Sarah Nakamura's Response to Ep 8 Backlash

[king of nowhere]

11 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

I concur except the last paragraph. ( AOC...never returns my calls for some reason)

 

That said I have to wonder at Sarah's naivety. She had to know what she signed up for. She had to know that Rafe wasn't just getting hate mail, but getting dunked in haterade... How could she not know that she too would get her share?

 

would she?

I don't have that much social media experience, but I do hang out on forums, and I am astonished by the level of vitriol that some people are showing.

I can totally understand not liking the show, but the fact that a lot of non-readers liked it means it's a generally good product. Even the most fervent critics, if honest, must admit that there is a lot of stuff that the show got right.

But there are whole threads that are completely overtaken by people claiming the show is the worst kind of crap, like it was something made by asylum. people calling for rafe's head. All this over something that - it must be repeated - is objectively a good, or at least passable, show.

No, I wasn't expecting something of that magnitude, and Sarah probably wasn't either.

 

As for answering actual criticism, unfortunately going on the defensive could be seen an admission of fault. Brandon managed to answer criticism without making it look like he was pleading guilty, but, well, he's brandon.

Though I say, I would love to hear some honest interviews where the producers talk about the stuff that they are not happy about the show. like, the stuff that they wish they could have done better. Again, brandon has managed to do that about his own books without making it look like he was bashing himself, but it's hard.

Maybe when there will be less tension they will do it.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

19 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

That said I have to wonder at Sarah's naivety. She had to know what she signed up for.

Right? Like, she put herself front and center on a show which everyone (including Rafe) knew was going to piss off a large number of a huge fanbase.  

 

And now, the reason that she's being singled out isn't that she singled herself out in an attempt to use her involvement with the show to build her own social profile, it's that she's a woman. 

 

No one else on the show is getting dragged except for those people who PUT THEMSELVES at the masthead: Rafe and Sarah. If Sarah had just kept her mouth shut like the other show consultants she mentions (who are probably male, given her claims), this wouldn't be happening. She'd be just another nobody. 

 

Nobodies don't get harassed, but Sarah didn't want to be a nobody.

 

[ilovezam]

44 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

My problem is more this.

why spend so much time propping someone up as a book expert and be so public about it if you're not going to bloody use the book for anything more then  names, a very general plotline, and that's about it?

 

Because the implication i got during production was they were bringing these people (her, Sanderson, etc) in order to keep it true to the source. 

Agreed. Whether you enjoyed the season or not, there can be little doubt that they're not going to follow the book lore all that much - Rafe himself said they'd lose many book readers because "because the show would be too different from the books". 

 

I think it's pretty clear that Sanderson and Sarah are mostly there are PR pieces. IIRC, Sanderson said in a podcast he was so surprised to see his name fourth in the opening credits as opposed to having a tiny entry in the middle of nowhere because he contributed so little. He said straight up he only received Ep 7 and 8's scripts after they're done filming.

 

If they're not listening to the world-renowned fantasy author, then it stands to reason that the other consultant they hired to take the place of "super-fan" is mostly there to drum up support, so Rafe could say things like: "The shocking thing to me has been how many really really Sarah Nakamura-level hardcore book fans have loved the show despite the departures!" - and just like this, the sweeping changes now bear her stamp of approval.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

9 hours ago, Terry05 said:

I can think of a number of things they are saying to Sarah that they wouldn't say to a man... "they're coming after me like this only because I'm a woman" may be referring to the type of vitriol that is likely in her DMs,

I don't necessarily think that the nature of the DMs matter. Some douche may make a comment which ties back to Sarah being a woman, but that doesn't mean she's being criticized because she's a woman, which is what she's implying. 

 

If Sarah were a dude with glasses, those same people might make different comments. If she were a dude with a disability, the comments would be different. If she were a really short, fat guy, the comments would be different. Bullies will tailor the nature of their attacks to suit the one they are attacking. 

 

This does not mean that Sarah has been targeted because she is a woman. There are way more plausible and likely reasons that she has been singled out (even though she hasn't because Rafe is getting way more backlash). 

 

For example: 

1. Many of the directors are women, yet they get no backlash even though they are more responsible for the show's quality than Sarah

2. Same goes for the female writers who remain relatively unknown even among the fandom. 

3. Unlike those people, Sarah chose to use her involvement with the show as a way to catapult her into the public eye, drawing attention to herself. No one else in the show did this, and would you look at that, they aren't getting online hate. 

4. Sarah's defense of the show has been 100% unqualified. According to her, there is NOTHING subpar about it. Even episode 8 she calls "surgical" after other people involved with the show have come out and made all sorts of excuses for it being a mess. This makes her sound bought and paid for, which makes her more of a target. 

5. Sarah has been openly antagonistic towards anyone who doesn't like the show and has not hesitated to insinuate that these people are racists, sexists, and bigots. This makes her a target. 

 

But Sarah doesn't want to consider any of that. She just whines that it's because she's a lady. 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

1 hour ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Because the implication i got during production was they were bringing these people (her, Sanderson, etc) in order to keep it true to the source. 

Rafe is not capable of touching the True Source. 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

1 hour ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

My problem is more this.

why spend so much time propping someone up as a book expert and be so public about it if you're not going to bloody use the book for anything more then  names, a very general plotline, and that's about it?

In this regard, I have some sympathy for Sarah. From beginning to end, Rafe used her as a marketing tool. He and the other people in charge of the show make such a big deal about her involvement, and all of it was smoke and mirrors. They knew this would happen. They knew they weren't sticking to the books and that Sarah was just a figurehead, and they threw her to the wolves anyway. 

[Ralph]

I can't respond to each individual comment, but why are so many of you saying she said she is criticised because of her sex? 

 

She didn't say that. 

 

She said they are attacking with more energy for that reason. And I assume she knows Rafe is not. 

 

Besides which I don't think Rafe uses social media much. 

 

And to whoever said she didn't mention physical threats, she did say so - death threats - before Ep6 and that was part of why she took a break from social media.

 

She did not use it to raise her profile, as far as I or anyone knows. She got a job she wanted her whole life, and said so on social media. That is all

 

Sorry, I despair of internet fora sometimes ☹️

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

5 minutes ago, Ralph said:

She said they are attacking with more energy for that reason.

This is a 100% unproveable claim which does nothing but stoke the very same internet outrage that Sarah is criticizing. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

 

Step 1: Get criticized 

Step 2: Make unfounded claim that the criticism is more intense because you are a woman. 

Step 3: Watch criticism intensify 

Step 4: Say, "See, I was right!" 

 

8 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Besides which I don't think Rafe uses social media much. 

This doesn't matter. Rafe is still receiving most of the criticism and it's just as targeted as what Sarah receives. Also, if Rafe isn't checking his DMs and reading his @s and comments, maybe Sarah could learn a thing or two from him. 

[Gothic Flame]

28 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Nobodies don't get harassed, but Sarah didn't want to be a nobody.

Yea...and there are two ways should could have dealt with the criticism;

1.) Ignore it all.

The best and most graceful way of handling it all.

2.) "Come at me bro!"

Not the best way but it does show chutzpah. But a bit unreliable when it comes to garnering the appropriate attention.

 

 

[ilovezam]

17 minutes ago, Ralph said:

And I assume she knows Rafe is not. 

She's talking specifically about men in a similar support role. AKA not Rafe.

 

There's also no one else quite occupying the space of being a lore consultant, so it does come across as rather disingenuous when she insinuates that she's getting extra flak only because she's a woman.

 

Edit: Oh wait, she doesn't insinuate it, she guarantees it.

Edited January 13, 2022 by ilovezam

[ilovezam]

19 minutes ago, Ralph said:

And to whoever said she didn't mention physical threats, she did say so - death threats - before Ep6 and that was part of why she took a break from social media.

Do you have a source on that? Any attempt to Google that just leads back to her response from yesterday, in which she never talks about receiving threats.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

6 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

2.) "Come at me bro!"

Not the best way but it does show chutzpah. But a bit unreliable when it comes to garnering the appropriate attention.

Like, even if she was like Sanderson, that would be something. Sanderson likes the show. He even liked episode 8! But when he talks about it, he brings up and acknowledges the show's flaws but owns that he just enjoys the show anyway. This is a strong position which basically anyone can respect. 

 

Sarah literally thinks the show is perfect.

 

It reminds me of when I was a newbie writer and people would say, "This didn't work for me "or "I don't get what's going on here" and my response was "well you see, I did this for X reason, and here, this is a hint at the MC's inner conflict and yada yada yada" totally missing the point that a creative's reasoning for their decisions doesn't matter a whiff if the audience isn't getting it. 

 

Sarah just blames the audience for not loving the show. Comes off as super immature. 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

30 minutes ago, Ralph said:

And to whoever said she didn't mention physical threats, she did say so - death threats

Whoa! A DM death threat! I think my bunny slippers just ran for cover.  

[ilovezam]

6 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Like, even if she was like Sanderson, that would be something. Sanderson likes the show. He even liked episode 8! But when he talks about it, he brings up and acknowledges the show's flaws but owns that he just enjoys the show anyway. This is a strong position which basically anyone can respect. 

He also explicitly stated from Day 1 that he was only able to enjoy it by regarding it as a different timeline, which is a pretty huge qualifier. He knew and warned Rafe what would happen if he made changes to the lore like they did, and he was right.

 

He likes the show, but he's super mindful of what the book-readers would feel and is respectful to all parties. The same cannot be said of Sarah, who in response to criticism cries foul, accuses detractors of sexism (guarantees it without substantiation), and finally, waxes lyrical for even Episode 8's writing (of all episodes), proudly proclaiming how proud she is of all the changes made. 

And she thinks Sanderson gets less hate only because he's male?

Edited January 13, 2022 by ilovezam

[Rogue One]

I don’t think it is right to say that is should be expected that Rafe and Sarah would get abuse, or that they just need to put up with it. 
 

Even if you think the show is horrible, that doesn’t give you a right to abuse people, let alone send death threats etc. You can criticise the product (and even the people behind it themselves) very strongly without being abusive.

 

Being a passionate book fan is no excuse for abusive behaviour - it is ridiculous to justify sending someone death threats because they got a favourite character of yours wrong. (Not saying anyone here has justified that)  

 

Ah also just to add - even if you think their views / opinions are biased because they worked on it - of course they are, but defending your work / employer still no reason to wish them dead! 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Rogue One

[Truthteller]

30 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

In this regard, I have some sympathy for Sarah. From beginning to end, Rafe used her as a marketing tool. He and the other people in charge of the show make such a big deal about her involvement, and all of it was smoke and mirrors. They knew this would happen. They knew they weren't sticking to the books and that Sarah was just a figurehead, and they threw her to the wolves anyway. 

Obviously I don’t know these people at all, but this fits for me.

 

I have a lot is sympathy for her, and think she is in an impossible position.  
 

I might even have some sympathy with Rafe, except in his public comments he comes across as . . . uncharitable at best.  

[Weird_Old_Lady]

7 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

I suspect that people have been making excuses for their behaviour for as long as the human race has had the wits to do so.  I certainly can't remember the legendary time you mention.  Have you recently accessed memories of prior lives?

I am just a weird old lady,  but this is true in my experience.  I've been paying attention for a long time 

[notpropaganda73]

3 hours ago, ilovezam said:

What's worse, negative labels have a proven negative consequence of further entrenching an individual within that label. Meaning calling someone a misogynist (accurately or not) makes them more likely to develop actual/further misogynistic attitudes. I don't think this is right at all, and I hate that modern day discourse have been degraded to a point where we simply label everyone who opposes us as something unsavory without much thought or justification, just so that we could proceed to give that someone zero further regard.

 

Just as a follow up to this - if a man gets labelled a misogynist and becomes a full-on woman hater later on, I'm not blaming the first person to call him a misogynist. Negative labelling can further entrench, for sure, but I think it's unlikely that you will become a misogynist unless you already have those tendencies or somewhat agree with the idea. 

 

I'm sort of dancing around it but as an example: calling someone a racist doesn't make them racist. Being racist makes them racist. 

 

But I do agree with the bolded part. But I think it's unfortunately a consequence of an internet where people say things they would never say in person, at least initially, and now it's spilled into every part of our lives. Nuance gets you nowhere. 

[ilovezam]

7 minutes ago, Rogue One said:

I don’t think it is right to say that is should be expected that Rafe and Sarah would get abuse, or that they just need to put up with it. 

What I'm seeing here is that nobody here thinks that it's right or good that they should get abuse - in an ideal world, nobody would abuse anybody over a butchered TV adaptation. But we're not in an ideal world, and "expected" in this case simply means it's easy to predict what was going to happen.

 

It was to be expected that a lot of book fans were going to be really upset when you make large sweeping changes to the lore of a beloved book series. Rafe said himself he expects to upset the "hardcore" book fans, Sanderson warned Rafe and publicly stated that the changes were probably going to make for angry book fans, and Sarah went completely offline over the period featuring the last couple of episodes which she's supposedly incredibly proud of. I think it's fair to say all of them "expected" the outcome, but the decision-makers made these changes, hoping that they would make the show more appealing to non-reader audiences (somehow).

[Gothic Flame]

Quote

Some people are so pressed about Episode 8 that they're coming for my throat - and I find it absolutely hysterical, to be perfectly honest, because it's all men, and I guarantee you that if I were a man they would not be coming at me with that same energy because, guaranteed, they are not going after any of the other people that may have helped to provide support for this show, with that same energy.

Hmm...

[ilovezam]

1 minute ago, notpropaganda73 said:

Just as a follow up to this - if a man gets labelled a misogynist and becomes a full-on woman hater later on, I'm not blaming the first person to call him a misogynist. Negative labelling can further entrench, for sure, but I think it's unlikely that you will become a misogynist unless you already have those tendencies or somewhat agree with the idea. 

I guess it's not about assigning blame. It's an all-around unfortunate state of affairs. I do think though we all have seeds within us that could sprout in whatever which way, and I would hate to be the first to water the bad seeds because I decided to randomly mislabel them in a bid to defend my own ego.

 

2 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I'm sort of dancing around it but as an example: calling someone a racist doesn't make them racist. Being racist makes them racist. 

And calling someone who's not quite demonstrated racism a racist makes the labeler a major twat!

[notpropaganda73]

1 minute ago, ilovezam said:

I guess it's not about assigning blame. It's an all-around unfortunate state of affairs. I do think though we all have seeds within us that could sprout in whatever which way, and I would hate to be the first to water the bad seeds because I decided to randomly mislabel them in a bid to defend my own ego.

 

And calling someone who's not quite demonstrated racism a racist makes the labeler a major twat!

 

Oh for sure, but I guess what I was trying to say was that if that person goes on to join the KKK in future, I would suggest that they were pretty racist before being mislabelled. If that makes sense!

[DaddyFinn]

I bet you that the people who send those nasty messages think of themselves as true fans of the book series.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

13 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

"Some people are so pressed about Episode 8 that they're coming for my throat - and I find it absolutely hysterical"

Whoa! Did Sarah Nakamura really just say the word "hysterical"??? 

 

Doesn't she KNOW that word has misogynist roots? Hysteria was a pejorative term used colloquially to mean ungovernable emotional excess which was long considered a diagnosable physical illness in women.

 

And yet here she uses the word "hysterical" to refer to something which she finds funny. Does Sarah Nakamura think the suffering of countless women who were misdiagnosed with hysteria is a joke? 

 

Honestly can't even rn. So problematic... So triggered rn

[Aimless]

10 hours ago, Terry05 said:

But if the exact same people who say "how do you sleep at night" say it to Sarah as well as Rafe then yeah not sexually motivated.

 

I'm not sure if even that is a safe assumption. Rafe is the showrunner—he's a natural target for vitriol. Sarah is just a consultant with no executive authority whatsoever—for her to be targeted like this is just absurdly disproportional, given her role. Irrespective of the specific content of harrassing communications, the targeting itself may be driven by underlying weird attitudes towards women.