What are the BIG changes you would have made?

[WoTwasThat]

Imagine you get to a free hand and unlimited resources and a clean slate to adapt the books to the screen. What are the BIG changes you would have made from the books?

 

I just finished my reread of Fires of Heaven (and I had forgotten how good this book was, btw). Here is my list off top of my head…

 

- Book 1 = Season 1 and I would have been super faithful. Including the prologue. 

- The Super Girlz just figuring stuff out by intuition makes ZERO sense. At least with Ran he’s the DR so there’s a reason.  I’d have them learn most of their stuff in the tower.

- Elayne sucks. Sorry not sorry. I wouldn’t cut her character. And I’d still have her be “in love” with Rand. But that doesn’t mean Rand has to love her back. This whole “love story” makes sense as teenage infatuation but not actual love, and I’d depict it as such with the expected outcome. In fact, I’d probably make her character even more annoying in the show. Basically she’d be like Sansa, like how book readers would be like “ok, Sansa sucks but she’s as bad in the books. She still sucks but not as bad as the show.”

- Give the Forsaken interesting backstories, make them more dangerous, and don’t reincarnate half of them. Ugh.

- The Elayne and Nynaeve join the circus storyline is tedious and dumb. Cut.

- Bowl of the Winds gone.

- Elayne Andor/Cairhien succession waaaay abbreviated.

- Perrin/Faile captivity story waaay abbreviated. And the Shaido are obliterated after Dumai’s Wells. 
- Taim is Demandred. Or at least Demandred is somewhere way less contrived than in the books. 

 

I’m sure I’ll think of more as I get further into the reread, but that’s what I can think of for now. 

 

Edited August 30 by WoTwasThat

[Tenobia si bashere kazadi]

Here are some of mine:

• To make the Forsaken more dangerous I would have less of them killed in the early books 
• I'd have Rand not love  Aviendha and Elayne. He can stay with Min though. I agree with you Elayne's crush on Rand does come of as teenage infatuation.
• Kill of Gawyn after Dumai Wells
• I would expand the role of Fain, not sure how but he was just such an interesting villain to me that I want to see more of him
• Get rid of the Perrin/Faile/Berelain love triangle
• At the end, I would have Rand riding of into the sunset on Bela.

Edited September 6 by Tenobia si bashere kazadi

[WoTwasThat]

On 9/6/2025 at 2:40 PM, Tenobia si bashere kazadi said:

Here are some of mine:

• To make the Forsaken more dangerous I would have less of them killed in the early books 
• I'd have Rand not love  Aviendha and Elayne. He can stay with Min though. I agree with you Elayne's crush on Rand does come of as teenage infatuation.
• Kill of Gawyn after Dumai Wells
• I would expand the role of Fain, not sure how but he was just such an interesting villain to me that I want to see more of him
• Get rid of the Perrin/Faile/Berelain love triangle
• At the end, I would have Rand riding of into the sunset on Bela.

I like the Rand / Aviendha relationship and it at least makes sense because they spend so much time together. But damn the Elayne thing just so dumb. 
 

Gawyn you’re right. You either have to kill him off or change his character. Could have been a much better character but really mishandled by Jordon in my opinion. 
 

Totally forgot about the Perrin love triangle but totally agree. 

[Loose Theremin]

Lots of cuts would need to be made and lots of condensing to fit the story into say an eight season show. So out goes.

 

1. Perrin. We already have two Ta'veren in Rand and Mat so we don't need a third. No need for the wolves either which is good because working with animals on screen is a pain. And it takes out the Battle for the Two Rivers side story as well. And no Perrin means no Faile so all of the time wasted on that tedious story goes. And cut Berelain too of course and there would be no Lord Luc/Esam.

 

2. The Whitecloaks. With Perrin gone do we really need the Whitecloaks? They take up a lot of space and aren't really necessary.

 

3. The Tu'atha'an. They are unnecessary and not interesting. Just have them as a group that died out a thousand years ago but keep them as a plot device for the Aiel back story.

 

4. Min. I love Min but we already have Egwene as a foreteller so Min is a duplicate.

 

5. Elayne. I would have killed off Elayne at Falma when they were betrayed to the Seanchan by Liandrin. I loved early Elayne but Robert Jordan did her dirty later on when she seemed to lose half of her intelligence for no good reason. I would have made Aviendha Rand's only love interest. Their "courtship" was hilarious and she was more than enough woman for the Dragon Reborn.

 

6. Morgase. I would have had Gaebril kill her off in Camelyn and I would have cut Galad as a character and just have Gawyn.

 

7. The Seafolk and the Bowl of the Winds. A tedious people and side story that could easily be cut.

 

8. I would have had Moiraine killed off by Lanfear when she had her hissy fit in Cairhein. Bringing Moiraine back served no real purpose. Moiraine could have transferred Lan's bond to Nynaeve directly and that would cut out all of the Mirelle guff as well.

 

Well that's probably enough for a decent start at thinning out the old forest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10 by Loose Theremin
To correct a point number duplication.

[Turin Turambar]

I just hope none of you ever criticised the show for "not being true to the books".

 

Cause these changes make this an entirely different story.

[WoTwasThat]

3 hours ago, Turin Turambar said:

I just hope none of you ever criticised the show for "not being true to the books".

 

Cause these changes make this an entirely different story.

Serious question: how do any of the changes I proposed in the opening post make WOT “an entirely different story”?

[WoTwasThat]

13 hours ago, Loose Theremin said:

Lots of cuts would need to be made and lots of condensing to fit the story into say an eight season show. So out goes.

 

1. Perrin. We already have two Ta'veren in Rand and Mat so we don't need a third. No need for the wolves either which is good because working with animals on screen is a pain. And it takes out the Battle for the Two Rivers side story as well. And no Perrin means no Faile so all of the time wasted on that tedious story goes. And cut Berelain too of course and there would be no Lord Luc/Esam.

 

2. The Whitecloaks. With Perrin gone do we really need the Whitecloaks? They take up a lot of space and aren't really necessary.

 

3. The Tu'atha'an. They are unnecessary and not interesting. Just have them as a group that died out a thousand years ago but keep them as a plot device for the Aiel back story.

 

4. Min. I love Min but we already have Egwene as a foreteller so Min is a duplicate.

 

5. Elayne. I would have killed off Elayne at Falma when they were betrayed to the Seanchan by Liandrin. I loved early Elayne but Robert Jordan did her dirty later on when she seemed to lose half of her intelligence for no good reason. I would have made Aviendha Rand's only love interest. Their "courtship" was hilarious and she was more than enough woman for the Dragon Reborn.

 

6. Morgase. I would have had Gaebril kill her off in Camelyn and I would have cut Galad as a character and just have Gawyn.

 

7. The Seafolk and the Bowl of the Winds. A tedious people and side story that could easily be cut.

 

8. I would have had Moiraine killed off by Lanfear when she had her hissy fit in Cairhein. Bringing Moiraine back served no real purpose. Moiraine could have transferred Lan's bond to Nynaeve directly and that would cut out all of the Mirelle guff as well.

 

Well that's probably enough for a decent start at thinning out the old forest.

DAYUM SON… now that’s some CUTS! Lol. That’s a good 25% of the series, at least??

[Loose Theremin]

6 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

DAYUM SON… now that’s some CUTS! Lol. That’s a good 25% of the series, at least??

And I was only getting started ! Wheel of Time is full of bloat and it has to be pruned savagely to make it possible to do a workable television adaptation. Maybe if they forgot about costly special effects and used the money  to produce twenty episode seasons they could cram two thirds of the story in. Then the focus would be on getting  the writing right.

[Turin Turambar]

On 9/10/2025 at 7:12 PM, WoTwasThat said:

Serious question: how do any of the changes I proposed in the opening post make WOT “an entirely different story”?

If you don't understand how removing entire story arcs changes the story then I can't help you.

 

[WoTwasThat]

9 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

If you don't understand how removing entire story arcs changes the story then I can't help you.

 

You didn’t say “changes the story” - of course cuts would somewhat change the story. What you said was my cuts would make it “an entirely different story.” Let’s not just ignore plain English, ok?

 

I would have adapted WOT far more faithfully to the earlier books 1-6, and cut more extensively from the book 7-11 which a great many fans agree were tiresomely bloated. That sure as heck wouldn’t have made my adaptation an “entirely different” story. I dare say it would have helped the central story - Rand’s hero’s journey as the Dragon Reborn - actually succeed to completion on screen. 

Edited September 12 by WoTwasThat

[Ithillian Turambar]

So, what I'm getting is, you're really missing all the heated debates.

 

It has slowed down a lot, it's true.

[HeronMarkedBlade]

On 8/30/2025 at 7:04 PM, WoTwasThat said:

Imagine you get to a free hand and unlimited resources and a clean slate to adapt the books to the screen. What are the BIG changes you would have made from the books?

 

I just finished my reread of Fires of Heaven (and I had forgotten how good this book was, btw). Here is my list off top of my head…

 

- Book 1 = Season 1 and I would have been super faithful. Including the prologue. 

- The Super Girlz just figuring stuff out by intuition makes ZERO sense. At least with Ran he’s the DR so there’s a reason.  I’d have them learn most of their stuff in the tower.

- Elayne sucks. Sorry not sorry. I wouldn’t cut her character. And I’d still have her be “in love” with Rand. But that doesn’t mean Rand has to love her back. This whole “love story” makes sense as teenage infatuation but not actual love, and I’d depict it as such with the expected outcome. In fact, I’d probably make her character even more annoying in the show. Basically she’d be like Sansa, like how book readers would be like “ok, Sansa sucks but she’s as bad in the books. She still sucks but not as bad as the show.”

- Give the Forsaken interesting backstories, make them more dangerous, and don’t reincarnate half of them. Ugh.

- The Elayne and Nynaeve join the circus storyline is tedious and dumb. Cut.

- Bowl of the Winds gone.

- Elayne Andor/Cairhien succession waaaay abbreviated.

- Perrin/Faile captivity story waaay abbreviated. And the Shaido are obliterated after Dumai’s Wells. 
- Taim is Demandred. Or at least Demandred is somewhere way less contrived than in the books. 

 

I’m sure I’ll think of more as I get further into the reread, but that’s what I can think of for now. 

 

God, that would be even worse than Rafes version. 
 

I cringed at literally every cut you listed, except the circus.

 

Tam as Damodred 🤮 

[WoTwasThat]

4 hours ago, HeronMarkedBlade said:

God, that would be even worse than Rafes version. 
 

I cringed at literally every cut you listed, except the circus.

 

Tam as Damodred 🤮 

Hey now! Worse than Rafe’s version is a low blow lol. Even if we just agreed on cutting the circus stuff, that’d help. And Taim doesn’t have to be Demandred - just can’t have Demandred coming out of practically nowhere at the very end.

 

As I’ve gotten further into my re-read, I agree that the Bowl plotline doesn’t need to be cut, just shortened. But the Seafolk probably need to go. And a lot of the Kin, too. Basically that whole thing that coalesces around the Andoran Succession plot line is insufferable and needs to go.

[Andra]

12 hours ago, HeronMarkedBlade said:

God, that would be even worse than Rafes version. 
 

I cringed at literally every cut you listed, except the circus.

 

Tam as Damodred 🤮 

Taim, not Tam.  Demandred, not Damodred.

 

And many readers (including myself) thought Mazrim Taim would turn out to be the disguise Demandred was using - until Jordan changed his mind near the end of the books.  This potential plot point is referred to as "Taimandred."