tv show spoilers S1E8: The Eye of the World

[JaimAybara]

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

Yep, arrogance on both sides, which doesn't negate his.  She's being arrogant in that scene telling him there's no way to succeed and he's already failed.  She's right in hindsight but she didn't know or give him consideration just like he didn't give her any.

This still doesn’t address why his legitimate points weren’t given screen time at all. This isn’t an equal and opposite parts situation.
 

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, CanisNoir said:

 

I agree completely, the show failed because the Show Runners abandoned it and the last few seasons show it. The point I was getting at, was that I felt they pretty much had to faithfully adapt the Source because they didn't actually know how the characters got from the beginning to the ending. (i.e. The books weren't complete yet). This limited them, in my opinion, on how much they could change\alter the source because of "the ripple effect". They still made some changes, of course, but most of the major changes didn't really occur until after it was clear they were going to have to write the ending on their own. This is why we got the "character assassinations" and arcs that played more into who fan favorite characters were instead of what made more narrative sense.

 

I just really think having a completed work to draw upon gives more freedom to adjust the adaptation. Which is why Rafe could pitch the story as an 8 season show keeping the Heart and Spine of the story, something D&D never could have pitched.

I never read game of thrones (whelp of time

taught me never start a series that isn’t finished yet, especially if the author is the wrong side of 50). But a friend of mine has told me they left out entire key story threads from the book and made other stuff up. 

[nicki_minajah]

15 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Disagree, shitalking the kids I coached at football always worked wonders for me.

 

There are always outlying situations. ?

[RhienneAgain]

22 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

 

But why you feel this is based on?  If you only read EotW with no knowledge going forward you'd get a similar view of Men=Stupid and arrogant and failures while Women have to pick up the pieces.

 

 

Except I don't think you do, or at least I didn't.  Even in the EotW I think it is very clear the gender divide is being played upon in a slightly tongue in cheek manner.  I don't think the reader is meant to take away that the men are stupid and arrogant while the women pick up the pieces, only that that's what a lot of women in the world think.  The POVs of Rand and Perrin help you to develop an appreciation for the male characters and how they don't meet the stereotypes that female characters have of them.  Unfortunately (imo) the TV hasn't found a way to handle this as effectively.

[notpropaganda73]

1 hour ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I'm a little confused at why people have an issue with Moiraine holding a knife to his throat. What other play does she have? It's too soon for her to start rugby tackling Forsakens. She's doing the only thing she can even if she knows it's probably pointless.

 

As for Ishamael I don't know he probably feels he can just heal him if he needs to anyway.

 

Yeah that's fair, I guess it just felt a little hollow to me in the scene. Not a huge issue but just something that didn't work for me while watching it

[Scarloc99]

I think not spending more time on Ishmael meant that it was hard to understand who

he was and what he was doing. This was a weakness to me, some of the dream conversation sequences would have been better. 

[KakitaOCU]

35 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

So what part specifically in the Strike at Shayol Ghul do you think depicted LTT as unwilling to work with people? I'm genuinly curious because to me it pretty clearly shows him proposing a plan, that plan being made unworkable, and him accepting that and going along with the other plan until that plan was made impossible, forcing his hand into putting his own plan into action. In this contexts which is the context of the scene the show is based on, I'm just not seeing his unwillingness to budge.

He didn't budge, he decided he'd let them try their plan first and it failed and he went.  We're arguing two different points.  I'm saying he's not willing to compromise, to bend his plan for other insights.  That's not the same as refusing to work with others.
 

36 minutes ago, gibbons said:

If it was a public meeting I would agree, but in a private setting while discussing potentially literal world shattering events? He would not have to show his emotions for the entire meeting either, a quick slip of the mask as she leaves, or a nod to the flame and the void would have made all the difference and would not have taken up any more screen time than the scene already did.

 

Not really how it works.  You spend so much time as a public figure, as a rock, as a certain image and it becomes very intuitive to just always be on.  Letting guards down is a deliberate action, not the relaxation of something you were deliberately holding before.

Different people work different ways, but I've known and been the guy who's so calculated and calm as a persona that it doesn't easily turn off ever.

 

30 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

This still doesn’t address why his legitimate points weren’t given screen time at all. This isn’t an equal and opposite parts situation.
 

 

We don't know why those points weren't given screen time.  Maybe all your fears are true and it's an evil leftist anti man plot.  Or may be there's more to be shown later and the deliberate feeling of season one is to show men as arrogant and overbearing to later turn the tables.  Or maybe there's an entirely different reason neither of us has thought of.
 

22 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

Except I don't think you do, or at least I didn't.  Even in the EotW I think it is very clear the gender divide is being played upon in a slightly tongue in cheek manner.  I don't think the reader is meant to take away that the men are stupid and arrogant while the women pick up the pieces, only that that's what a lot of women in the world think.  The POVs of Rand and Perrin help you to develop an appreciation for the male characters and how they don't meet the stereotypes that female characters have of them.  Unfortunately (imo) the TV hasn't found a way to handle this as effectively.

 

That's going to come down to perception.  There's also a simple reality that when you have certain unthinking biases (Using generic you, want to clarify since I've unintentionally left other people thinking I was targeting them specifically.) you tend to read situations harsher than they actually are.

Not sure if you're familiar with L. E. Modesitt Jr.  But both The Towers of Sunset in his Recluce Saga and the first three books of the Spellsong Cycle can read very... off if you don't analyze what's going on.  I read both as a kid and came away going "Why are they being so over-reactive to these men?  It's not that big a deal."  Then as an adult and having more experience and understanding what people had gone through.  I understand exactly what's going on and am on board with how it's written and how the female characters act.

[Guest Testeria]

6 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

as long as the rules are consistant

 

They won't. Holywood writers despise any rules of magic because the rules hinder their creative needs. So the rules would change from scene to scene. Remember, those are very self-centered people. They do not care for book readers, or the author's vision - they only care for their own creative talent  ?

 

 

6 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

in the TV show then in the interest of removing reams of boring dialogue explaining things that actually, in the grand schemes of a TV show, don't matter

 

There is really no need to explain anything. If Egwene heals and no one is explaining this, the same would be if Egwene could not heal. There are only few things that must be explained (for example that channeler cannot heal herself). If anyone would be interested in engineering of magic they could always read the wiki. Most people probably do not care.

[JaimAybara]

1 minute ago, KakitaOCU said:

Maybe all your fears are true and it's an evil leftist anti man plot.

I’ve never once said this is a leftist plot. You are putting words in my mouth. I don’t have to be a conservative to want fair representation for men. 

[KakitaOCU]

5 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

I’ve never once said this is a leftist plot. You are putting words in my mouth. I don’t have to be a conservative to want fair representation for men. 

I was exaggerating to a point.  But in general, if you take the stance that the show is ruining the male characters to increase the female characters and make comments about RJ2's agenda.  Yeah, that essentially ties into the idea that it's a "Woke culture" ploy.

In general, the idea that there's any deliberate attempt to undermine men for any agenda is an unrealistic fear with no real support regardless of what you call it.

[CaddySedai]

And we're done. 

 

Talk of leftists, conservatives? 

 

This thread has jumped the rails. 

 

Starting a new one. To put this track to bed and also its now 46 pages deep so - just good housekeeping too.