Let's, Like, Talk to Each Other Good (E1 & All-Book Spoilers)

[ForsakenPotato]

Imho, conversation is also better when people don't state opinions as facts. I feel annoyed reading posts that are like "the show is terrible" because the implication is that anyone who is enjoying any part of it has terrible taste. The same opinions can be stated in a way that doesn't feel like an attack if you start with "Here's the choices on the show that didn't work for me" (or conversely, did work for me). I'm sure I've also gotten frustrated at times and stated things as facts that aren't, and I doubt those post made anyone like having conversations with me. There's nothing wrong with being disappointed in the show, but trying to make people who are enjoying it feel bad isn't cool. Doing it the other way around also isn't cool.

 

Personally I appreciate when there's separate threads for "here's what I liked" and "here's what I didn't like". Then if you're in the mood for critiquing and reading other critiques, there's an obvious place for that. If you're in the mood to hype, there's a place for that too. Most people who are engaged enough to be on a forum like this will have things to say in both, and it's less likely to devolve into "the show is bad" "no you're wrong the show is good" and instead can focus more on what specific things are good or not good for specific people.

[Elgee]

@nicki_minajah Thank you. Hopefully many people read this post of yours, and pause a little bit before they post anything on here.

[AdamA]

Liandrin is clearly meant to be a villain. From Kate Fleetwood just looking evil to her clearly enjoying causing that guy pain to the way she greets Moiraine, she's being set up as an antagonist from the beginning, and it didn't seem to me like we were supposed to take her comments about men causing the taint seriously. That clearly can't be in-universe canon as it would make the ultimate resolution impossible, or any resolution, since they can't prevent more male channelers from being born.

 

As for the additional content, I think it's wrong. I don't know if it's meant to be in-universe canon or just the view of the Aes Sedai with their limited knowledge (saw this a lot with Game of Thrones histories and lore and even the entire Fire and Blood book series being based on what maesters had recorded, which was limited and largely incorrect, but still the only view we get). I was in an actual military. The way real militaries work is you execute the plan of whoever the commander is. That was Lews Therin. The female Aes Sedai should have been there at the sealing, executing the plan of their commander. The fact that the plan failed (partially) isn't due to Lews Therin's hubris. It's due to insubordination on the part of his Army, half of which didn't follow his orders.

 

I don't think it's necessarily "hubris" on the part of the female Aes Sedai, either. I always took the point of that backstory to be that a world without war just wasn't ready. Forming a military on the spot without the history of fighting, losing, and sometimes winning wars in the past, is difficult and unlikely to work. Any society's first crack at a military with no history of violence is going to be worse than a military with an actual history behind it. A people who don't know evil are not equipped to deal with it when it reveals itself. Thus, it was necessary that a real defeat of the Dark One couldn't happen until the third age, because the people of the second age weren't ready yet.

[DaddyFinn]

3 minutes ago, AdamA said:

The female Aes Sedai should have been there at the sealing, executing the plan of their commander.

That could have been bad without the True Power acting as a barrier.

[Elgee]

17 hours ago, AdamA said:

Liandrin is clearly meant to be a villain. From Kate Fleetwood just looking evil to her clearly enjoying causing that guy pain to the way she greets Moiraine, she's being set up as an antagonist from the beginning, and it didn't seem to me like we were supposed to take her comments about men causing the taint seriously.

 

It could be that the producers etc MEAN for that to be the case, but I'm wondering: will non-readers understand that? Or will they couple it with that (insert extreme swearword here) piece of rubbish Nynaeve spouts about her old Wisdom being rejected from the white tower for being common, and just jump to the conclusion that Aes Sedai are all or mostly like this?

 

/end rant.

[DojoToad]

20 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

That could have been bad without the True Power acting as a barrier.

Or it could have worked - just as Nynaeve used saidar as a barrier to remove the taint from saidin.  If saidar had been at LT's attempt to seal the prison we might have avoided the taint and the breaking.  Maybe.

 

Also - who's fault was it that the hole hole was drilled to begin with?  Realize it was Aes Sedai but anyone remember the specific folks responsible?

[Morani]

12 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Or it could have worked - just as Nynaeve used saidar as a barrier to remove the taint from saidin.  If saidar had been at LT's attempt to seal the prison we might have avoided the taint and the breaking.  Maybe.

 

Also - who's fault was it that the hole hole was drilled to begin with?  Realize it was Aes Sedai but anyone remember the specific folks responsible?

Sure thing - it was Lanfear, or Mierin.

 

I do not think that the point they are trying to make is "men bad, women good". I think their point is that women of this age blame men for what went wrong in the previous one, and this has caused an imbalance, much like our own society is imbalanced, but the scale is tipped in the other direction. I think we can see the way that Aes Sedai describe the world as a case of an unreliable narrator. History is written by the victors, and all that. I think they genuinely believe that the breaking was the fault of men, through and through. 

[JenniferL]

It was two Aes Sedai, a man and a woman. The woman was Mierin and the man was Beidomon. 

[Deadsy]

12 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Or it could have worked - just as Nynaeve used saidar as a barrier to remove the taint from saidin.  If saidar had been at LT's attempt to seal the prison we might have avoided the taint and the breaking.  Maybe.

 

 

RJ confirmed both would have been tainted if the women had gone along with LTT's plan.

[Deadsy]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:55 PM, AdamA said:

Liandrin is clearly meant to be a villain. From Kate Fleetwood just looking evil to her clearly enjoying causing that guy pain to the way she greets Moiraine, she's being set up as an antagonist from the beginning, and it didn't seem to me like we were supposed to take her comments about men causing the taint seriously. That clearly can't be in-universe canon as it would make the ultimate resolution impossible, or any resolution, since they can't prevent more male channelers from being born.

 

As for the additional content, I think it's wrong. I don't know if it's meant to be in-universe canon or just the view of the Aes Sedai with their limited knowledge (saw this a lot with Game of Thrones histories and lore and even the entire Fire and Blood book series being based on what maesters had recorded, which was limited and largely incorrect, but still the only view we get). I was in an actual military. The way real militaries work is you execute the plan of whoever the commander is. That was Lews Therin. The female Aes Sedai should have been there at the sealing, executing the plan of their commander. The fact that the plan failed (partially) isn't due to Lews Therin's hubris. It's due to insubordination on the part of his Army, half of which didn't follow his orders.

 

I don't think it's necessarily "hubris" on the part of the female Aes Sedai, either. I always took the point of that backstory to be that a world without war just wasn't ready. Forming a military on the spot without the history of fighting, losing, and sometimes winning wars in the past, is difficult and unlikely to work. Any society's first crack at a military with no history of violence is going to be worse than a military with an actual history behind it. A people who don't know evil are not equipped to deal with it when it reveals itself. Thus, it was necessary that a real defeat of the Dark One couldn't happen until the third age, because the people of the second age weren't ready yet.

 

 

The failure of the plan is not due to the female Aes Sedai not following LTT's orders. That would have doomed saidar as well.

Doing nothing wasn't an option either, though. 

[DojoToad]

7 hours ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

RJ confirmed both would have been tainted if the women had gone along with LTT's plan.

That would have been bad

[DaddyFinn]

40 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

That would have been bad

As I said lol

[Agitel]

23 hours ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

RJ confirmed both would have been tainted if the women had gone along with LTT's plan.

 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.