what do you think?

[9kindsofidiot]

Hello everyone! I've been a long-time reader of the forums here at Dragonmount, but a rather in-frequent poster. This is my first poll, so wish me luck.

 

Has RJ ever been asked whether or not the Dragon's soul was spun out between Rand and LTT? This got me thinking what the average span between rebirths is and whether or not it is different for the Dragon. I've seen a few theories that the Dragon is tied to the Wheel the same as the Heroes of the Horn only much more strongly. This would explain the Heroes recognition of the Dragon at Falme.

 

I have a feeling that either way it is a long time between rebirths. Some evidence is with the other ta'veren. Mat had at least been spun out during Manetheren's time on account of his Old Tongue battle-cry outbursts early in the series (before the foxes). But we don't have any indication of other lives for Mat than this. We also have no evidence for Perrin, especially since the existance of wolfbrothers in this Age seems to be a fairly recent occurence. That's not to say that Perrin's soul would always be a wolfbrother though.

 

Now, I can't seem to remember Birgitte's problem with her memories. :? Is it that the farthest back she can remember is from the White Tower founding (meaning she's had other lives between then and now)? Or is it that that life is the last one she remembers? Her situation may shed some light on this question.

 

So what does everyone else think?

[Shai-tan]

Did not Egwene also have "Old Tongue battle-cry outbursts" early on...

[Arawn Telamon]

For Mat, I think that he is actually King Aemon reborn. In book 3 Mat remembers himself giving orders to the defence of Manetheran which when thinking about it would be Aemon giving orders to the army facing the troloc hordes.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Egwene almost recognized what Mat was saying. The old blood running true is not the same as being reborn. There is nothing to suggest that either Mat or Perrin are heroes reborn.

 

If I remember correctly, Birgitte does mention most memmories, pre White Tower, had faded. That is a definite indication she lived multiple lives since the breaking.

 

We have other quotes to support more frequent rebirt of heroes, including the Dragon. At one point Thom talks about tales that he is quite certain are about Birgitte even though the name is different. Additionally, in The Great Hunt Hawkwing tells Rand that they have opposed eachother as often as they have fought together. Our only confirmed accounts of either do not put them in the same time frame, so there are "undocumented/unrecognized" reincarnations of one of both of them.

 

If you want to earn a "total nutcase" classification, try reading the meeting between Rand/LTT and Artur Hawkwing mentioned above, and then the BWB sections on Hawkwing. There are some interesting things that are alluded to which have potential relevance to this topic.

[Guest cwestervelt]

For Mat' date=' I think that he is actually King Aemon reborn. In book 3 Mat remembers himself giving orders to the defence of Manetheran which when thinking about it would be Aemon giving orders to the army facing the troloc hordes.[/quote']

 

Not necessarily or even likely. Not everyone is reborn. Only those that are bound to the wheel, and we have no information to say that Aemon was one such person. Aemon had generals that would have given just as many or more orders concerning the defense Aemon himself. There are also indications that none of Mat's extra memories, pre or post Doorway, are from any high ranking nobility, and the the King of Menetheren is about as high ranking as you can get.

[rd2000]

Manatheren was a HUGE nation, larger than Andor is in Rand-land now. It must have had many, many generals that could be the source of Mat's memories.

[Guest Majsju]

For Mat' date=' I think that he is actually King Aemon reborn. In book 3 Mat remembers himself giving orders to the defence of Manetheran which when thinking about it would be Aemon giving orders to the army facing the troloc hordes.[/quote']

 

Not necessarily or even likely. Not everyone is reborn. Only those that are bound to the wheel, and we have no information to say that Aemon was one such person. Aemon had generals that would have given just as many or more orders concerning the defense Aemon himself. There are also indications that none of Mat's extra memories, pre or post Doorway, are from any high ranking nobility, and the the King of Menetheren is about as high ranking as you can get.

 

Uhm, everyone is reborn, that's how a world with recycling works. You're probably thinking about being reborn as someone significant, like the heroes tied to the Horn.

[Jedimuppet]

For Mat' date=' I think that he is actually King Aemon reborn. In book 3 Mat remembers himself giving orders to the defence of Manetheran which when thinking about it would be Aemon giving orders to the army facing the troloc hordes.[/quote']

 

Not necessarily or even likely. Not everyone is reborn. Only those that are bound to the wheel, and we have no information to say that Aemon was one such person. Aemon had generals that would have given just as many or more orders concerning the defense Aemon himself. There are also indications that none of Mat's extra memories, pre or post Doorway, are from any high ranking nobility, and the the King of Menetheren is about as high ranking as you can get.

 

Uhm, everyone is reborn, that's how a world with recycling works. You're probably thinking about being reborn as someone significant, like the heroes tied to the Horn.

 

Mat's not the reincarnation of the men whose memories he has in his head. The Finn's gave him those memories from people on whom they had fed.

J

[SinisterDeath]

Statistically, it is possible, that at least one of those people in his head, is him in a past lifetime. :P

[Guest Majsju]

For Mat' date=' I think that he is actually King Aemon reborn. In book 3 Mat remembers himself giving orders to the defence of Manetheran which when thinking about it would be Aemon giving orders to the army facing the troloc hordes.[/quote']

 

Not necessarily or even likely. Not everyone is reborn. Only those that are bound to the wheel, and we have no information to say that Aemon was one such person. Aemon had generals that would have given just as many or more orders concerning the defense Aemon himself. There are also indications that none of Mat's extra memories, pre or post Doorway, are from any high ranking nobility, and the the King of Menetheren is about as high ranking as you can get.

 

Uhm, everyone is reborn, that's how a world with recycling works. You're probably thinking about being reborn as someone significant, like the heroes tied to the Horn.

 

Mat's not the reincarnation of the men whose memories he has in his head. The Finn's gave him those memories from people on whom they had fed.

J

 

The memories Mat has in book 3 are his own, since he hasn't entered any of the doorways yet...