First time series reader - thought dump

[Radauja]

I’ve been listening to the WOT audiobooks for the first time since the show got cancelled (first 4 books narrated by Rosemund Pike are phenomenal) and I am currently on book 6 - lord of chaos. And I keep having the same recurring thought in every book - why are the Aes Sedai (Nynaeve, Egwane & Elayne included) so bloody unlikable!?! I find them truly insufferable. Do they become any more tolerable or do their pompous attitudes carry on all the way to book 15 

[Prowler]

They always have an air about them, partially,  I feel, because of their positions. However, I feel they do become more likeable/tolerable/humbled throughout the series. They never lose their flare, but lessons learned help this. @WillRNDad has read the series at least 4-5 times, starting when the books were not all published yet. He may have more insight, as I myself, am newer to the series as well. 

Edited July 11 by Prowler

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

The Wonder Girls all go through character arcs - and over the course of the series we meet many different Aes Sedai that are not all quite as annoying. 

 

The reason they are so annoying at times, has a lot of influences, in my opinion.

 

Jordan's idea of a strong woman seems to rub some people the wrong way. This gets better through the books, as a theme no individual can effect things alone. I think this compounds with the fact that the Aes Sedai are meant to be the most powerful individuals in the world. So it can make them seem rather arrogant. 

 

Also by the point you are in the story, it should becoming apparent that the White Tower is not as effective as it thinks it is. Their knowledge and their traditions, despite their collective certainty, are, shall we say, sub-optimal.

 

Also, as I see it, Jordan tends to have protagonists and antagonists in scenes, and leans into nearly caricature. I think this one of things that people like about his characterisations, as it throws characters and traits into strong contrasts, which I think a lot of readers find relatable. Like if a character is being stupid, then they act really stupid, rather than having to show that they really are intelligent under that. For most of the books, we encounter Aes Sedai as the antagonists to our main characters, whether through well meaning interference or less well meaning. Later in the book, we see more from the point of view of actual sisters and White Tower starts to feel much more like a real place with real well-intentioned, flawed people.

 

But yes, the depiction of the female characters is both one of the books strong points and weak points, imho. There will always be an element of what is annoying you, as far as I can tell, but it does get better as the characters grow and the story develops.

[Radauja]

  On 7/11/2025 at 7:33 PM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

The Wonder Girls all go through character arcs - and over the course of the series we meet many different Aes Sedai that are not all quite as annoying. 

 

The reason they are so annoying at times, has a lot of influences, in my opinion.

 

Jordan's idea of a strong woman seems to rub some people the wrong way. This gets better through the books, as a theme no individual can effect things alone. I think this compounds with the fact that the Aes Sedai are meant to be the most powerful individuals in the world. So it can make them seem rather arrogant. 

 

Also by the point you are in the story, it should becoming apparent that the White Tower is not as effective as it thinks it is. Their knowledge and their traditions, despite their collective certainty, are, shall we say, sub-optimal.

 

Also, as I see it, Jordan tends to have protagonists and antagonists in scenes, and leans into nearly caricature. I think this one of things that people like about his characterisations, as it throws characters and traits into strong contrasts, which I think a lot of readers find relatable. Like if a character is being stupid, then they act really stupid, rather than having to show that they really are intelligent under that. For most of the books, we encounter Aes Sedai as the antagonists to our main characters, whether through well meaning interference or less well meaning. Later in the book, we see more from the point of view of actual sisters and White Tower starts to feel much more like a real place with real well-intentioned, flawed people.

 

But yes, the depiction of the female characters is both one of the books strong points and weak points, imho. There will always be an element of what is annoying you, as far as I can tell, but it does get better as the characters grow and the story develops.

Expand  

The characters really do intrigue me as the story unfolds. I think it’s phenomenal how he has been able to create and develop so many different individuals capturing their unique traits and voices so deeply! One of the things that tickles me continuously is seeing how the characters view eachother e.g. Mat, Perin & Rand all thinking they are individually useless with women whilst the other two always ruminate at how much better the others are with them lol. I understand what you mean about seeing the world views from different Sisters as the series goes on and really noting they are just women who have a lot of power which feeds into how they see themselves and their place in the world - very relevant to the real world and those in positions of power I feel. I’ve just finished book 6 and half way through the prologue of book 7 so very eager to see how things play out following the events of breaking Rand free 

[Radauja]

Just started book 7 and part way through the prologue! Current thoughts:

- Black Ajah truly are hidden everywhere 😳

- Elaida has surely misread her foretelling 😳

- Can’t wait until the tower finds out Rand is free 🤭

- Poor Rands mental health (constant thought)

- Perrin is a really good friend to the lad 

- Still unsure why Faile was so upset/hurt with Perrin about Berelain in book 6 

- Who will get their hands on the bowl first at Ebou Dar 

- Something rubs me wrong about Mazrim Taim 

- The story would be much shorter and there would be less pain and strife if the core five simply trusted eachother and shared their secrets - truly can’t understand why they don’t but I guess it’s a side affect of the times and culture 

 

#braindump 

[Radauja]

  On 7/11/2025 at 3:35 PM, Prowler said:

They always have an air about them, partially,  I feel, because of their positions. However, I feel they do become more likeable/tolerable/humbled throughout the series. They never lose their flare, but lessons learned help this. @WillRNDad has read the series at least 4-5 times, starting when the books were not all published yet. He may have more insight, as I myself, am newer to the series as well. 

Expand  

Looking forward to returning to this and seeing how my views have developed as the story continues. Just kicked off book 7!

[Mailman]

  On 7/12/2025 at 2:32 AM, Radauja said:

Just started book 7 and part way through the prologue! Current thoughts:

 

- The story would be much shorter and there would be less pain and strife if the core five simply trusted eachother and shared their secrets - truly can’t understand why they don’t but I guess it’s a side affect of the times and culture 

 

#braindump 

Expand  

Rand and Perrin in particular have a large dose of distaste for their abilities which leads to them being very guarded. Rand has major trust issues and intensely resents being controlled which is not that unfair as everyone is constantly trying to do so. the girls growing ties to the organisations that are leading this effort also do not help.

[Bodewhin]

  On 7/11/2025 at 10:36 AM, Radauja said:

I’ve been listening to the WOT audiobooks for the first time since the show got cancelled (first 4 books narrated by Rosemund Pike are phenomenal) and I am currently on book 6 - lord of chaos. And I keep having the same recurring thought in every book - why are the Aes Sedai (Nynaeve, Egwane & Elayne included) so bloody unlikable!?! I find them truly insufferable. Do they become any more tolerable or do their pompous attitudes carry on all the way to book 15 

Expand  

Hard to say - personally speaking, when I first started the series, I thought Nynaeve was insufferable and too bossy - but she actually became one of my favorite characters in the series. I liked Elayne right off, imo she really fit the pampered princess who knows nothing about the world outside of her sheltered existence, she grows as the series progresses but if you don't like her, I'm uncertain if that will change. I grew to like and understand Egwene over time, so my opinion of her shifted as the series went. 

 

IMO Jordan's characters are what I liked best about the WOT.  Having said that everyone has characters they click with them or annoy them, that's just personal preference. 

 

I give Jordan credit for having badass females who are also flawed human beings, products of their upbringings, societies, and not presented in a way I've found in a lot of other fantasy authors treating female characters - either too perfect or too imperfect. Of course, that's just my opinion as a female reader. That goes for his male characters as well. There's few book characters I've been so invested in as those in the WOT.

 

Having said that @HeavyHalfMoonBlade makes some very valid points above. I do find the use of antagonist narrative being a focus in scenes which makes POVs conflict.  His take on Aes Sedai fits my takeaway as well. 

 

But hey, another new reader (I only started around the covid pandemic era myself!) I hope you enjoy the journey, the WOT is a wild ride worth taking! 

[chiamac]

IMO fwiw... 

The books, to me, are about men and women working together - which is also expanded to people working and living together - to accomplish great things. The flashbacks we see of the 2nd age are of that, people working together for the benefit of each other. The fall of that age happens when no one trusts each other and does their own thing. 

 

This is even at a micro level in Emonds Field. There is a mens group, and a womens circle, both think they are running the town. 

 

The  Aes Sedai aren't meant to be likeable, in fact no group really is meant to be all that likable. They think they alone know what's best for the world, and they are trying to do that themselves. Nynaeve, Egwane & Elayne included with that. They, now as women channelers, feel that they know what's best and are out to do that. 

 

Eventually that does come around, I guess, in the last few books that I haven't got to yet. But, in the meantime, no one trusts each other, everyone thinks they are right, and at parts of the book the challenge is to work together to accomplish something. 

[Samt]

  On 7/15/2025 at 2:45 PM, chiamac said:

IMO fwiw... 

The books, to me, are about men and women working together - which is also expanded to people working and living together - to accomplish great things. The flashbacks we see of the 2nd age are of that, people working together for the benefit of each other. The fall of that age happens when no one trusts each other and does their own thing. 

 

This is even at a micro level in Emonds Field. There is a mens group, and a womens circle, both think they are running the town. 

 

The  Aes Sedai aren't meant to be likeable, in fact no group really is meant to be all that likable. They think they alone know what's best for the world, and they are trying to do that themselves. Nynaeve, Egwane & Elayne included with that. They, now as women channelers, feel that they know what's best and are out to do that. 

 

Eventually that does come around, I guess, in the last few books that I haven't got to yet. But, in the meantime, no one trusts each other, everyone thinks they are right, and at parts of the book the challenge is to work together to accomplish something. 

Expand  

This is a key to enjoying wheel of time in my opinion.  You aren’t meant to like the protagonists all the time.  They get more likable towards the end.

[chiamac]

  On 7/16/2025 at 2:22 PM, Samt said:

This is a key to enjoying wheel of time in my opinion.  You aren’t meant to like the protagonists all the time.  They get more likable towards the end.

Expand  

 

I've been listening to some of the lectures and classes Brandon Sanderson has up. One of the comments that stuck with me on characters was that protagonists aren't always heros. 

 

The books, for better or worse, pretty much follow Rand, Perrin, and Mat around. The focus around them and who they interact with is through their perspective and because they ran into whomever. The story could have just as well treated Rand like Logain and focus on the point of view from the Seanchan. Then we'd pick up on Rand and friends as they interact with the Seanchan and then we'd see the Aes Sedai from a different point of view and different opinion. 

Point being, it's all about perspective on who we may frame as "good" or "well intentioned", because as I said before, none of them are really all that great. For instance the way Aes Sedai treat some of the tower sisters isn't all that far removed from Seanchan and their Damane. 

I'm not even sure we're meant to like Rand at times... 

In a way, to expand on my working together comment, it's also the Cowboy BeBop thing of "carry that weight" only in "death is light as a feather, duty heavier than a mountain" (or whatever if that isn't exactly it). On top of that, as we've read with Ta'veren, that they are drawn together by the pattern.

 

In a way we're not even really reading a heros journey with any of them, they are just moving and living towards what the pattern predestined for them and fulfill however the pattern has things turn out, or at least it seems that way sometimes. 

 

IMO and an audio book person so apologies if I get name spellings wrong. 

 

[WillRNDad]

  On 7/11/2025 at 10:36 AM, Radauja said:

I’ve been listening to the WOT audiobooks for the first time since the show got cancelled (first 4 books narrated by Rosemund Pike are phenomenal) and I am currently on book 6 - lord of chaos. And I keep having the same recurring thought in every book - why are the Aes Sedai (Nynaeve, Egwane & Elayne included) so bloody unlikable!?! I find them truly insufferable. Do they become any more tolerable or do their pompous attitudes carry on all the way to book 15 

Expand  

 

@Prowler tagged me in this.  Sorry I am just responding. As the books progress, we see amazing growth in these women. While they still always have the same "air" about them, they find a balance together. Because that is what the Pattern is all about, Balance. If you keep with it, I think you will grow to like what these three grow in to.