Possible Moiraine Storyline Changes?

[Gothic Flame]

31 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

Don't two (well, maybe 1 and 1/2) people die at TEOTW in the book?

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Aginor and Balthamel?

 

Spoiler

Tree brother too.

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Gothic Flame

[RhienneAgain]

2 hours ago, Eelfinn_Ty said:

I've been thinking about this and the more I ponder the more I think they will kill Moiraine at the eye.

 

She has repeatedly said they anyone who goes to the eye with the dragon will die, so she is expecting to die. If she survives there was no reason to shoehorn in the episode about Stepin. It could have been added next season, and that time better used.

 

She has 1 comment about passing the bond and then they spend time at the White Tower where she could set up the passing of the bond. 

 

In Fal Dara Lan finds her reminiscing about their past. She then proceeded to tell him goodbye and give her blessing to his relationship with Nynaeve. She knows he will need that to survive her death.

 

Min says the Amerlyn will be her downfall. The reason they are going to the eye is because of Suan's dreams. That also makes their night together and vows more meaningful. 

 

In the behind the scenes Rafe says that not everyone will survive/comeback from the eye. Rand and Moiraine are the only ones headed that way, and they can't kill off Rand!

 

How do you out "GoT" "GoT" you kill off the person you set up as the main character of the story! I can't think of anything that would ignite more conversations than that! 

 

Now that I've written all this the same could play out if she draws too much power. That possibility was set up with Leandrin in ep4. Lan's bond would be severed. Would she be releaved of her expulsion vow? She could still aid Rand with her knowledge of DDM and of the prophecies, and it wouldn't prevent her from shoving someone through a doorway. 

 

Someone poke holes in this because I want to be wrong but the more I look at it the more it seems to fit. 

This is exactly what I think.  You've picked up on all the same hints and clues my husband and I have!

 

Well, actually, we have a slightly different take on it as we think she won't die at the Eye but her extended absence (whatever the show chooses to use as her time in Finnland) will begin at the Eye (possibly with viewers thinking she's died, possibly with viewers being aware she's gone somewhere else with the possibility of return).  Not sure whether they will have her go to Finnland, or end up trapped in TAR somehow, or something else, but the writers have deviated so much from the original material that I think they could come up with some alternatives if the original Finnland trip doesn't work for plot reasons.

Edited December 19, 2021 by RhienneAgain

[VooDooNut]

23 hours ago, Skipp said:

My personal theory is that Rand will continue to see a manifestation of Moiraine as part of his madness.  Having her berating everything he does would be an interesting thing for Rand to have to deal with.

 

I also think we will be seeing LTT as a physical manifestation rather than just a voice.

I definitely hope to see a physical representation of LTT. That would be so much better than an invisible voice, no matter how good that voice could be.

 

But I don't think, or, rather, I hope Moiraine is not represented as a mental projection going forward. I feel it would diminish the power and presence of her character. For example, she'd probably only ever be able to converse with Rand or LTT in any given scene. Big bummer. But I do think the show is prepared to do some interesting mix ups with Moiraine's arc in some way.

[RhienneAgain]

15 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

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Tree brother too.

 

But 'not make it back from the Eye' doesn't apply to them as they are already there?

[VooDooNut]

Just now, RhienneAgain said:

But 'not make it back from the Eye' doesn't apply to them as they are already there?

Easy. Back to wherever they subjectively came from. It's how the words are interpreted, for me.

[RhienneAgain]

2 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

Easy. Back to wherever they subjectively came from. It's how the words are interpreted, for me.

Mmm, yes.  I suppose Rafe could have been channeling (pardon the pun) his inner Aes Sedai there..!

[VooDooNut]

Just now, RhienneAgain said:

Mmm, yes.  I suppose Rafe could have been channeling (pardon the pun) his inner Aes Sedai there..!

I wouldn't put it past him! ?

[Ralph]

I thought he was just saying what the characters think, not as fact

[EmreY]

2 hours ago, Eelfinn_Ty said:

How do you out "GoT" "GoT" you kill off the person you set up as the main character of the story! I can't think of anything that would ignite more conversations than that! 

 

Well, one way would be to have a decent ending to the series.  Cough.  

 

Anyway, don't worry: Min never misses her mark, including (major spoiler)

 

Spoiler

Rand being something impossible

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by EmreY

[MasterAblar]

Didn't Rafe say that a character death at the end of season 3 would shock non book readers? Moiraine is the only one who fits that description at the point where the tv show would be. I can't think of any deaths or "deaths" that would warrant that comment other than her.

[DorrinVerrakai1]

17 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Didn't Rafe say that a character death at the end of season 3 would shock non book readers? Moiraine is the only one who fits that description at the point where the tv show would be. I can't think of any deaths or "deaths" that would warrant that comment other than her.

 

Awe man I was hoping we'd have her for more than 3 seasons before she disappears....

[Gothic Flame]

24 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Didn't Rafe say that a character death at the end of season 3 would shock non book readers? Moiraine is the only one who fits that description at the point where the tv show would be. I can't think of any deaths or "deaths" that would warrant that comment other than her.

And where would that leave Lan?

[dwn]

Given how ambiguous most of Min's wording is, I wouldn't be surprised to see "your downfall" to be less about Moiraine as an individual, and more about the Blue Ajah or even the Aes Sedai as a whole, both of which would be very true whether "the Amyrlin" is Siuan or Elaida.

[RhienneAgain]

49 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Didn't Rafe say that a character death at the end of season 3 would shock non book readers? Moiraine is the only one who fits that description at the point where the tv show would be. I can't think of any deaths or "deaths" that would warrant that comment other than her.

Where did you come across this? Not doubting you, just curious to read/hear his exact wording.

 

WoT is certainly short on main character deaths...I guess he could be killing off someone who doesn't die in the books and being sneaky with the wording (i.e. book readers would be shocked too, he just omitted to say that). 

 

Or could it be Mat's (and/or Aviendha's) death at the hands of Rahvin? That would have very similar narrative timing to Moiraine going through the doorway so could quite conceivably be the end of season three.

[Hudson]

To me the HEART of the whole series is Rand’s isolation when she dies and then her return in the hour of his most desperate need.  I’m a grown ass man and I cried when she returns at the meeting of all the armies and Rand falls to his knees at her feet.  She and he did nothing but argue but once she was gone he realized what he had lost.  In his darkest hour…she returns.  Rand is the main character but Moiraine is the HEART of the series.  Without her presumed death and resurrection it will be FAR inferior.  I suspect they will stupidly change this like they have changed so much….but I hope….

Edited December 19, 2021 by Hudson

[Ralph]

1 hour ago, MasterAblar said:

Didn't Rafe say that a character death at the end of season 3 would shock non book readers? 

 

I do not recall this. Do you know where /when? 

[Jaysen Gore]

1 hour ago, MasterAblar said:

Didn't Rafe say that a character death at the end of season 3 would shock non book readers? Moiraine is the only one who fits that description at the point where the tv show would be. I can't think of any deaths or "deaths" that would warrant that comment other than her.

Nah, I can think of another shocking death (dirge playing here) , and trying to put Rhuidean, Tear, and this all in 1 season seems like too much. And the girls need time in the tower, so I can't see how they can force Season 2.

[Jaysen Gore]

1 hour ago, Gothic Flame said:

And where would that leave Lan?

The same place he is left after the same event in the books. Riding towards

 

Spoiler

whichever green sister that isn't Nynaeve holding his bond. Alannah probably, maybe Myrelle.

 

[DaddyFinn]

I'm pretty sure Rafe said that in an interview/article. He said something about how shocked random non-book crew members were when he told them who would die at the end(?) of season 3. They screamed at him "NOO why would you say/do that?!". I tried to find it but couldn't. I saw that article all over the place before the show aired.

[Jaysen Gore]

Oh, and there's another major death that happens, and the season 3 cliff hanger seems like a good timing for it to happen, We're in the wrong thread for that, though.

[ForsakenPotato]

It's a stretch but I wondered if Moiraine's little painting is what she will end up trapped behind. I'm not sure how but I don't think they would take the time to set up those gateways if we weren't ever going to see them again. Maybe something like Liandrin finds the paintings, deposes and stills Siuan over blues colluding in secret with the Amyrlin, makes Siuan summon Moiraine back with a note, and then ambushes her?

 

The other part that's interesting about Min's vision is she says "in full regalia" when describing the Amyrlin. I take that to mean either Liandrin/Elaida wearing the regalia, or the scene with the oath rod that we already saw. If Siuan orders her to do anything now or even after she's been deposed (because Moiraine changed the words) she has to -- for example "protect the Dragon Reborn at any cost". That could be seen as the Amyrlin causing her downfall if the cost is her life, although it would be a bit pointless because she's already risking her life for the dragon reborn and Siuan knows it.

 

I do like that in the books Moiraine makes a conscious decision to sacrifice herself to take out Lanfear. Getting locked up against her will or doing it against her will wouldn't really have the same effect, but as long as we get to see Lan and Siuan believing she's dead I'm sure I'll cry enough as it is. If Siuan knows it's her fault somehow I'll cry even more.

[TheTuna450]

While I understand why people think that the show will handle Moiraine's departure in a materially different fashion by keeping her around, I fully expect it to be largely the same trajectory as the books, in that she will 'die' saving Rand in either S3 or S4, then return for the final season, which would very optimistically be S8. While Moiraine is the main character right now, that must necessarily shift to the EF5, as they have far more room for growth and development as characters than Moiraine does, and all the "big picture" narratives revolve around them. What's more, keeping Moiraine around would seriously crimp the character arcs of Rand, Nynaeve, and Lan in particular.

 

With that in mind, I think she makes her dramatic exit and dramatic return in roughly the same fashion as the books. I quite like what they've done to tie Moiraine and Siuan together much more closely, as it will make what happens to Siuan even more upsetting than it is in the books, and will make Moiraine's return that much sweeter as well. Can you imagine Siuan going along with the rescue squad? My goodness, but that would be some must-watch TV.

Edited December 20, 2021 by TheTuna450

[Jaysen Gore]

20 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

Don't two (well, maybe 1 and 1/2) people die at TEOTW in the book?

  Reveal hidden contents

Aginor and Balthamel?

 

Someone else got planted in those scenes...

[VooDooNut]

6 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Someone else got planted in those scenes...

Excellent word play @Jaysen Gore ?

 

Spoiler

RIP Green Man ?

 

[Wassup]

22 hours ago, Eelfinn_Ty said:

In the behind the scenes Rafe says that not everyone will survive/comeback from the eye. Rand and Moiraine are the only ones headed that way, and they can't kill off Rand!

FYI, here is his quote:

"Now we're going into the end game.  The stakes are real here, and not all of our characters are gonna make it."

 

Read into that what you will.

 

I also think it is a little early for any Cadsuane involvement.  She didn't show up until the middle of the series, right?