Sex in the WoT adaptation

[Kaleb]

11 hours ago, Guire said:

My complaint from a straight guy perspective was that time is the resource in show most important.  The very positive inclusive everything goes sex scenes didn't add much emotionally or cause any visceral feelings of stress or danger to show.  The time could have been better spent on certain characters development that lead to better emotional payoff later.  

This is a fair point, and it does highlight one of the big splits in the fandom. Honestly more of a shattering than a split. There are so many themes and threads to be followed in the books and everyone loves some particular points more than others. Reading the books as primarily a wartime apocalypse story is absolutely valid, it's clearly the main plot. But what makes the books really click with people are often other aspects of the story: the historical lore and magic system, any of the various character arcs, the detailed cultural worldbuilding, the politics and infighting and relationship drama. The Prime show is leaning into the characters and their relationships pretty heavily, and definitely not focusing on the gritty war story the way another team could have chosen to do. Neither approach is wrong, but I get being disappointed by the choice.

 

I also wanna add that the S2 scene where Egwene asks Alanna for help channeling but Alanna thinks she's talking about threesomes is hilarious and priceless for Egwene's increasingly uncomfortable reaction. Great character moment that fits exactly with Egwene's all-business ambition in the books, and also using her as a stand-in for all the Two Rivers characters' prudery.

Edited April 24 by Kaleb

[Cipher]

Sex shown in any movie or show feels awkward to me.  In Wheel of Prime it changes the tone and feel of the story in a worse way IMO.

 

I am in the same demographic as Guire.  I don’t watch shows that have this type of attitude toward sexuality, but my love of WoT has me here.

 

The idea that Jordan didn’t show STDs means they didn’t exist in WoT is silly.  Did he ever mention when a character relieved him/herself? I guess the people in WoT don’t have to sh!t.  In GoT it was mentioned (books not TV show for me).

 

I have never witnessed co-workers or acquaintances IRL talk or treat sex as this show does.  Except a random guy in the locker room say something vulgar that took him down a few pegs in my estimation of him.

 

Friends groups can be different ofc, but guys who just try to get with every woman they can and treat them poorly are not my kind of friends.  And woman who jump from guy to guy seem miserable to me.  I know it is different in the LGB community.  Are lesbians known as being open and promiscuous as gay men?  My limited understanding is generally no.
 

What does a lesbian bring on her second date? A U-Haul (full of her stuff).

Edited May 3 by Cipher

[Kaleb]

On 5/3/2025 at 9:13 AM, Cipher said:

Sex shown in any movie or show feels awkward to me.  In Wheel of Prime it changes the tone and feel of the story in a worse way IMO.

 

I am in the same demographic as Guire.  I don’t watch shows that have this type of attitude toward sexuality, but my love of WoT has me here.

 

The idea that Jordan didn’t show STDs means they didn’t exist in WoT is silly.  Did he ever mention when a character relieved him/herself? I guess the people in WoT don’t have to sh!t.  In GoT it was mentioned (books not TV show for me).

 

I have never witnessed co-workers or acquaintances IRL talk or treat sex as this show does.  Except a random guy in the locker room say something vulgar that took him down a few pegs in my estimation of him.

I'm a few years younger than you and Guire, but for the record I'm a 48yo white cishet guy who's been reading WOT since I was a super-conservative teenager whose parents held me out of class to take high school sex ed as a correspondence course in the '90s. I'm married with three teenage kids. Demographics aren't the reason y'all are having a problem with this, it's a cultural thing - which is real and valid and I'm not trying to dismiss it. Just don't say you don't get it because you're a middle-aged straight guy.

 

Cipher, I'm curious what vulgar words have been spoken in the show to make you uncomfortable. I can only think of a couple explicitly sexual lines of dialogue, and they don't feel more explicit than what's in the books. Seeing some of the Alanna/Ihvon/Maksim scenes visually might trigger a more visceral disgust than reading about the Greens and their warders in the books, but the show has really cut out the women breasting about boobily that Jordan threw in every other time there was a female character involved in the narrative.

 

Bottom line, I think the show is a pretty accurate visual representation of Jordan's text depictions of sexuality in this world. If anything, it's tamer, which is Guire's original point in this thread.

Edited May 5 by Kaleb

[Cipher]

3 hours ago, Kaleb said:

I'm a few years younger than you and Guire, but for the record I'm a 48yo white cishet guy who's been reading WOT since I was a super-conservative teenager whose parents held me out of class to take high school sex ed as a correspondence course in the '90s. I'm married with three teenage kids. Demographics aren't the reason y'all are having a problem with this, it's a cultural thing - which is real and valid and I'm not trying to dismiss it. Just don't say you don't get it because you're a middle-aged straight guy.

 

Cipher, I'm curious what vulgar words have been spoken in the show to make you uncomfortable. I can only think of a couple explicitly sexual lines of dialogue, and they don't feel more explicit than what's in the books. Seeing some of the Alanna/Ihvon/Maksim scenes visually might trigger a more visceral disgust than reading about the Greens and their warders in the books, but the show has really cut out the women breasting about boobily that Jordan threw in every other time there was a female character involved in the narrative.

 

Bottom line, I think the show is a pretty accurate visual representation of Jordan's text depictions of sexuality in this world. If anything, it's tamer, which is Guire's original point in this thread.

You are right it is culture.  The sexuality in WoP changes tone and feeling of the material.
 

No language per se—my example of language was a guy in the locker room at work.  Depictions of sexual intimacy are generally what I am complaining about. Allana and her 2 warders rolling around in bed (early S2 episode) is both a ridiculous portrayal of sex and used more like a middle school tee hee hee moment.  Not anything to do with the plot, I guess it is character developmemt(?). Such things were not described in the WoT in the slightest—the closest being Avienda and Rand in Seanchan land.
 

Many of the characters depicted in the show really are not who Jordan made his characters to be.  No relationship between Rand and his 3 loves, Min prolly doesn’t swing that way(?).  We have girls hopping on top girls with no developing of relationships with Elayne and Avienda—it is just titillating girl on girl action IMO.  Nynaeve is not her motherly, know it all, school marm prude from the books.  I like this Nynaeve, but she is a different person. Galad is not himself either, I would argue neither is Gawyn.  Moiraine debating if she is gonna hook up with a Wise One she doesn’t know.  Sex with randos at a drop of a hat.  
 

I like that they showed the sweat tent, and how they kept the nudity to a minimum.

Edited May 5 by Cipher

[Cipher]

Also regarding Moiraine.  She is supposed to be deeply in love with Siuane.  How about she is sexually loyal to Siuane—nope, may be I should go do that.

[Guire]

4 hours ago, Kaleb said:

I'm a few years younger than you and Guire, but for the record I'm a 48yo white cishet guy who's been reading WOT since I was a super-conservative teenager whose parents held me out of class to take high school sex ed as a correspondence course in the '90s. I'm married with three teenage kids. Demographics aren't the reason y'all are having a problem with this, it's a cultural thing - which is real and valid and I'm not trying to dismiss it. Just don't say you don't get it because you're a middle-aged straight guy.

 

Cipher, I'm curious what vulgar words have been spoken in the show to make you uncomfortable. I can only think of a couple explicitly sexual lines of dialogue, and they don't feel more explicit than what's in the books. Seeing some of the Alanna/Ihvon/Maksim scenes visually might trigger a more visceral disgust than reading about the Greens and their warders in the books, but the show has really cut out the women breasting about boobily that Jordan threw in every other time there was a female character involved in the narrative.

 

Bottom line, I think the show is a pretty accurate visual representation of Jordan's text depictions of sexuality in this world. If anything, it's tamer, which is Guire's original point in this thread.

So I grew up in a socially liberal military family with gay and lesbian people as family friends.  Sex was discussed openly and fairly non judgementally.  Culturally I have no worries as far as showing whatever grouping, orientation, or kink.  Before marriage I was around lots of crazy stuff.  WoTPrime just feels like sex is inserted for purely ideological reasons not story reasons.  Or at least other things would have served story better.  Having Rand be Lanfears almost sex slave would have been more interesting to watch.  Having audience wonder if she was manipulating his mind with power.  Having Mo and Siuan be more general and spy in love but still mission first.  I am a sucker for tragic romance but their relationship felt like it was there for representation not as a way build empathy for either character.  This could be execution but I was pretty meh about both characters.

 

The Nyn/Lan and Perrin/Faile relationships felt like they had best chance of being fun to watch, sexy, emotionally engaging.  Both seemed undermined by characterization or time constraints by showing less compelling storylines for reasons.  Lan is basically just a pretty labradoodle for female characters to play off of in this turning.  He is like the picture on a harlequin romance cover.  season one had moments with Lan/Nyn.  But overall I think it is trending downward.  

 

The whole Mat, Salad, Gawaine White Tower thing just felt juvenile and goofy.  And not in a fun way.  I was having 80s late night comedy flashbacks.  

 

So basically having lots of sanitized positive sex just isn't doing it for me.

[Ralph]

15 minutes ago, Guire said:

  

 

The whole Mat, Salad, Gawaine White Tower thing just felt juvenile and goofy.  And not in a fun way.  I was having 80s late night comedy flashbacks.  

 

Assuming misprint for Galad, but I wouldn't mind Salad being the new name for Alanna between two Warders? 

[Guire]

2 hours ago, Ralph said:

Assuming misprint for Galad, but I wouldn't mind Salad being the new name for Alanna between two Warders? 

Maybe Alanna and Maksim will get Galad since his squeeze unlikely to show up.  Hey since she is building a sexy army, she can bond Avhienda, Elayne, Galad, and Thom.  Avhienda can open a portal and they can have their Avengers moment.

[Blueberry]

For me it was surprising to see it so soon in the show.

 

It's been quite a while since I read the books but I recall as a teen enjoying the fact that you got to see these young people grow up through the series. They started out as country bumpkins that were still learning to flirt and that developed along the way; although RJ did like to throw relationships at the readers suddenly so the show has captured that. 

 

I personally liked how RJ tended to go for a "fade to black" approach to those scenes. But I can see your point on how this is making it sex positive, or even sex neutral

 

[expat]

14 hours ago, Blueberry said:

For me it was surprising to see it so soon in the show.

As a TV series, you have to establish the level of sex and violence you plan to show very early in the run so people know what to expect.  You don't want to get viewers invested and then 3 years in hit them with a level of sex/violence they can't accept. 

 

I think that is why the Mo/Lan bath scene and Rand/Eg scene was inserted in EP 1 S1.  It indicated that the viewer should expect mild nudity and some non-explicit sex scenes.  So far, they have stuck to this depiction of sex.