saying "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me".  You may recall, I'm the silly ole Gwampy who doesn't trust Min of all people!  Then, yesterday, I learned I'm an introvert.  Paranoid introvert pervert.  Is my wife here?  :o

 

 

edit:  got carried away and forgot to say "thanks"!  That is a very interesting piece.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Is my wife here?

 

Isn't the more important question: Is your wife Moridin?

 

???  :P  ::)  ;D

 

That may be the longest string of emoticons I've ever used.

[GrandpaG]

Is my wife here?

 

Isn't the more important question: Is your wife Moridin?

 

???  :P  ::)  ;D

 

That may be the longest string of emoticons I've ever used.

 

 

Hope I'm not rubbing off on you!!!  Next thing you know, there will be RAW spam in Fiddlesticks!!! :o

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Ok, there is the whole thing about rats...

 

With Ishamael, he was always toying with rats, during Rands dreams, under the name Ba'alzamon.

 

With Moridin, we've seen a rat riding on his shoulder, like during the WH Forsaken Coffee Hour.

 

Know anybody else who is a fan of pet rats?

 

Then there is the whole thing with RJ. He says it is somewhat of an "open secret." In other words, he hasn't explicitly said Moridin is Ishy, but anyone with a brain can figure it out.

[Orange Fescue]

Know anybody else who is a fan of pet rats?

Moridin is Wilbur reborn?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Does that make Moghedien Charlotte?

[Luckers]

Lol. Smooth Robert, smooth.

[callandor]

wait, wouldnt that be switched around? er...

[Zardi]

You may recall, I'm the silly ole Gwampy who doesn't trust Min of all people!

You don't trust Min? Why? ???

[GrandpaG]

You may recall, I'm the silly ole Gwampy who doesn't trust Min of all people!

You don't trust Min? Why? ???

 

It's a gut instinct thing...I can't really explain it.

 

I love Min.  She's good for Rand.  There's just something there in the back of my mind that tells me to watch her...VERY closely.  Hope that's a crystal clear explaination.  :-\

 

I have similar but different mistrust for Verin, Cadsuane, Siuan, Leane, Alanna, and Moraine.  Sometimes Lan, believe it or not.

 

My favorite character, Thom,  seems to try to avoid getting involved but can't help it.  Besides being a master manipulator worthy of being Aes Sedai, sometimes I get an "uneasy" feeling with Thom.  Being where he should not be.  Knowing things he should not know.  He's sometimes "too convenient" like when the mydraal shows up in White Bridge.  How did Thom get away with just a limp?

 

RJ has fooled me before...now I'm overly cautious.  :-\

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

lol! Seriously.

 

Next, I expect you wont be trusting Rand, either...

 

Hey, who knows...lol

[GrandpaG]

lol! Seriously.

 

Next, I expect you wont be trusting Rand, either...

 

Hey, who knows...lol

 

 

Maybe if he had been raised anywhere but the Three Rivers.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Maybe if he had been raised anywhere but the Three Rivers.

 

Is that a joke?

[GrandpaG]

Maybe if he had been raised anywhere but the Three Rivers.

 

Is that a joke?

 

Borderline...yes...no...sorta...nah...

 

He has the Three Rivers innocense and stubbornness.  Tam raised him.  He learned respect.  He's still human, but I think his upbringing helped him be a better person.  Had he grown up where Siuan Sanche did he would have been more of a street tough and would have made different decisions.  I'm a country boy at heart so I tend to trust country bumpkins.  My time dealing with people from all over the country in the military also convinced me that people are different who grow up in different environments.  Do I trust Rand just because he's from the Three Rivers?  No.  Does his country boy background make me trust him more?  Yes.  Can't help how I think. :-[

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Well, actually, I was referring to the part about "Three" rivers. And you keep using "three."

 

You do realize that it is caled two rivers, don't you?

[GrandpaG]

Well, actually, I was referring to the part about "Three" rivers. And you keep using "three."

 

You do realize that it is caled two rivers, don't you?

 

 

 

:o

 

(I'm really NOT that old yet!...thanks)

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Well, if you are over 40...

[GrandpaG]

Well, if you are over 40...

 

53.

 

The younger 53, not the older 53. :)

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Well, the way I look at it, there are only two sides to 53...old, and oldest

[GrandpaG]

Well, the way I look at it, there are only two sides to 53...old, and oldest

 

 

Until it's your turn. :)

 

Yes, I almost, kinda remember when 53 was old...seems like ages ago!

 

Getting older beats the alternative, I guess...except for going to the dadgum pill pushers!!!  That part really stinks!!!  >:(

[Guest cwestervelt]

RJ has all but explicity stated that Moridin is Ishamael in the Question of the Week.

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

Week 3 Question: There are many theories that attempt to create a connection of time duration to the transmigration of the dead Forsaken. Are there time and/or power constraints on the Dark One's ability to transmigrate souls?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: There are definitely time constraints on the Dark One's power to transmigrate a soul. The soul doesn't have to be secured immediately - that is, the Dark One doesn't have to be ready to snatch the soul at the instant of death - but the longer that passes after the death, the less chance that the Dark One will be able to secure the soul. Someone who has been killed with balefire in actuality died before the apparent time of his or her death, and thus the window of opportunity for the Dark One to secure that soul for transmigration is gone before the Dark One can know that the soul must be secured unless the amount of balefire used is very small. Remember that the more balefire is used, the further back the target's thread is burned out of the pattern.

 

After the soul is secured, then a suitable body must be acquired and stripped of the (former) owner's memory and soul to make way for the favored one. By the way, what constitutes a suitable body from the Dark One's perspective is not that of the recipient. Certainly Aginor would never have chosen to be reincarnated in his, shall we say, less than imposing body, nor would the womanizing Balthamel have chosen to be reincarnated as a beautiful woman. It was only chance that Moridin ended up in a body that is young, fairly good looking and physically imposing. Those things simply don't matter to the Dark One. But the body has to be basically healthy and sound, and neither too young nor too old. After all, the Dark One wants his servants to be effective, and a body that meets those basic requirements is more desirable than one that doesn't. Since there is no stockpile of such bodies, the only way for someone to die and immediately be reincarnated would be a matter of pure chance. That is, the death occurred when a suitable body was on hand for some other reason.

 

There are a few other limits and constraints, but I won't go into them here, since I may want to use them in the books, and I would rather they come as a surprise if I do.

 

While he doesn't say Moridin = Ishamael, he does say that Moridin is a resurrected person.  Process of elimination based on who we know was resurrected, and who we knew couldn't be pretty much seals the deal though.