Did Robert Jordan ever explain if there where links between the Aiel and Seanchan?

[Scarloc99]

Re reading the series it is starting to stand out more and more to me that there are some very clear cultural similarities between different cultures in the WOT universe. I wonder if these have a common source either from the age of Legends, or even later on when Artur Hawkwing ruled the land. 

One main example I wonder if there has ever been an explanation about is between Aiel and Seanchan, 2 cultures that should never have interacted before the end of the 3rd age. 

One link between the 2 in my mind are the Aiel Gai'shain and Seanchan Da'covale, yes I know they are very different in many ways but there are also large similarities. But I also wonder if the 2 words both come from the same source Da'shain? The main similarities are the refusal to pick up a weapon or fight even when threatened? The Da'covale take this further killing themselves if there master/mistress dies (as seen in TGH). The differences of course are how one is made, and, the amount of time one exists in that role. 

I am intrigued by any other similarities between the cultures as well, and if it suggests links back to the 2nd age. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Sir_Charrid

[wotfan4472]

No, it is implicit in the fact that, like Shara, Seanchan was in a state of war from the Breaking onwards. The Seancahn general that helped Perrin rescue Faile from Malden herself even stated that they had nothing like the Aiel, or the gai'shain.

 

Da'covale is most likely a memory of a forgotten Forsaken enslaving the people in that territory at the time. Just as the helmets the Seanchan military wear are identical to those worn in the Age Of Legends battlefields, yet they do not remember the war, like the Randland nations remember stories of them, thanks to the gleemen.

[Kalessin]

I've always thought that Seanchan was the region (or rather, its remains following the Breaking) that the Dark One and its forces had held onto the longest. The way the Aes Sedai in Seanchan behave when Luthair Paendrag gets there, each fighting and killing, using the power for personal gain, without a remnant of the Hall of Servants to show them a more generous way (Randland had the White Tower as its rebuilt Hall of the Servants), is reminiscent of how the Forsaken behaved, fighting amongst each other - come to think of it, tthat's how Luthair Paendrag's descendants behave as well. Tuon's survived that horror of sibling against sibling ... I suspect her father didn't against his wife ...

 

While da'covale and dashain share the common prefix "da", indicating a person.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Kalessin

[Scarloc99]

That would indicate that similar link I was looking for, but more indirectly. If the Seanchan continent had the largest influence from the Forsaken, with less cultural political upheaval, then it would make sense they would hold on to some form of the traditions of the age of legends, all be it in a twisted corrupted form. I can see the Forsaken enjoying corrupting the Da'shain ideals into their own form of Slavery. In my own head I always assumed the armies of Artur Hawkwing took all those traditions to the Seanchan lands, but actually it makes more sense that over time they would become more and more native and that those traditions where taken from the lands they conquered. 

I have then always seen Gai'shain as an Aiel hold on to a life long forgotten, a tradition that they don't truly understand comes in some form from their original purpose. Servants never allowed to hold a weapon. I imagine the tradition started before the tribes where called to Rhuidean and understood the truth of their past. 

It may be that the Aiel and Seanchan in their own way hold onto the oldest of the traditions of the age of legends, just in a very twisted misunderstood way. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Sir_Charrid

[DojoToad]

No clue as to the distance, but if there was any long lost connection for the Seanchan, I would have put it with Shara.  Both cultures had strict controls on channelers.  If you go back far enough , could Sharans (or some subset) have emigrated to the west coast of the Seanchan continent?

[Scarloc99]

2 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

No clue as to the distance, but if there was any long lost connection for the Seanchan, I would have put it with Shara.  Both cultures had strict controls on channelers.  If you go back far enough , could Sharans (or some subset) have emigrated to the west coast of the Seanchan continent?

Although the Seanchan control of Channellers did not begin until after the Armies of Artur Hawkwing arrived. That makes sense to me, he was manipulated to hate the Aes Sedai and it makes sense his children would have been equally as manipulated (maybe the plan all along was that they would "cull" the far more powerful channellers across the ocean so they would not one day come to aid the dragon reborn). 

[Kalessin]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:36 PM, Sir_Charrid said:

That would indicate that similar link I was looking for, but more indirectly. If the Seanchan continent had the largest influence from the Forsaken, with less cultural political upheaval, then it would make sense they would hold on to some form of the traditions of the age of legends, all be it in a twisted corrupted form. I can see the Forsaken enjoying corrupting the Da'shain ideals into their own form of Slavery. In my own head I always assumed the armies of Artur Hawkwing took all those traditions to the Seanchan lands, but actually it makes more sense that over time they would become more and more native and that those traditions where taken from the lands they conquered. 

I have then always seen Gai'shain as an Aiel hold on to a life long forgotten, a tradition that they don't truly understand comes in some form from their original purpose. Servants never allowed to hold a weapon. I imagine the tradition started before the tribes where called to Rhuidean and understood the truth of their past. 

It may be that the Aiel and Seanchan in their own way hold onto the oldest of the traditions of the age of legends, just in a very twisted misunderstood way. 

Gai'shain is a form of Da'shain's purpose, adapted from the Da'shian Aiel's vow to do no harm to anyone. If at any stage the Forsaken twisted Da'shain into Da'covale, that happened well before the Breaking. One gets the feeling that Da'shain Aiel were at the most, objects of contempt and mockery for the Forsaken - you remember Lanfear exclaiming at the way the Aiel have changed, from the Age of Legends, where you could beat one up and all he (or she) would do is ask, if he had offended you?

 

I imagine it would've delighted some of the more disgruntled of the Forsaken to thus pick on the least harmful of their opponents in that way. But there is nothing about it in any of the stories we have, so I think I'll stop right there.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Kalessin

[Elendir]

I don't see any similarity between Da'covale and Gai'shain.

Gai'shain is about personal commitment and oath.

Da'covale is classic way, how to make manpower, you don't need to pay and you can use in any way you wish. Look to humankind history and you will find, that any non-humanistic civilization made some form like this, whether it was slavery, the caste system, or serfdom.