Accents in the Show

[Raal Gurniss]

6 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

 

Not really people got their accents before TV it would have made no difference .

 

Unless you cast from a reaaaly small micro area is was always going to be the case. Like I said 3 miles way from me it's a very different accent.

 

And all the NZ/Aus/Indian/Brit/Irish actors speak RP anyway if the were taught in an Acting School so anywhere you go they are all speaking the same to begin with ,as it is how they are trained

 

6 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

 

Not really people got their accents before TV it would have made no difference .

 

Unless you cast from a reaaaly small micro area is was always going to be the case. Like I said 3 miles way from me it's a very different accent.

 

And all the NZ/Aus/Indian/Brit/Irish actors speak RP anyway if the were taught in an Acting School so anywhere you go they are all speaking the same to begin with ,as it is how they are trained

Not quite sure where you are getting that TV creates or even speeds the process in making such regional accents.

 

My point was that widespread communication such as TV or Radio would actually reduce such as gradually either a dominant form would take over or a gradual merging of multiple would occur.

 

With no TV or Radio coverage and no trains, planes and automobiles etc regional accents would gradually become stronger and become noticeably different the further away you travel from that region.

 

 

5 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

Sometimes it works but mostly it does not . I give you Christophe Lambear (Highlander) and Jessica Lange (Rob Roy) terrible ,most of Outlander where you had Dutch,Irish,English actors trying to do an Inverness accent

 

Or Chris Pine /Aaron T-Johnson in Outlaw King where they gave it a good shot

It doesn't really matter, its just verisimilitude and only becomes an issue if someone then tries to insert a faction that does have regional accents that highlight that all the other regions don't have accents.

[Andra]

10 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

Dublin,Belfast,Kerry,Cork all completely different accents. In 1 case because Irish and Ullans sound nothing like each other and are a different language

Edinburgh,Glasgow,Aberdeen,Dundee all completey different accent

Nottingham accent sounds nothing like a Brummy

 

A lot of it is  class as Rose Leslie and Tunji Kasim(Nancy Drew) sound nothing alike even though they were born in the same hospital ,in the same year

 

So it goes

Gaelic    - Irish and Scottish are different

Scots      - Ullans , Dorric , Lallans all different

English  - where 10 mins away from me somebody can sound different throught   the area they live ,to class where Rosumund and OG Mat sound nothing like each other despite growing up in the same City. And NG Mat will sound nothing like Avi as one is from Dublin and the other is from Cork . Or me sounding different from a Weegie when I grew up 8 miles away

 

ETA and no the topic had went into 'Why do all the TR people sound different' and I was explaining that 1 town over from me has a different accent

Yes, to locals, those accents are all obviously different from each other.  In the same way that to Americans, all of our regional accents are obviously different from each other.  But to non-local speakers, they are similar enough that they can't tell them apart.  Non-local speakers have difficulty distinguishing Scots from Irish, and likely don't even hear the differences within either of them. 

But they can hear the difference between say, Dubliner and Cockney.

 

Which means that, just as Logain and the King of Ghealdan come from hundreds of miles apart in Spain, and likely have accents that are obviously different (to Spaniards), they sound similar enough to everyone else to make them both being Ghealdanan work fine on screen.  In the same way, Aiel each having some version of an accent like Irish or Scots - or possibly even Welsh - would work on screen.  Even though it would make locals in any of those areas cringe.

 

I think the problem people have with the accents on the show isn't so much that there's too much of a mix in any one place, though that is part of it.  It's that there's no difference between the mix in one tiny, isolated place and another place thousands of miles away.  While in the book, Two Rivers folk sounded enough alike - and different from people in Caemlyn - that Morgase could tell Rand wasn't lying about where he was from, when literally everyone else in the room thought he was Aiel by his appearance.

 

In the show, Two Rivers folk don't all even sound like they're all from the same continent.

[Humbugged2]

5 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

 

Not quite sure where you are getting that TV creates or even speeds the process in making such regional accents.

 

My point was that widespread communication such as TV or Radio would actually reduce such as gradually either a dominant form would take over or a gradual merging of multiple would occur.

 

With no TV or Radio coverage and no trains, planes and automobiles etc regional accents would gradually become stronger and become noticeably different the further away you travel from that region.

 

 

It doesn't really matter, its just verisimilitude and only becomes an issue if someone then tries to insert a faction that does have regional accents that highlight that all the other regions don't have accents.

Or Jessica Lange and Lambear were shit at doing a Scots accent ( hello Mel Gibson ) JL is the worst I have even heard Groundskeeper Willie was better

 

And everthing you have said is wrong TV and all the local shows has encouraged people to actually  hold onto there accents . People do not want to speak Mid-Atantic ,they do it for parts

 

Why would you want to sound like Sheena Easton ?

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Humbugged2

[Humbugged2]

1 hour ago, Andra said:

Yes, to locals, those accents are all obviously different from each other.  In the same way that to Americans, all of our regional accents are obviously different from each other.  But to non-local speakers, they are similar enough that they can't tell them apart.  Non-local speakers have difficulty distinguishing Scots from Irish, and likely don't even hear the differences within either of them. 

But they can hear the difference between say, Dubliner and Cockney.

 

Which means that, just as Logain and the King of Ghealdan come from hundreds of miles apart in Spain, and likely have accents that are obviously different (to Spaniards), they sound similar enough to everyone else to make them both being Ghealdanan work fine on screen.  In the same way, Aiel each having some version of an accent like Irish or Scots - or possibly even Welsh - would work on screen.  Even though it would make locals in any of those areas cringe.

 

I think the problem people have with the accents on the show isn't so much that there's too much of a mix in any one place, though that is part of it.  It's that there's no difference between the mix in one tiny, isolated place and another place thousands of miles away.  While in the book, Two Rivers folk sounded enough alike - and different from people in Caemlyn - that Morgase could tell Rand wasn't lying about where he was from, when literally everyone else in the room thought he was Aiel by his appearance.

 

In the show, Two Rivers folk don't all even sound like they're all from the same continent.

In the Two Rivers the actors are 80-85% Brits with the rest having done RP  at stage school where they grew up

 

And once again did you expect the whole of TR to be cast from a 3 mile area ?

 

 

[Raal Gurniss]

26 minutes ago, Humbugged2 said:

Or Jessica Lange and Lambear were shit at doing a Scots accent ( hello Mel Gibson ) JL is the worst I have even heard Groundskeeper Willie was better

 

And everthing you have said is wrong TV and all the local shows has encouraged people to actually  hold onto there accents . People do not want to speak Mid-Atantic ,they do it for parts

 

Why would you want to sound like Sheena Easton ?

 

 

You must understand that globally  thousands of regional accents have gone with the advent of faster transport and improved media and communication? 
 

The UK is a prime example, give it a Google..

 

More will be lost than will be saved.

[Andra]

1 hour ago, Humbugged2 said:

And once again did you expect the whole of TR to be cast from a 3 mile area ?

 

 

No, just to have made even the barest attempt to sound like they did.  And from a different place than people living a thousand miles away.

[Raal Gurniss]

25 minutes ago, Humbugged2 said:

In the Two Rivers the actors are 80-85% Brits with the rest having done RP  at stage school where they grew up

 

And once again did you expect the whole of TR to be cast from a 3 mile area ?

 

 

....Point is the verisimilitude I mean what if the whole population of TR each spoke an entirely different language(Never mind accent) for instance?
 

I mean it would require some exposition wouldn't it? 
 

It's not a big issue anyway, it's a fantasy show after all, it doesn't have to make that much sense.

 

 

[Andra]

6 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

My point was that widespread communication such as TV or Radio would actually reduce such as gradually either a dominant form would take over or a gradual merging of multiple would occur.

Which is why the "General British" and "General American" accents even exist.

 

1 hour ago, Humbugged2 said:

And everthing you have said is wrong TV and all the local shows has encouraged people to actually  hold onto there accents . People do not want to speak Mid-Atantic ,they do it for parts

Sorry, but the experience of the birth of non-stressed national accents in the 20th century objectively demonstrates that this is precisely what has happened.

 

"TV British" and "TV American" are very real things.  They are heard on the nightly news in both places, and have served to decrease the audible differences between the regional accents in both countries.

[Humbugged2]

2 minutes ago, Andra said:

No, just to have made even the barest attempt to sound like they did.  And from a different place than people living a thousand miles away.

No all within 200 miles of each and the one who don't speak RP but 85 % Brits

[Andra]

4 minutes ago, Humbugged2 said:

No all within 200 miles of each and the one who don't speak RP but 85 % Brits

But they wouldn't be from "within 200 miles" of each other.  They would be from the same village.

 

And not the same village as everyone in Fal Dara or Tar Valon.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Andra

[Humbugged2]

Just now, Andra said:

Which is why the "General British" and "General American" accents even exist.

 

Sorry, but the experience of the birth of non-stressed national accents in the 20th century objectively demonstrates that this is precisely what has happened.

 

"TV British" and "TV American" are very real things.  They are heard on the nightly news in both places, and have served to decrease the audible differences between the regional accents in both countries.

 

And is all garbage RP  is wildy criticized in Britain as an attempt to keep working class actors out a jab

[Andra]

12 minutes ago, Humbugged2 said:

 

And is all garbage RP  is wildy criticized in Britain as an attempt to keep working class actors out a jab

People with strong regional accents may resent it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Nor will their resentment have any impact on its continued existence.

 

And that existence throughout the country (rather than just among people who attended certain schools) is entirely due to the widespread appearance of first radio, then television.

[Humbugged2]

1 hour ago, Andra said:

But they wouldn't be from "within 200 miles" of each other.  They would be from the same village.

 

And not the same village as everyone in Fal Dara or Tar Valon.

How would you do it ?

 

So hire Yanks who cannot do an accent to do it which is how this has mainly gone . Was there all this fuss when the Stark sibs and parents came from all over the UK/Ireland - a Scot, a posh English guy,a guy from Kent, an Irish kid, a girl from Northants ,one from Bristol ,Mama was Irish and her brother was English ,her sister was a Scot as was her Uncle and Daddy was a guy from Sheffield?

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Humbugged2

[Humbugged2]

3 minutes ago, Andra said:

People with strong regional accents may resent it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Nor will their resentment have any impact on its continued existence.

 

And that existence throughout the country (rather than just among people who attended certain schools) is entirely due to the widespread appearance of first radio, then television.

But it has stopped happening here ,hence Peter Capaldi,Karen Gillan,James McAvoy  etc etc

[Andra]

2 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

How would you do it ?

 

I would do it the way Rafe said he was going to do it.

Pick one prominent character from a group to be the representative, use that actor's accent as the index for the group, and have every other actor in the group train with dialect coaches to match it.

 

The problem is that this process wasn't particularly successful in season 1.  Two Rivers folk don't all sound like each other.  Nor do Shienarans.  And the differences are large enough to be distracting.

 

2 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

Was there all this fuss when the Stark sibs and parents came from all over the UK/Ireland - a Scot, a posh English guy,a guy from Kent, an Irish kid, a girl from Northants ,one from Bristol ,Mama was Irish and her brother was English ,her sister was a Scot as was her Uncle and Daddy was a guy from Sheffield?

And yet their differences weren't large enough on screen to be distracting.

I wonder why?

 

Oh yeah:

Speech and dialect coach discusses the accents of Game of Thrones - Wiki of Thrones

[Humbugged2]

19 minutes ago, Andra said:

I would do it the way Rafe said he was going to do it.

Pick one prominent character from a group to be the representative, use that actor's accent as the index for the group, and have every other actor in the group train with dialect coaches to match it.

 

The problem is that this process wasn't particularly successful in season 1.  Two Rivers folk don't all sound like each other.  Nor do Shienarans.  And the differences are large enough to be distracting.

 

And yet their differences weren't large enough on screen to be distracting.

I wonder why?

 

Oh yeah:

Speech and dialect coach discusses the accents of Game of Thrones - Wiki of Thrones

Most of them based their accent on Sean's

 

And what we need is General American casting to fill every role, fake accents ,move to whole lot to Hollywood that will secure the bag then so your rando casting choices might get in even though 

 

As for that link a charcter who is in Marvel is going to quit to be in a DC film, Rock hangs out with a wife beater  great content

Edited May 7, 2022 by Humbugged2

[Andra]

2 hours ago, Humbugged2 said:

But it has stopped happening here ,hence Peter Capaldi,Karen Gillan,James McAvoy  etc etc

And yet it still exists.

 

The push to keep people who don't speak with the accent off the air may have changed, but the accent is still there.  And people with other regional accents have always been present in British film, TV and radio.

 

Capaldi's first film was in 1982, and his first role on British TV was in 1984.

Karen Gillan (being much younger) had her first film role in 2010 and her first role on British TV in 2006.

For McAvoy it was 1995 and 1997, respectively.

 

This isn't new.  And has nothing to do with the spread of the generic British accent.

[Andra]

3 minutes ago, Humbugged2 said:

Most of them based their accent on Sean's

Right.

Which is how Rafe said he was going to do it.  Yet somehow failed in season 1.

[Humbugged2]

2 minutes ago, Andra said:

Right.

Which is how Rafe said he was going to do it.  Yet somehow failed in season 1.

No the ones who did not speak local English used RP did you expect them all to cobble together a fake TR accent ?

[Humbugged2]

10 minutes ago, Andra said:

And yet it still exists.

 

The push to keep people who don't speak with the accent off the air may have changed, but the accent is still there.  And people with other regional accents have always been present in British film, TV and radio.

 

Capaldi's first film was in 1982, and his first role on British TV was in 1984.

Karen Gillan (being much younger) had her first film role in 2010 and her first role on British TV in 2006.

For McAvoy it was 1995 and 1997, respectively.

 

This isn't new.  And has nothing to do with the spread of the generic British accent.

And it still really unpopular in Britain .

 

Heh Welsh Guy let this rando dude tell you how to sound like everyone else which they tried to do for 100's of years

[Andra]

28 minutes ago, Humbugged2 said:

No the ones who did not speak local English used RP did you expect them all to cobble together a fake TR accent ?

What I expected them to do is what Rafe said they were going to do.  Which is pretty much the same thing GOT did as detailed in the article I linked.

Pick one actor and use their accent for everyone.  Use dialect coaches to train everyone else that needed the help.

 

It didn't work in the Two Rivers.  Or for Shienar.

[SinisterDeath]

10 hours ago, Andra said:

Right.

Which is how Rafe said he was going to do it.  Yet somehow failed in season 1.

I honestly don't even remember any prominent accent in the show that definitely sounded British or American.
It probably would have been more obvious had Mat & company used terms like "Wanker" and "Bloody Hell" in a stereotypical British way...

As to the topic of accents, location, etc... 

I live in the middle of nowhere Minnesota. I've never heard locals talk with the stereotypical "Fargo" Minnesotan accent. I've heard vacationers from the Cities talking with that accent, but they'll vehemently deny that the "Minnesota Accent" is an accent found in the Cities. It's only found among the "Rural Hicks".

 

One of the definite reasons that accent bled away from this area is the Interstate System that plows through Lakes Country, which create a tourism boom in this area during the 70s thru the 90s. Resorts everywhere, Vacationers from every state... snow birds buying up cabins. That changed the local accent. Only the old timers, and Farmers/homesteaders  that live in the sticks in this area really have that accent.

 

Then those up der north next to the canucks, that's were that accent is thickest, dontcha know you betcha.

 

 

[WhiteVeils]

Exactly whose accent do you think sounds different?   To me they are all close enough to be considered the same, except /possibly/ Mat's who's a hair lower class with a bit of a stuffy nose (which you do see wiping often during the show). It's obvious that Josha trained to the standard accent as the others...there's certainly no Dutch in his accent.  And Maddie doesn't have an Australian/New Zealand accent.

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

It's obvious that Josha trained to the standard accent as the others...there's certainly no Dutch in his accent.

I read several complaints, where people claimed they couldn't understand Josha. At all... I didn't have any issue understanding him.

[Skipp]

2 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

Exactly whose accent do you think sounds different?   To me they are all close enough to be considered the same, except /possibly/ Mat's who's a hair lower class with a bit of a stuffy nose (which you do see wiping often during the show). It's obvious that Josha trained to the standard accent as the others...there's certainly no Dutch in his accent.  And Maddie doesn't have an Australian/New Zealand accent.

 Agreed although I remember thinking that Maddie's accent slipped a few times.   Guess that means I need to do another rewatch.

 

As for Shienar I felt most of the accents matched, Agelmar and Lan's friends/family sounded similar.  The only one who sounded different was Uno but it was a bloddy perfect Uno and I can't wait to see more of him in season 2. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Skipp