Moiraine, Siuan, and the Oath

[Mailman]

3 hours ago, ForsakenPotato said:

@DigificWriter that's an interesting perspective! How do you see that impacting things like the potential passing of her warder bond to Nyneave? I think the show is still setting up for that to happen based on season 1.

 

Unpopular opinion on this forum, but I think Moiraine is the most improved character from book to show, so I have no complaints about getting more scenes with her. I am less optimistic that means she'll stick around as a main character though...I think she's being portrayed as more likeable so that we can have our hearts ripped out when she dies.

Moiraine IMO is the most damaged character compared to the books. Gone is her overwhelming drive, gone is her intelligence and sadly book 1 was when she shined brightest.

 

I'm not sure about her being the main character going forward but i also can't see her being out of the series for the same portion of time as in the books or at all.

[DigificWriter]

1 hour ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Could be! I think part of what is confusing is that if the bond is severed already, Lan's "hey can you unmask the bond plz" at the end of season 1 seems to indicate that either the bond being severed wasn't noticeable to him or wasn't any worse than it being masked. But we know from the sequence with the other warder earlier in the season that it should be absolutely devastating.

 

I interpreted Stepin's suicidal reaction to the loss of his Bond with Karene as being a product of the fact that her death was violent.

 

Lan not realizing that Moiraine had been Stilled (if you believe Rafe and Rosamund) could possibly be explained by the physical distance between them/the fact that she'd Masked tge Bond and/or him being preoccupied by his and Nynaeve's one night stand.

[DojoToad]

12 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Well the book has a lot of stuff that is mentioned but not spelled out.  But it's still happening.  

Yes, I said exactly that.

Edited December 21, 2022 by DojoToad

[Dagon Thyne]

On 12/21/2022 at 6:47 AM, DojoToad said:

Yes, I said exactly that.

But since it's still happening it has to be shown in order to be true to the story.  

You can't Leave stuff like that out And still have the same scenes being played out.  You can do that in a book but on screen it's much harder..  

[Scarloc99]

On 12/21/2022 at 2:53 AM, Mailman said:

Moiraine IMO is the most damaged character compared to the books. Gone is her overwhelming drive, gone is her intelligence and sadly book 1 was when she shined brightest.

 

I'm not sure about her being the main character going forward but i also can't see her being out of the series for the same portion of time as in the books or at all.

Rereading the books and people really seem to be forgetting books 3 onwards lol. She loses control of Rand, loses control of the situation and you watch her become more and more desperate to do anything just to get Rand to listen to her advice. She realises very quickly that she has no idea what is going on. Her bravest moment before Lanfer is in book 3 where she goes off and faces down one of the forsaken but from

there until Thom saves her she loses power and control and understands she actually knows nothing. 
 

I think That is the journey they are trying to show in the TV show and the lack of time they have they had to condense it all to make sure the confident know it all Morraine is what we see at the start and then by the end of season 1 the audience is clear she didn’t know it all. Not knowing who the dragon is becomes part of this narrative. When she then makes the sacrifice for Lanfer then she gains back her agency as she does in the book. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Sir_Charrid

[Mailman]

5 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Rereading the books and people really seem to be forgetting books 3 onwards lol. She loses control of Rand, loses control of the situation and you watch her become more and more desperate to do anything just to get Rand to listen to her advice. She realises very quickly that she has no idea what is going on. Her bravest moment before Lanfer is in book 3 where she goes off and faces down one of the forsaken but from

there until Thom saves her she loses power and control and understands she actually knows nothing. 
 

I think That is the journey they are trying to show in the TV show and the lack of time they have they had to condense it all to make sure the confident know it all Morraine is what we see at the start and then by the end of season 1 the audience is clear she didn’t know it all. Not knowing who the dragon is becomes part of this narrative. When she then makes the sacrifice for Lanfer then she gains back her agency as she does in the book. 

But thats what i'm saying book 1 she is the brains and the drive behind the journey she is relentless and driven in achieving her goals of finding and protecting the Dragon. 

 

Show Moiraine spends almost no time with anyone except Nynaeve. Spends more time with Logain and the Tower than any of the Emonds fielders. 

 

Moiraines journey after book 1 till just before she exits fighting Lanfear is one of frustration as she tries to control Rand but he pushes back constantly against her control. That is why i said she shines brightest in book 1 she is the driving force through the entire book. The things that made her great in the first book are massively lacking in the show.

[VooDooNut]

1 minute ago, Mailman said:

But thats what i'm saying book 1 she is the brains and the drive behind the journey she is relentless and driven in achieving her goals of finding and protecting the Dragon. 

 

Show Moiraine spends almost no time with anyone except Nynaeve. Spends more time with Logain and the Tower than any of the Emonds fielders. 

 

Moiraines journey after book 1 till just before she exits fighting Lanfear is one of frustration as she tries to control Rand but he pushes back constantly against her control. That is why i said she shines brightest in book 1 she is the driving force through the entire book. The things that made her great in the first book are massively lacking in the show.

Yeah, I see what you mean, but that's assuming the show is finished with "wise Moiraine" after season 1. I would bet that's not the case. In the book her arc, as described in above comments, is more like a V. Starts out driven and central to the plot, gets reduced to a side-character, and is redeemed many books later. But maybe, since the show is definitely trying to put more of Moiraine into the story than was in the books, her arc is more like a W. Season 1 we see central Moiraine who then tumbles into confusion with the season finale. Perhaps season 2 (maybe into 3?) we see Moiraine regain some of her control, only to see in (season 4+++?) her confrontations with Rand (and others) leads to another loss of control. Eventually she is taken out of the picture when she confronts Lanfear. Then, by the end of the series, we have her redemption arc that matches closer to the end of her arc in the books.

 

Dunno, but it makes more sense just thinking about how Rafe et. al. want more Moiraine in the show than the books allowed for.

[Mailman]

3 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

Yeah, I see what you mean, but that's assuming the show is finished with "wise Moiraine" after season 1. I would bet that's not the case. In the book her arc, as described in above comments, is more like a V. Starts out driven and central to the plot, gets reduced to a side-character, and is redeemed many books later. But maybe, since the show is definitely trying to put more of Moiraine into the story than was in the books, her arc is more like a W. Season 1 we see central Moiraine who then tumbles into confusion with the season finale. Perhaps season 2 (maybe into 3?) we see Moiraine regain some of her control, only to see in (season 4+++?) her confrontations with Rand (and others) leads to another loss of control. Eventually she is taken out of the picture when she confronts Lanfear. Then, by the end of the series, we have her redemption arc that matches closer to the end of her arc in the books.

 

Dunno, but it makes more sense just thinking about how Rafe et. al. want more Moiraine in the show than the books allowed for.

Its possible as I dont see anyway the show is going to remove Rosamund Pike for more than half the runtime as the leading name attached to the show. But the characters are basically complete strangers at this point she has only spent maybe what 3 or 4 days with them at this point and some of that she was unconscious.

[VooDooNut]

14 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Its possible as I dont see anyway the show is going to remove Rosamund Pike for more than half the runtime as the leading name attached to the show. But the characters are basically complete strangers at this point she has only spent maybe what 3 or 4 days with them at this point and some of that she was unconscious.

I imagine Moiraine will have more relationship-building moments with the main characters in time, but it will take a much more twisted path than in the books, if only to justify her continued presence in the series.

[Scarloc99]

5 hours ago, Mailman said:

But thats what i'm saying book 1 she is the brains and the drive behind the journey she is relentless and driven in achieving her goals of finding and protecting the Dragon. 

 

Show Moiraine spends almost no time with anyone except Nynaeve. Spends more time with Logain and the Tower than any of the Emonds fielders. 

 

Moiraines journey after book 1 till just before she exits fighting Lanfear is one of frustration as she tries to control Rand but he pushes back constantly against her control. That is why i said she shines brightest in book 1 she is the driving force through the entire book. The things that made her great in the first book are massively lacking in the show.

Book 1 and the show match up, there is more time devoted to the journey before Shadar Logath, when Morraine is with the boys, this is not in the show because of pacing and all the other reasons given. Then the party get split up in exactly the same way as the books and for about the same amount of time. 

She then meets back up with mat and Rand in an inn and saves Mat, as per the show, then they travel via the waygates. Her time with the boys matches the books, yes while hunting the boys she focuses on Perrin first, and then stumbles into mat and rand, that whole section has been changed but, in terms of the time away from Morraine it pretty, much matches they just all meet in Tar Valon. 

In many ways we get to see more of Morraine being controlled then the books, where she basically spends a large part traipsing through the countryside following the coins. 

Morraine is pretty close to the books as a whole, in book 1 she was the Gandalf character and Robert Jordan then made her more and more fallible as he realised he didn't want her being all powerful and all knowing. She is not so much that all knowing Gandalf at the start of season 1 but again that lines up with how RJ wrote her for the whole of the series. Book 1 has always been the outlyer that thematically and stylistically is different to what the series becomes and this includes how characters are written. I maintain had RJ written book 1 after he had written book 4 or 5 we would have a very different style book. In fact I think if he had gone back and re written the series then books 1-3 would have panned out differently with a lot less repetition of story idea (people travelling across the land hunting for item, person or escaping people) and certain characters would be written differently in book 1 (Lan and Morraine for one). It really feels like book 4 is where RJ finds his stride telling stories in his world and not just relying on mcguffin A being the driving force for the story. I think this is why for so many people the Shadow Rising is the best book. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Sir_Charrid

[Scarloc99]

5 hours ago, Mailman said:

Its possible as I dont see anyway the show is going to remove Rosamund Pike for more than half the runtime as the leading name attached to the show. But the characters are basically complete strangers at this point she has only spent maybe what 3 or 4 days with them at this point and some of that she was unconscious.

in reality the way the show will need to condense the books and the fat in the middle after Morraine vanishes I think you are looking at probably 1 1/2 - 2 seasons she will be "written out" and they can still have flashback scenes to bring her back for. 

That might have been a selling point for her, the chance to duck out and do something different for a year or so and then return. 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

4 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Then the party get split up in exactly the same way as the books and for about the same amount of time.

Same amount of calendar time - but only about 1 episode with most of that time being waved over with the "one month later" caption at the start of an episode - the books had a lot of content for that time which was omitted / condensed / replaced with new stuff.

[DigificWriter]

It's hard for me to truly speculate because I don't know/remember what's to come, but another one of the reasons that I think the TV series will in some fashion change whatever Moiraine's fate ends up being is the fact that Rafe has already said that the decision to Still Moiraine at the Eye of the World was made specifically in order to pump up her storyline involvement for the second season,  and since the show has already made one significantly different narrative decision purely in service of increasing the character's centrality to the story, I see no reason, as a creative individual myself, why the pattern of changing things to increase Moiraine's importance would stop after the first deviation.

[Scarloc99]

5 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Same amount of calendar time - but only about 1 episode with most of that time being waved over with the "one month later" caption at the start of an episode - the books had a lot of content for that time which was omitted / condensed / replaced with new stuff.

Yes because there was only so much time and really, rereading the series now they act largely as world building scenes in a TV show you can show all that stuff (and the show does that well). With only 8 episodes and the amount of “world” Rafe had to show in season 1 to help the audience understand the rules of this show I am fairly happy with this being condensed. We get a feel for it, Mat slipping to darkness and he and Rand being chased. Perrin and Egwene meeting tinkers and Perrin starting to connect with wolves and then coming face to face and killing white cloaks. 
 

Given that across the entire show that period of them all being split doesn’t really feed into the last battle in any meaningful way I don’t mind us losing some of that so that we can get on with introducing Tar Valon, meeting Logan, seeing the male half being used etc and get those out of season 2. There is plenty of walking from place to Place to come, at least until they level up and get first horses, then carriages and then traveling :). 

[Scarloc99]

5 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

It's hard for me to truly speculate because I don't know/remember what's to come, but another one of the reasons that I think the TV series will in some fashion change whatever Moiraine's fate ends up being is the fact that Rafe has already said that the decision to Still Moiraine at the Eye of the World was made specifically in order to pump up her storyline involvement for the second season,  and since the show has already made one significantly different narrative decision purely in service of increasing the character's centrality to the story, I see no reason, as a creative individual myself, why the pattern of changing things to increase Moiraine's importance would stop after the first deviation.

He hasn’t used the word still yet has he? Pretty sure she has been blocked in some way but not stilled. 

[Mailman]

11 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Book 1 and the show match up, there is more time devoted to the journey before Shadar Logath, when Morraine is with the boys, this is not in the show because of pacing and all the other reasons given. Then the party get split up in exactly the same way as the books and for about the same amount of time. 

She then meets back up with mat and Rand in an inn and saves Mat, as per the show, then they travel via the waygates. Her time with the boys matches the books, yes while hunting the boys she focuses on Perrin first, and then stumbles into mat and rand, that whole section has been changed but, in terms of the time away from Morraine it pretty, much matches they just all meet in Tar Valon. 

In many ways we get to see more of Morraine being controlled then the books, where she basically spends a large part traipsing through the countryside following the coins. 

Morraine is pretty close to the books as a whole, in book 1 she was the Gandalf character and Robert Jordan then made her more and more fallible as he realised he didn't want her being all powerful and all knowing. She is not so much that all knowing Gandalf at the start of season 1 but again that lines up with how RJ wrote her for the whole of the series. Book 1 has always been the outlyer that thematically and stylistically is different to what the series becomes and this includes how characters are written. I maintain had RJ written book 1 after he had written book 4 or 5 we would have a very different style book. In fact I think if he had gone back and re written the series then books 1-3 would have panned out differently with a lot less repetition of story idea (people travelling across the land hunting for item, person or escaping people) and certain characters would be written differently in book 1 (Lan and Morraine for one). It really feels like book 4 is where RJ finds his stride telling stories in his world and not just relying on mcguffin A being the driving force for the story. I think this is why for so many people the Shadow Rising is the best book. 

Rubbish.

 

I'm sorry but that is just nonsense. In the book she is calculated, driven and plans how to relocate the lost Emond's Fielder's. In the show she goes for a leisurely ride for a month with her Aes Sedai mates. If you think book Moiraine would have done that then I almost feel like we were reading different books. 

 

You say she is traipsing through the countryside following the coins. What she is in fact doing is engaging in a fraught chase to recover her lost charges before the forces of the dark can find them. Traipsing really!! The show she just lets them make there own way there while she really just traipses along with her Aes Sedai friends.

 

Whatever you say about pacing and timing being the same, from the shows perspective Moiraine is basically a complete stranger to the EF5 apart from Nynaeve. The show made no effort to fix this, hell you seem OK with the 1 month later (which i hated) you could have had another one of those before they split up even a 2 weeks later that would have increased the time the group was actually together making them not strangers to each other.

 

Show Moiraine is a shadow of the character we get in the book.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Mailman

[Mailman]

47 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Yes because there was only so much time and really, rereading the series now they act largely as world building scenes in a TV show you can show all that stuff (and the show does that well). With only 8 episodes and the amount of “world” Rafe had to show in season 1 to help the audience understand the rules of this show I am fairly happy with this being condensed. We get a feel for it, Mat slipping to darkness and he and Rand being chased. Perrin and Egwene meeting tinkers and Perrin starting to connect with wolves and then coming face to face and killing white cloaks. 
 

Given that across the entire show that period of them all being split doesn’t really feed into the last battle in any meaningful way I don’t mind us losing some of that so that we can get on with introducing Tar Valon, meeting Logan, seeing the male half being used etc and get those out of season 2. There is plenty of walking from place to Place to come, at least until they level up and get first horses, then carriages and then traveling :). 

Except we dont know the main characters that well, there relationships with each other are paper thin especially with the characters who are new to each other. The magic system is only lightly addressed.

 

I'm not saying that the timing is not tight, i dont really believe it can be done in an 8 episode run at all. But i can only judge on the content delivered and what was delivered was poor.

 

[Scarloc99]

8 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Rubbish.

 

I'm sorry but that is just nonsense. In the book she is calculated, driven and plans how to relocate the lost Emond's Fielder's. In the show she goes for a leisurely ride for a month with her Aes Sedai mates. If you think book Moiraine would have done that then I almost feel like we were reading different books. 

 

You say she is traipsing through the countryside following the coins. What she is in fact doing is engaging in a fraught chase to recover her lost charges before the forces of the dark can find them. Traipsing really!! The show she just lets them make there own way there while she really just traipses along with her Aes Sedai friends.

 

Whatever you say about pacing and timing being the same, from the shows perspective Moiraine is basically a complete stranger to the EF5 apart from Nynaeve. The show made no effort to fix this, hell you seem OK with the 1 month later (which i hated) you could have had another one of those before they split up even a 2 weeks later that would have increased the time the group was actually together making them not strangers to each other.

 

Show Moiraine is a shadow of the character we get in the book.

Actually no in the book she is able to track Perrin with the coin, she hopes Mat and Rand are heading a particular way but is often shown as being unsure, although all those scenes are from Nyns perspective and so what we see is her in quiet conversation with Lan. Nyn certainly doubts at various times that Morraine knows what she is doing, and in some ways she is right to because in many ways it is luck that lands Morraine and Mat and Rand together. 
 

The show isn’t perfect but I am perfectly willing to see past that because with only 8 episodes I don’t see what you get in terms of stuff happening, an episode of the party just travelling and talking, that instantly breaks up the drive of the show and more importantly probably turns off far far more viewers. In the modern day in a TV show every episode has to have something happen.  You extend out the time before shadar logarth you don’t really gain much, you extend the time after you have more scenes of Mat and Rand sleeping under hedges. Maybe a scene or 2 more of them making coin in a tavern but nothing that drives the show forward and makes the show bingeable. 
 

Now you do what you suggest then you lose the scenes with Logain, which most readers accept were a brilliant thing to add (even if we maybe disagree on the quality of those scenes). We lose the politics in Tar Valon, which are really important for an audience to understand, you maybe gain 14 minutes from Steppins story but there are those of us who feel the Bond is so key to the last battle and so many events leading to it that it has to be shown to the audience somehow. Maybe the stepin piece needed to be re worked but a story of a warden losing his aes sedai showing the audience the impact that has and given just how key it is needs to be included in season 1, you can’t get away with simply explaining it, especially when I imagine episode 1 or 2 of season 2, when Lan berates  Morraine for going off and risking his safety as well as her own she turns round and tells him not to worry his bond will switch to another “I won’t have what happened to Steppin be your fate”. 
 

So it isn’t as simple as just “adding in an episode”. 

[Scarloc99]

14 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Except we dont know the main characters that well, there relationships with each other are paper thin especially with the characters who are new to each other. The magic system is only lightly addressed.

 

I'm not saying that the timing is not tight, i dont really believe it can be done in an 8 episode run at all. But i can only judge on the content delivered and what was delivered was poor.

 

To be honest, end of book 1 having just read it for the maybe 15th time, what do you know about the characters really. The way the story is told from first person view the very first time you read the books each major character is a bit of a broad stroke. Everything we attribute to them comes from having read all the other books. You seem to be arguing there is some deep understanding, but really there isn’t. Book 2 and 3 are where characterization is really developed, but even then Rand is basically just refusing to accept his destiny, Mat is worried Rand is going to go crazy and wants to just get away and see the world, Perrin is worried about his friend but also running away from his own gift. Book 3 and really book 4 is when the characters you describe happen. 
 

Now I will say again, content wise at the end of season 1 all the main characters, with the exception of mat, are where they need to be with the same motivations they had in the book. The horn and knife have been taken, Rand knows he can channel and knows he needs to get away from everyone to keep them safe from his madness. Nyn and Lan have a relationship forming. Perrin knows he can talk to wolves and has killed white cloaks, and is known to them. And the audience knows and understands the world.  You dislike the execution, that’s fine everyone is entitled to an opinion, but to

get the same end result (everyone where they need to be) in the same amount of time I can guarantee whatever one person changes many others will dislike. 
 

My hope is that season 2 onwards Rafe and more important Amazon learn and give that time to let things breathe a little bit more. But looked at as a whole season 1 was not the atrocious peice of creative content some try to claim. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Sir_Charrid

[Scarloc99]

On 1/15/2022 at 11:53 PM, DorrinVerrakai1 said:

Is anyone else interested in how the oath that Moiraine swore directly to Siuan is going to effect things down the line? I can't shake the feeling that this is going to be significant for the Tower of Ghenjei storyline and that Siuan will be joining the rescue.

 

They did say they're adapting the full series not book to book so it's possible this little seedling is as important as I think it is for Moiraine's internment in another dimension and eventual rescue....

Now as for the main question, I don’t think Siuan will be travelling to save Morraine, I can’t shake the feeling it is in there because Rafe wanted viewers to see the Oath Rod in action in season 1, if that is the case I think it is a mistake. But I will hold judgement until we see the outcome play out (if it does). I fear however it may never play though, years of watching script writers and show runners place seeds that never get brought to fruition in various TV shows means I stop trying to read too much into little things like this. 

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Actually no in the book she is able to track Perrin with the coin, she hopes Mat and Rand are heading a particular way but is often shown as being unsure, although all those scenes are from Nyns perspective and so what we see is her in quiet conversation with Lan. Nyn certainly doubts at various times that Morraine knows what she is doing, and in some ways she is right to because in many ways it is luck that lands Morraine and Mat and Rand together. 
 

The show isn’t perfect but I am perfectly willing to see past that because with only 8 episodes I don’t see what you get in terms of stuff happening, an episode of the party just travelling and talking, that instantly breaks up the drive of the show and more importantly probably turns off far far more viewers. In the modern day in a TV show every episode has to have something happen.  You extend out the time before shadar logarth you don’t really gain much, you extend the time after you have more scenes of Mat and Rand sleeping under hedges. Maybe a scene or 2 more of them making coin in a tavern but nothing that drives the show forward and makes the show bingeable. 
 

Now you do what you suggest then you lose the scenes with Logain, which most readers accept were a brilliant thing to add (even if we maybe disagree on the quality of those scenes). We lose the politics in Tar Valon, which are really important for an audience to understand, you maybe gain 14 minutes from Steppins story but there are those of us who feel the Bond is so key to the last battle and so many events leading to it that it has to be shown to the audience somehow. Maybe the stepin piece needed to be re worked but a story of a warden losing his aes sedai showing the audience the impact that has and given just how key it is needs to be included in season 1, you can’t get away with simply explaining it, especially when I imagine episode 1 or 2 of season 2, when Lan berates  Morraine for going off and risking his safety as well as her own she turns round and tells him not to worry his bond will switch to another “I won’t have what happened to Steppin be your fate”. 
 

So it isn’t as simple as just “adding in an episode”. 

We are not going to agree you argue Moiraine is the same as in the books despite making no effort to find the EF5 an argument i find simply insane.

 

Probably the simplest way to describe the whole thing is after book 1 of the wheel of time I was excited to find out what happened to the characters next and where the story was going.

 

If I had watched season 1 of the show with no knowledge of the books there is no way I would be watching season 2.

 

 

[Skipp]

35 minutes ago, Mailman said:

We are not going to agree you argue Moiraine is the same as in the books despite making no effort to find the EF5 an argument i find simply insane.

 

 

 

After losing the trace on the coins Book Moiraine has the same plan as Show Moiraine, go to a location she had already told them to go to.  Show Moiraine makes a point of saying, "When we get to Tar'Valon, if they are there, we will find them.  And if they are not there we will find them still".

 

In the books, after Perrin regains his coi,n Moiraine goes and rescues him but once that is done her plan is to hope Mat and Rand make it to Caemlyn. 

 

Aside from not introducing a minor weave that only ever returns an incredibly minor plot point in Elayne's Throne arc I am not sure what you are missing.

[Scarloc99]

8 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 

After losing the trace on the coins Book Moiraine has the same plan as Show Moiraine, go to a location she had already told them to go to.  Show Moiraine makes a point of saying, "When we get to Tar'Valon, if they are there, we will find them.  And if they are not there we will find them still".

 

In the books, after Perrin regains his coi,n Moiraine goes and rescues him but once that is done her plan is to hope Mat and Rand make it to Caemlyn. 

 

Aside from not introducing a minor weave that only ever returns an incredibly minor plot point in Elayne's Throne arc I am not sure what you are missing.

Thanks I made that point as well but it seems to not want to be heard, even hunting down Perrin Morraine doesn’t go in a straight line, she figures out where he is and where he is likely to be heading to and intercepts. It is Nyn who drives constantly trying to find them, she wants to move faster, further, Morraine always felt like she was moving at a more relaxed pace, she certainly wasn’t riding her and Lans horses to death. Or trying to hunt through the day and night for them. Like you say she was confident she would find them and she did. In the books she has the same view and behaves the same. In that moment the real threat is both Logain, but also the red who Morraine knows will switch there attention elsewhere as soon as Logain is Gentled. 
 

I also just want to add in the books Egwene is at the bottom of her priority list, Nyn is under no illusions that Morraine will sacrifice all of them for the Dragon Reborn. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Sir_Charrid

[Scarloc99]

51 minutes ago, Mailman said:

We are not going to agree you argue Moiraine is the same as in the books despite making no effort to find the EF5 an argument i find simply insane.

 

Probably the simplest way to describe the whole thing is after book 1 of the wheel of time I was excited to find out what happened to the characters next and where the story was going.

 

If I had watched season 1 of the show with no knowledge of the books there is no way I would be watching season 2.

 

 

I mean at the end of book 1 I remember the very first time having lots of questions, and also hoping they would all grow up a bit. Yes I wanted to continue the story but I will say that very first read through Eye of the world Left me underwhelmed, a pretty generic fantasy story that just had far to many similarities to the generic fantasy tropes of the time (late 90’s). I was intrigued by the world more then the characters at that point in time. 
 

I know many people who have not read the books never will read the books, and loved it, I also know a couple of people who have now read the first 3-4 books and the general consensus is that eye of the world feels like it comes from a totally different series the deeper you get into the series. 

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

 

After losing the trace on the coins Book Moiraine has the same plan as Show Moiraine, go to a location she had already told them to go to.  Show Moiraine makes a point of saying, "When we get to Tar'Valon, if they are there, we will find them.  And if they are not there we will find them still".

 

In the books, after Perrin regains his coi,n Moiraine goes and rescues him but once that is done her plan is to hope Mat and Rand make it to Caemlyn. 

 

Aside from not introducing a minor weave that only ever returns an incredibly minor plot point in Elayne's Throne arc I am not sure what you are missing.

Moiraine makes multiple plans. 

Mat and Rand give up there coins once they are on the river she uses this information to plan to hopefully reconnect with them at Whitebridge. 

Upon reaching Whitebridge she asks questions and believes they have left in the direction of Camelyn after the Fade incident. Reasoning that it will be harder for the dark ones forces to move openly against them mixed amongst the travelers and not being able follow both groups at once she changes her plans to follow Perrin who still has his coin. (Perrin is only without his coin for a couple of hours).

She then rescues Perrin before resuming her search for the others by  moving to a logical location.

 

That is not the same plan as show Moiraine who makes no effort to find them just goes to the end point slowly and waits for them. Book Moiraine is actively searching and tries to find them. Show Moiraine is passive and just hopes they show up.

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Mailman