FIDDLES-ON-SEA -------- The Pirates Game

[Kivam]

I never said that. I said the cop needs to pick a target at random' date=' and NOT be predictable. If that random target happens to be Sirayn, then by all means, do it.

 

If you honestly believe that we should tell the cop who to investigate in a place where the Pirates can hear, then you are trying to get Sirayn killed. I explained earlier why this would happen, and the fact that you are trying to cast doubt on me based on this sets a red spot on my scumdar. Let me lay it out for those who still don't get it...

 

If the Pirates KNOW that our cop is going to investigate Sirayn, [b']they will kill her tonight.[/b] They will do this BECAUSE of what we would gain from an innocent result. If she is a confirmed townie, she becomes a huge threat to the Pirates. She's vocal, a good analyst, and she would become someone who we would not suspect when throwing our votes around. Basically, she would narrow the number of POSSIBLE scummies on the list, making it more likely that we lynch the right person tomorrow. In order to PREVENT this, -let me say it again-, the pirates will kill Sirayn tonight if they know we are going to investigate her.

 

unless, of course, they think the doc is going to protect Sirayn, which will make it a wasted nightkill attempt. And the doc SHOULD protect Sirayn, so the cop's investigation will not go for naught. (And if Sirayn is evil, this all but guarantees I get nightkilled tonight - but c'est la vie, and if that's what it takes to win, I can live with it).

 

Secondly' date=' in order to confirm her, our cop would have to claim tomorrow. This is BAD, because without confirmation of a scum, there is NO reason why our cop should claim this early on. Cop claiming = bad because if our doc dies, so does our cop, and along with him, our information.

 

Now, one could also argue that our doc could protect Sirayn tonight. This is true. However, like I said, our cop will have to claim tomorrow. This is a HUGE issue, because we then have two people who REQUIRE protection, and the pirates KNOW this. Therefore, when night three rolls around, Sirayn will die, because the cop has a powerful role and will gain the protection of the doc over Sirayn.

 

I'm not trying to undermine anyone. However, you can't tell me that what I predict doesn't make sense. [/quote']

 

Actually, I can tell you that what you predict makes no sense. Because the finder would only reveal if Sirayn is evil . If Sirayn is innocent, they say nothing - and we all understand the silence as a confirmation of her innocence. The only way that comes back to bite us is if the evil team randomly manages to kill the finder on night one. If that did happen, AND Sirayn was evil, then we'd be screwed. But that's a very very long shot.

 

No, the only way the finder would need to reveal to confirm Sirayn's innocence was if there were some doubt about whether the finder looked at Sirayn in the first place.

 

Doubt which, incidentally, you are trying to create.

 

 

 

In order for someone to give off no information from a night kill would require that they had not voted' date=' spoken, or been voted for.[/quote']

 

Or have had such minimal impact as to allow little to no deductions to be based on their innocence. I can think of at least one or two players that fit that bill off the top of my head (though I won't list them so as not to make them targets).

 

 

Well, Kison, congrats. This last one's convinced me.

 

Unvote Zy, Vote Kison

[GoodGrief]

I had a list of things to say in response to Kison's last post, but Kivam pretty much covered them.

 

Except this:

If Sira is innocent, she is already a target. We could lose her unless she is protected. We also need to know very quickly whether or not she evil, and I'm prepared to assume that silence on the part of the finder tomorrow means that Sira is innocent, because if I was the finder I'd investigate her tonight without needing to be told.

Also based on what I'd do in that situation, I'd be afraid not to investigate her for fear that others would take (or use) my silence the next day to confirm her innocence, which I can see a few people doing.

 

In fact, the only reason the finder shouldn't investigate Sira tonight is if the finder is Sira.

 

So, I'm voting Kison for reason of generally suspicious recommendations and also the fact that Kison+Kivam is getting really confusing to keep straight in my head, so one of them has to go *nods*

[Kivam]

Do we really have a reason on him? In that case we have a reason on everyone who voted loki then and I really don't believe there are 6 evils in this game. But this just seems like I'm defending the Kison cause' date=' but I'm not, I'm defending a neutral cause. I say the same to Kivam I mean why isn't it a Zy - Winter Mist - The Dude(or anyone else who voted loki) team? or Zy - Sira - Barm(or anyone else who voted loki)? Huh? Sira and WM both changed votes from me to loki afterwards. So seriously I'm saying we're all about at the same level of guiltiness/innocence here.[/quote']

 

Because what's suspicious about Kison is not that he voted for Loki - it's pretty much everything.

 

I made that super clear in my post, listing three separate reasons why he looks suspicious.

 

That you would set up a straw man (he wasn't the only one to vote for loki) to defend him (and you are defending him) makes me more secure in the troika I've picked.

 

(And folks, if it is those three - how cool would that be to have nailed them all day 1? Which, of course, is why it's probably not them - I'm just not that cool :D )

[Winter Mist]

I need to think a bit more about this. I'll post when I've had a bit more time to read through this and form an opinion.

[Sirayn]

Sorry my attention has been on and off this game. I'm distracted. :( I'm going to make a proper reread at some point, but for the moment, I'm just popping in and out.

 

I can't believe you got within one vote of lynching loki and still let him get modkilled. Now we're down one innocent and we haven't even lynched yet. :?

 

I'm, er, flattered that every role in the game is now being urged to target me tonight. Flattered in a slightly dubious way. It's going to be like Picadilly Circus round here - I hope the mod is braced for all the night actions. Just please don't forget the heal! I have this aversion to being killed at night ever since I was offed at a crucial moment and everyone ignored the evil team I'd been pointing fingers at. Don't let me wake up to, well, not waking up.

 

PS: I wouldn't normally say this, because the point of findering is obviously to find the evil team, but I'm actually rather keen to be investigated. I'm obviously being a huge distraction at the moment so the team benefits if I get removed as a potential innocent and, as a purely selfish thing, I enjoy being a confirmed innocent.

 

So ... let me recap ... we now have 8-9 innocents and 2-3 evil players left. If you still don't believe a 2-evil scenario is possible or probable, cross out as applicable. :roll: I'm not liking the Kison lynch at the moment because he seems to be mildly concerned about my continued survival and I do like to live.

 

I hate to look like I'm harping on modkills here, but I'd like to draw all your attention to the fact that Toy and Minion has posted a grand total of twice - unhelpful comments on page three and a vote with no reasoning on page five. And that was on Tuesday. Are we really going to let a second player get modkilled before we lynch today? It's going to take more than a single heal to get us back the day we're about to lose. (edit: that's right, isn't it? 1 extra innocent death = 1 heal or no-lynch necessary?)

 

What is it with activity this game? I know I haven't been the most active player, but I try to make a substantial post once a day as a minimum, and not posting for almost 72 hours by my watch is just not cool. It seriously prejudices the innocent team's chances and there's nothing you can do about it other than try damage control.

 

Toy and Minion - post or die. Literally.

[Zylazlo-]

I'm gonna be off for most of the day, but not without saying a few things. I still don't neccesarily believe Kison is guilty because hell, you made a pretty good case on me and I know where that'll lead, so Kison could just as easily be innocent.

 

So for now I'm holding my vote on bay until I get back.

[the dude]

i'll go for kison. think it might pay dividends.

[Kison]

i'll go for kison. think it might pay dividends.

 

Give a reason.

[the dude]

:D terse today, are we?

 

i'm afraid that at the moment i would prefer to keep my specific reasons to myself. it's all here to be found, but i don't want to outline it right now; counter to my chosen course of action...

[Kivam]

So . . . Sirayn finally posts - and her suggestion is that we target another probable innocent, who's already posted, because of the possibility of a modkill? When the mod has said nothing about it? While, incidentally, calling the mods attention to the inactivity and increasing the likelihood of a modkill? Without any real reason to believe the player is a pirate or that we'll get any information from his death? Putting is down 3 innocents on day 1 and without any info to start day 2??

 

Um . . . Yeah. Sounds reasonable.

[Winter Mist]

There's something not quite right going on that I can't put my finger on. I'm not sure about the vote on Kison, and I agree about Sirayn's post on activity in a game like this being a sort of necessity.

[Guest Barmacral]

I'm going to cast my vote back to GoodGrief in order to get that circle of love going again while I decide on who I should actually vote for... both sides have tough arguments there.

[Kison]

I never said that. I said the cop needs to pick a target at random' date=' and NOT be predictable. If that random target happens to be Sirayn, then by all means, do it.

 

If you honestly believe that we should tell the cop who to investigate in a place where the Pirates can hear, then you are trying to get Sirayn killed. I explained earlier why this would happen, and the fact that you are trying to cast doubt on me based on this sets a red spot on my scumdar. Let me lay it out for those who still don't get it...

 

If the Pirates KNOW that our cop is going to investigate Sirayn, [b']they will kill her tonight.[/b] They will do this BECAUSE of what we would gain from an innocent result. If she is a confirmed townie, she becomes a huge threat to the Pirates. She's vocal, a good analyst, and she would become someone who we would not suspect when throwing our votes around. Basically, she would narrow the number of POSSIBLE scummies on the list, making it more likely that we lynch the right person tomorrow. In order to PREVENT this, -let me say it again-, the pirates will kill Sirayn tonight if they know we are going to investigate her.

 

unless, of course, they think the doc is going to protect Sirayn, which will make it a wasted nightkill attempt. And the doc SHOULD protect Sirayn, so the cop's investigation will not go for naught. (And if Sirayn is evil, this all but guarantees I get nightkilled tonight - but c'est la vie, and if that's what it takes to win, I can live with it).

 

Yes, you are on the right track, yet you still are not seeing the deeper problem with announcing an investigation. Sirayn will be killed in the end, if not tonight because of a doctor protection. However, I'll get into this later.

 

You are right about the scenario that will almost definitely unfold tonight as a result of announcing the investigation. The doctor will most likely protect Sirayn, and as a result, scum will not target her for a kill. However, there is a minor issue that could have been very easily prevented had you NOT asked for this investigation. What is that? A 100% guaranteed scum-kill for tonight. Our doc's protection has basically been wasted because he/she will, as a result of this, see it necessary to protect Sirayn. Scum will therefore be unwilling to take that risk, and go for someone who is not being protected, ensuring that they get the kill off.

 

Secondly' date=' in order to confirm her, our cop would have to claim tomorrow. This is BAD, because without confirmation of a scum, there is NO reason why our cop should claim this early on. Cop claiming = bad because if our doc dies, so does our cop, and along with him, our information.

 

Now, one could also argue that our doc could protect Sirayn tonight. This is true. However, like I said, our cop will have to claim tomorrow. This is a HUGE issue, because we then have two people who REQUIRE protection, and the pirates KNOW this. Therefore, when night three rolls around, Sirayn will die, because the cop has a powerful role and will gain the protection of the doc over Sirayn.

 

I'm not trying to undermine anyone. However, you can't tell me that what I predict doesn't make sense. [/quote']

 

Actually, I can tell you that what you predict makes no sense. Because the finder would only reveal if Sirayn is evil . If Sirayn is innocent, they say nothing - and we all understand the silence as a confirmation of her innocence. The only way that comes back to bite us is if the evil team randomly manages to kill the finder on night one. If that did happen, AND Sirayn was evil, then we'd be screwed. But that's a very very long shot.

 

Good point. However, it's not good enough. What you suggest is hardly confirmation that our cop actually complied with our wishes, nor is it confirmation that our cop is active, paying attention, or not following up on a hunch of his/her own. This creates uncertainty. Although not the most likely scenario, it's a devastating one if it winds up happening.

 

If Sira is innocent' date=' she is already a target. We could lose her unless she is protected. We also need to know very quickly whether or not she evil, and I'm prepared to assume that silence on the part of the finder tomorrow means that Sira is innocent, because if I was the finder I'd investigate her tonight without needing to be told.[/quote']

 

First, yes, Sirayn, as an innocent, would be a target, just as we all are. Doc should have been smart enough to figure this out and protect her on his own. However, the method WE ARE CURRENTLY USING basically guarantees that attempting to kill Sirayn tonight is a bad idea. Had we done all this in silence, doc could have protected Sirayn, scum could have tried to kill her. One fewer deaths tonight. Likely? Not necessarily. Possible? Could have been. Is it now? No.

 

Because what's suspicious about Kison is not that he voted for Loki - it's pretty much everything.

 

Do you not agree that going to night with one lost innocent is better than going to night with two lost innocents?

 

 

:D terse today' date=' are we?

 

i'm afraid that at the moment i would prefer to keep my specific reasons to myself. it's all here to be found, but i don't want to outline it right now; counter to my chosen course of action...[/quote']

 

I'm keeping my eye on you. I dislike votes with no reasons, so get back to me on that one.

 

Vote : Barmacral.

 

Unfortunately, your vote seems completely baseless. At least there's a case against me in the dude's case(though you could argue band-wagoning). You're still randomly throwing votes around. Post some content.

[the dude]

well, kison, it's just that in some cases explaining is worse than not explaining. sort of (but certainly not exactly) like what you're saying about these calls for protection and viewings. sometimes, it's time to talk, sometimes, it's time to see what happens.

[Kison]

well' date=' kison, it's just that in some cases explaining is worse than not explaining. sort of (but certainly not exactly) like what you're saying about these calls for protection and viewings. sometimes, it's time to talk, sometimes, it's time to see what happens.[/quote']

 

Tell me, what are you afraid of that is causing you not to explain yourself?

[the dude]

well, explaining would defeat that, wouldn't it? 8)

[Kison]

well' date=' explaining would defeat that, wouldn't it? 8)[/quote']

 

There's only one thing I can see that would cause it to defeat it, and since I'm not a pirate, I know that isn't it. The only thing I can think of is that you are afraid of retaliation. And if that is the case, then you should be voted simply for holding stuff back for that reason. You would basically be saying "I have a reason that I know no-one will like." If we wouldn't like it, then there's probably a good reason for it.

[the dude]

that's a little over-simplified as an explanation, as there are lots of other reasons. i have my reasons, and i stand by them, but in a game like this, it's not always good to explain them.

[Kison]

that's a little over-simplified as an explanation' date=' as there are lots of other reasons. i have my reasons, and i stand by them, but in a game like this, it's not always good to explain them.[/quote']

 

And why is it not good to explain them? I gave a reason why it is not good to withhold reasoning, and you have failed to provide a reason for the contrary.

[Kivam]

A quick aside. I'm posting on my blackberry on my way back from a deposition on staten island - yeah, I'm that addicted already - and likely won't be able to sign onto my computer before the Sabbath starts here in NY. So, I highly recommend voting Kison (who knows full well that going to night and getting no info would be a huge mistake) even if I am silent for the next 30 hours or so.

 

And, since I'm fairly certain I won't survive the night and I'd like the chance to post after seeing the coroner results of our lynch, PLEASE do not end the night and start day 2 before Sunday morning.

 

Thanks guys, and have a good weekend.

[the dude]

that's a little over-simplified as an explanation' date=' as there are lots of other reasons. i have my reasons, and i stand by them, but in a game like this, it's not always good to explain them.[/quote']

 

And why is it not good to explain them? I gave a reason why it is not good to withhold reasoning, and you have failed to provide a reason for the contrary.

 

8) i haven't failed to do it. i've opted not to. 8)

[Kison]

that's a little over-simplified as an explanation' date=' as there are lots of other reasons. i have my reasons, and i stand by them, but in a game like this, it's not always good to explain them.[/quote']

 

And why is it not good to explain them? I gave a reason why it is not good to withhold reasoning, and you have failed to provide a reason for the contrary.

 

8) i haven't failed to do it. i've opted not to. 8)

 

Unvote

Vote : the dude

[Kison]

Essentially, what you're doing is hopping onto a bandwagon. I sort of don't believe that you have some "hidden reason" that for some "hidden reason" you cannot explain.

[the dude]

hahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahaha.

[Kison]

hahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahaha.

 

Glad that you agree.