Min’s visions

[Wassup]

So, Min has a vision of Matt stabbing Rand. She assumes it kills Rand. (Loial survived getting stabbed.)

 

However, she had a vision in season 1 of Rand holding a baby. That turned out to be related to the world Ishy showed Rand to convert him to the shadow. It was not real. 
 

Based on this, could this vision also be of an alternate reality or some such thing?  Could this be one of the wounds Rand gets in his side if Matt uses the dagger?

[Windigo]

1 hour ago, Wassup said:

So, Min has a vision of Matt stabbing Rand. She assumes it kills Rand. (Loial survived getting stabbed.)

 

However, she had a vision in season 1 of Rand holding a baby. That turned out to be related to the world Ishy showed Rand to convert him to the shadow. It was not real. 
 

Based on this, could this vision also be of an alternate reality or some such thing?  Could this be one of the wounds Rand gets in his side if Matt uses the dagger?

At this point it could be either, a vision of a vision, or alternate reality. 
 I think too it could very well be that Mat does Stab Rand, whether that is in trying to help him, or because of something else like compulsion I am not sure.


 

Spoiler

The recent episode 7 clip leads me to believe that Mat is being maneuvered and influenced or compulsed quite a bit by one of the forsaken. 

 

[Samt]

At least in the books, Min's visions just represent something.  They don't have to actually be an actual vision of the future.  They can be completely symbolic and don't necessarily mean what Min or anyone else might think they mean.   

[Elder_Haman]

1 hour ago, Samt said:

At least in the books, Min's visions just represent something.  They don't have to actually be an actual vision of the future.  They can be completely symbolic and don't necessarily mean what Min or anyone else might think they mean.   

Yeah. I like Min's book powers better, but that's just me. It would be hard to do well on tv because the symbols could literally mean anything and we would just have to trust Min's interpretations and take her word that they are always true. I think it could be done, but its a harder sell than showing 'actual' visions. (I'm wondering if they will tie Min's abilities to Gitara's somehow.) 

[Windigo]

1 hour ago, Samt said:

At least in the books, Min's visions just represent something.  They don't have to actually be an actual vision of the future.  They can be completely symbolic and don't necessarily mean what Min or anyone else might think they mean.   

This is one complaint on the changes that I agree with. I think they could have done better with Min's visions, I worry that her later frustrations of not knowing the answers and needing to figure them out will be lost. 

 

[Mirefox]

17 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Yeah. I like Min's book powers better, but that's just me. It would be hard to do well on tv because the symbols could literally mean anything and we would just have to trust Min's interpretations and take her word that they are always true. I think it could be done, but its a harder sell than showing 'actual' visions. (I'm wondering if they will tie Min's abilities to Gitara's somehow.) 

 

The writers like their mysteries, though, like the whole "who is the Dragon Reborn" mystery and the "Is Moiraine stilled or shielded" mystery.  I think Min's book visions could work within their storytelling by allowing us to see some cool visions and symbols that might foretell something cool but not telling us exactly what they mean.  The subtlety is interesting.  Instead, we're getting very specific visions like Mat Stabbing rand that they are likely going to use as a fakeout and explain how the vision looked like A) but was really B).

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

I think Min's book visions could work within their storytelling by allowing us to see some cool visions and symbols that might foretell something cool but not telling us exactly what they mean.

Agreed. But the flip side of that problem is that you would never know what they mean as an audience. You'd always have to rely on Min telling you. Which people would later use as a vehicle to call the writing lazy. It's a lose/lose with Min's powers, I think.

 

I still would have preferred something closer to the books. It would serve the character's backstory better, I think if we could be shown how often she sees visions around people and how disruptive that is. Not possible to do that with what they've chosen.

[Mirefox]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

Agreed. But the flip side of that problem is that you would never know what they mean as an audience. You'd always have to rely on Min telling you. Which people would later use as a vehicle to call the writing lazy. It's a lose/lose with Min's powers, I think.

 

I still would have preferred something closer to the books. It would serve the character's backstory better, I think if we could be shown how often she sees visions around people and how disruptive that is. Not possible to do that with what they've chosen.

I'm quick to call out lazy writing, but Min as a vehicle to explain her visions is true to the book.  If that's lazy, fine, but I'd have been happy with a scene where Moiraine asks what she sees and then asks her to interpret what the symbols mean.  Plus, it would make for some cool callbacks. 

 

Imagine if Min had seen a Falcon over Perrin and Moiraine grilled her about it.  The audience would know that the Falcon means something but not know what.  Then next season we see a woman with a Falcon on her bag, or something...

[Elder_Haman]

16 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

I'm quick to call out lazy writing, but Min as a vehicle to explain her visions is true to the book.  If that's lazy, fine, but I'd have been happy with a scene where Moiraine asks what she sees and then asks her to interpret what the symbols mean.  Plus, it would make for some cool callbacks. 

 

Imagine if Min had seen a Falcon over Perrin and Moiraine grilled her about it.  The audience would know that the Falcon means something but not know what.  Then next season we see a woman with a Falcon on her bag, or something...

No argument from me. I definitely would have preferred that. 

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

23 hours ago, Samt said:

At least in the books, Min's visions just represent something.  They don't have to actually be an actual vision of the future.  They can be completely symbolic and don't necessarily mean what Min or anyone else might think they mean.   

That is not wholly true, when Min knew, she knew. It was just that often she did not. Like the eye on the scales, she had no idea. But when she saw the tinker with the blood on her face, or the colours around Logain, she knew, and it was going to happen. 

 

Which then brings us to that book Min would never have told Mat not to go Falme, as she would know that whatever she did or said, that vision was going to come true. If Mat is going to stab Rand, that is what is going to happen. If she tries to interfere either it is going to be ineffective or she'll unwittingly cause what she is trying to prevent. She knows this. Or she should, has she not even read the books? Schoolgirl error on her part.

[Samt]

44 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

That is not wholly true, when Min knew, she knew. It was just that often she did not. Like the eye on the scales, she had no idea. But when she saw the tinker with the blood on her face, or the colours around Logain, she knew, and it was going to happen. 

 

Which then brings us to that book Min would never have told Mat not to go Falme, as she would know that whatever she did or said, that vision was going to come true. If Mat is going to stab Rand, that is what is going to happen. If she tries to interfere either it is going to be ineffective or she'll unwittingly cause what she is trying to prevent. She knows this. Or she should, has she not even read the books? Schoolgirl error on her part.

Sure, sometimes Min knew and she was right.  But sometimes she didn't know and sometimes it didn't really mean what she thought it meant (Alivia?).  My point was more around the fact that things like the colors around Logain are symbolic of something else and not a vision of something that will literally happen.  

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

38 minutes ago, Samt said:

Sure, sometimes Min knew and she was right.  But sometimes she didn't know and sometimes it didn't really mean what she thought it meant (Alivia?).  My point was more around the fact that things like the colors around Logain are symbolic of something else and not a vision of something that will literally happen.  

Yes, absolutely.