Sarah Nakamura's Response to Ep 8 Backlash

[EmreY]

32 minutes ago, Strahor said:

So, can we tell that episode 8 was the worst, without being label as...pick your fighter? Can we say that there was no point in splitting the story around Rand, if you had no idea how to write it? Can we just say that even at this moment, no one real knows how or is Dragon Reborn even a strong character?

 

If you're willing to make a connection between "raging sun" and "it's me" you can't.  Though they did drag out the "suspense" by one half of one episode more than optimal, methinks.

 

But, if you like, you can certainly say all of those things.  It's just the "die, you evil scum" part that is considered unacceptable.  

 

34 minutes ago, Strahor said:

So, not long ago, personal responsibility was a thing. You couldn't go around and hide behind [XYZ]

 

I suspect that people have been making excuses for their behaviour for as long as the human race has had the wits to do so.  I certainly can't remember the legendary time you mention.  Have you recently accessed memories of prior lives?

[Strahor]

4 minutes ago, EmreY said:

 

 

 

I suspect that people have been making excuses for their behaviour for as long as the human race has had the wits to do so.  I certainly can't remember the legendary time you mention.  Have you recently accessed memories of prior lives?

Well, this here, this is new. From a business side, it's all about the costs. From a professional one? It's all about the quality of the product. Not long ago, when someone writes a bad review, you address it, you don't hid behind your ideological construct. 

[Ralph]

27 minutes ago, Strahor said:

Well, this here, this is new. From a business side, it's all about the costs. From a professional one? It's all about the quality of the product. Not long ago, when someone writes a bad review, you address it, you don't hid behind your ideological construct. 

Or you ignored it. As she has. She only spoke about the personal attacks, which are unacceptable

[EmreY]

29 minutes ago, Strahor said:

Well, this here, this is new. From a business side, it's all about the costs. From a professional one? It's all about the quality of the product. Not long ago, when someone writes a bad review, you address it, you don't hid behind your ideological construct. 

 

Pretty much everything's an ideological construct.  It's just that most people are only now beginning to realise this, and it's a painful process.

 

Edit: Plus the point from @Ralph above.

Edited January 13, 2022 by EmreY

[ilovezam]

Just some further, rambly thoughts:

 

I think there are no shortage of people in this world who are hateful towards everybody else. When they step out of line and spew hate at an individual, instead of getting the more relevant and poignant message that they need to learn to be more compassionate and kinder to everyone else, themselves included, a man is labeled as misogynist because he is male and that individual he's hating on is female, despite there being no means of knowing what his broader attitudes are towards the two sexes at large. He is told that his negative feelings (which, while conveyed in a totally unacceptable manner, are "valid") towards a woman are invalid unless he is also a woman.

What's worse, negative labels have a proven negative consequence of further entrenching an individual within that label. Meaning calling someone a misogynist (accurately or not) makes them more likely to develop actual/further misogynistic attitudes. I don't think this is right at all, and I hate that modern day discourse have been degraded to a point where we simply label everyone who opposes us as something unsavory without much thought or justification, just so that we could proceed to give that someone zero further regard.

Edited January 13, 2022 by ilovezam

[king of nowhere]

6 hours ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Usually when almost exclusively men do something bad to a woman, sexism is at play.

 

I wouldn't be so certain. There are a lot of other factors in play.

For example, most murdered women are killed by men, so by this metric one may assume sexism is at play.

But then, one can see that most murdered men are also killed by men, so it's got nothing to do with sexism, it's just that most murdered are men.

In general, men are more likely to be nerds, men are more likely to be violent (verbally or otherwise), and so men have a greater likelyhood of being internet trolls.

 

So, I'm not surprised at all that a majority of men are insulting SN. I am not convinced that they would not equally insult a man in her place, though.

 

I do hope that Sarah is receiving a lot more supportive messages than she's receiving hateful ones. There's always going to be a few bad apples, and the internet makes them stand out. but there's also a lot of decent people.

[Jaysen Gore]

21 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I wouldn't be so certain. There are a lot of other factors in play.

For example, most murdered women are killed by men, so by this metric one may assume sexism is at play.

But then, one can see that most murdered men are also killed by men, so it's got nothing to do with sexism, it's just that most murdered are men.

In general, men are more likely to be nerds, men are more likely to be violent (verbally or otherwise), and so men have a greater likelyhood of being internet trolls.

 

So, I'm not surprised at all that a majority of men are insulting SN. I am not convinced that they would not equally insult a man in her place, though.

 

I do hope that Sarah is receiving a lot more supportive messages than she's receiving hateful ones. There's always going to be a few bad apples, and the internet makes them stand out. but there's also a lot of decent people.

Except if she as the token book fan on the series and lowest person on the creative totem pole has confirmed that she is receiving particular kinds of DM's and the male showrunner at the top is not, that's the ball game. That means it's because of all these chickensh*ts hiding behind their keyboards who wouldn't dare say what they're saying in person's to someone's face, or even be willing to sign it, so she could expose them publicly.

[Guest Cranglevoid]

Utterly unacceptable that anyone should receive hateful messages based on something as trivial as a TV series, but it's really disappointing to have her completely disregard any criticism of the show.

 

But I guess she wouldn't want to risk saying anything negative and lose her position.

[Jaysen Gore]

8 minutes ago, Cranglevoid said:

Utterly unacceptable that anyone should receive hateful messages based on something as trivial as a TV series, but it's really disappointing to have her completely disregard any criticism of the show.

 

But I guess she wouldn't want to risk saying anything negative and lose her position.

Tell me then, if she were willing to make the changes to the show you want as a result of the treatment she is receiving, do you then think the treatment would be acceptable?  What makes you think she has any authority on the set whatsoever? Send your complaints to Rafe, if you're trying to effect change.

 

Oh, and 

 

Nothing someone says before the word 'but' really counts" - Ned Stark

[ilovezam]

19 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

and the male showrunner at the top is not,

Wait, in which universe is this the case? The Internet hate that you see for Rafe Judkins is entire orders of magnitude greater than the number of times Sarah is even brought up, there's no way that's true lmao.

 

I think Sarah was comparing herself to Brandon Sanderson, the other consultant (who is male), and complaining about how he seems to be let off much more lightly.

[Jaysen Gore]

Just now, ilovezam said:

Wait, in which universe is this the case? The Internet hate that you see for Rafe Judkins is entire orders of magnitude greater than the number of times Sarah is even brought up, there's no way that's true lmao.

 

I think Sarah was comparing herself to Brandon Sanderson, the other consultant (who is male), and complaining about how he seems to be let off much more lightly.

I'm not talking about public hate - I'm talking about comments in her DM's - we haven't seen them, but I can almost guarantee she is receiving different kinds of hate in that that Rafe is. 

[Ararana24]

It's disappointing as hell that we live in a world where someone can receive physical threats, or threats of any kind really, for work on a fictional show about fictional people set in a fictional place. The internet is simultaneously the best and worst thing to ever happen to the world. 

 

That said, she deserves every ounce of non-threating criticism for her work. I understand she doesn't have final say, but I'd have gotten myself fired after reading the script for ep 8. The show was bad but somewhat redeemable up until ep 8. Ep 8 just threw it off a cliff. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Ararana24

[Jaysen Gore]

2 minutes ago, Ararana24 said:

It's disappointing as hell that we live in a world where someone can receive physical threats, or threats of any kind really, for work on a fictional show about fictional people set in a fictional place. The internet is simultaneously the best and worst thing to ever happen to the world. 

 

That said, she deserves every ounce of non-threating criticism for her work. I understand she doesn't have final say, but I'd have gotten myself fired after reading the script for ep 8. The show was bad but somewhat redeemable up until ep 8. Ep 8 just threw it off a cliff. 

I repeat:

 

if she were willing to make the changes to the show you want as a result of the treatment she is receiving, do you then think the treatment would be acceptable? 

[Guest Cranglevoid]

22 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Tell me then, if she were willing to make the changes to the show you want as a result of the treatment she is receiving, do you then think the treatment would be acceptable?  What makes you think she has any authority on the set whatsoever? Send your complaints to Rafe, if you're trying to effect change.

 

Oh, and 

 

Nothing someone says before the word 'but' really counts" - Ned Stark

Mate, if you've got a message you're itching to post, post it. But don't quote me if what you're posting has nothing to do with what I'm writing. I'm not your prop, and I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth.

[ilovezam]

5 minutes ago, Ararana24 said:

It's disappointing as hell that we live in a world where someone can receive physical threats, or threats of any kind really, for work on a fictional show about fictional people set in a fictional place. The internet is simultaneously the best and worst thing to ever happen to the world. 

FYI, she never mentions being threatened or receiving any threats. Some people asked her to kill herself, which is awful, but really not quite the same thing.

  

2 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I repeat:

 

if she were willing to make the changes to the show you want as a result of the treatment she is receiving, do you then think the treatment would be acceptable? 

Why do you keep pushing this angle? I have not seen anyone make this assertion anywhere on any board.

 

Two things can be true at the same time:

1. Abusing her is not okay.

2. We want the show to improve.

[Vartija]

Honestly, when you work with people making the show and see how much goes into production, the compromises forced on them due to a number of things etc., I think one's perspective on things change a bit. Therefore, even if it's not exactly award winning stuff, I can easily understand being proud of the end result at least on a personal level. People still worked hard to bring it to screen. She's also a credited part of the production so I wouldn't expect her to trash the show even if she were disappointed with it. I don't doubt for a moment that she's fulfilled her role as a book expert just fine. People probably overestimated her influence and thought she had some kind of veto power over changes when she obviously didn't. 

[Deviations]

21 minutes ago, ilovezam said:

I think Sarah was comparing herself to Brandon Sanderson, the other consultant (who is male), and complaining about how he seems to be let off much more lightly.

Brandon has bonifides.  He completed the series as closely as he could to Jordan's style and notes.  I really only had issue with one scene he wrote where I thought he missed represented a character - and truth be told, Jordan's notes could have led him down that path.  The fanbase trusts him.  His interviews make it clear that there are things he disagrees with.

 

Even though her knowledge of the books is unquestioned, I'm not sure she maintained the trust.

 

The attacks are reprehensible.  Her belief that the attacks are due to her sex reminds me of AOC complaining that republican attacks against her are because male republicans are frustrated they can't date her.

[Cauthonfan4]

5 minutes ago, Vartija said:

I don't doubt for a moment that she's fulfilled her role as a book expert just fine. People probably overestimated her influence and thought she had some kind of veto power over changes when she obviously didn't. 

My problem is more this.

why spend so much time propping someone up as a book expert and be so public about it if you're not going to bloody use the book for anything more then  names, a very general plotline, and that's about it?

 

Because the implication i got during production was they were bringing these people (her, Sanderson, etc) in order to keep it true to the source. 

 

the various threats are dumb and need to stop but if i was heralded as the book expert i wouldn't be thrilled at all with what they put on screen.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[Cauthonfan4]

6 minutes ago, Deviations said:

Brandon has bonifides.  He completed the series as closely as he could to Jordan's style and notes.  I really only had issue with one scene he wrote where I thought he missed represented a character - and truth be told, Jordan's notes could have led him down that path.  The fanbase trusts him.  His interviews make it clear that there are things he disagrees with.

 

Even though her knowledge of the books is unquestioned, I'm not sure she maintained the trust.

Could not have said it better myself. BS has come out and said "hey i didn't like this or this and while i don't like this i can see why they did it, etc"

[Lethira the second]

3 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

My problem is more this.

why spend so much time propping someone up as a book expert and be so public about it if you're not going to bloody use the book for anything more then  names, a very general plotline, and that's about it?

 

Because the implication i got during production was they were bringing these people (her, Sanderson, etc) in order to keep it true to the source. 

 

 

Whatever they implied, the answer is simple -Harriet, Brandon, Sarah are involved as consultants only.  I'm sure some of their feedback was taken.  Much as some of us wish they had taken more of Brandon's comments on board, done is done  -sending nasty DMs to anyone won't change it, nor is it likely to foster sympathy for your opinion.

 

Personally, I didn't like the series, I watched it through twice in the hopes that I would find some common ground with it, there were moments, but no, It's not for me.  Some people love it and good for them.  

 

Like it or not, the job of adapting the series went to Rafe, and whether it succeeds or fails rests on his shoulders and the decisions made.  Regardless of where you sit on the spectrum between ultra-fan and out and out hater, no one has the right to threaten or bully anyone responsible for the show.  I'm glad to see other fans come out and say the same.  

 

[Vartija]

2 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

My problem is more this.

why spend so much time propping someone up as a book expert and be so public about it if you're not going to bloody use the book for anything more then  names, a very general plotline, and that's about it?

 

Because the implication i got during production was they were bringing these people (her, Sanderson, etc) in order to keep it true to the source. 

A legit question. Frankly, I thought from the start that it was part of a pr-push from Amazon. It's understandable from a business perspective (promoting the show, creating positive buzz), but obviously it comes with the cost of unfulfilled expectations. It also puts people like Nakamura in a tight spot. 

 

People should generally be wary of production members' lofty promises about the series. There's a lot of spin and hype generation involved.   

[Cauthonfan4]

2 minutes ago, Lethira the second said:

-sending nasty DMs to anyone won't change it, nor is it likely to foster sympathy for your opinion.

not condoning that in the slightest. not even close.

[Gothic Flame]

12 minutes ago, Deviations said:

Brandon has bonifides.  He completed the series as closely as he could to Jordan's style and notes.  I really only had issue with one scene he wrote where I thought he missed represented a character - and truth be told, Jordan's notes could have led him down that path.  The fanbase trusts him.  His interviews make it clear that there are things he disagrees with.

 

Even though her knowledge of the books is unquestioned, I'm not sure she maintained the trust.

 

The attacks are reprehensible.  Her belief that the attacks are due to her sex reminds me of AOC complaining that republican attacks against her are because male republicans are frustrated they can't date her.

I concur except the last paragraph. ( AOC...never returns my calls for some reason)

 

That said I have to wonder at Sarah's naivety. She had to know what she signed up for. She had to know that Rafe wasn't just getting hate mail, but getting dunked in haterade... How could she not know that she too would get her share?

And the Sanderson comparison isn't fair at all unless a person simply wants to play the gender-blame game. 

[Maximillion]

It was pretty silly to make that video and give oxygen to a few stupid idiots that would wish death upon another person over a TV show. 

Some of Sarah's comments were out of order in that 'rebuke', by the way, and it's not a surprise that she thinks it's a gender issue.    

 

 

 

 

[Lethira the second]

24 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

not condoning that in the slightest. not even close.

My apologies, clumsy writing on my behalf, I didn't mean to suggest you were.