The Ways in the Fourth Age.

[Rhettles]

Will the Ways in the Fourth Age be  Safe, Sealed, Forgotten or destroyed in some fashion?    

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Rhettles said:

Will the Ways in the Fourth Age be  Safe, Sealed, Forgotten or destroyed in some fashion?    

https://www.tor.com/2019/01/28/unfettered-iii-wheel-of-time-a-fire-within-the-ways/

[Rhettles]

On 9/17/2021 at 3:06 AM, SinisterDeath said:

https://www.tor.com/2019/01/28/unfettered-iii-wheel-of-time-a-fire-within-the-ways/

Yeah I know.  But this isn't canon and I wanted to see some fan speculation.  The ways, vacuoles etc = very interesting.  Let's get some theories going ?

[Kat_152]

I think that either the ways are going to heal themselves, an Asha'man will find a way to heal them, or an Asha'man will destroy the ways (after all, if they were created by saidin, saidin can probably destroy it too) and find a way to create new ways, fresh ways that were never fouled by the taint.

[Andra]

If it's true that the taint in the Ways is the same as the taint on Saidin, it should be the case that cleansing Saidin also cleansed the Ways.  The damage it caused would still be there, of course.  But the Talisman of Growing should now have the ability to heal it.

 

However, since Fain supposedly found a kinship with Machin Shin, the corruption there may be just as different from the taint on Saidin as Mashadar is.  Which grew from the evil that men created, not from the Dark One.  And we know that (at least where Fain was involved) Mashadar survived the cleansing and the end of Shadar Logoth.

 

Given the timing of when the Ways became corrupted, I would go with the first option.  The corruption of the Ways was removed at the same time Saidin was cleansed.  But because of the difference in how time flows there, the result may take a while to be seen.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Andra

[Rhettles]

14 hours ago, Andra said:

If it's true that the taint in the Ways is the same as the taint on Saidin, it should be the case that cleansing Saidin also cleansed the Ways.

The taint left residual evil in the form of black thorns on the brains of the ashaman which had to be healed by Nynaeve after the cleansing and Rand said something like "Saidin is clean, but are we?".  I personally don't think the Ways could heal themselves, but maybe without an ongoing connection to the dark one and the taint maybe they can now be cleansed.  Or maybe they will just die, like a zombie with its head cut off.   Personally I like the idea of the Ways dying,  ready to be born again in a new turning of the Wheel. 

[Andra]

1 hour ago, Rhettles said:

The taint left residual evil in the form of black thorns on the brains of the ashaman which had to be healed by Nynaeve after the cleansing and Rand said something like "Saidin is clean, but are we?".  

Which would certainly be a related, but different, possibility.

If the the corruption of the Ways isn't the Dark One's taint directly, but rather the equivalent of the madness it causes, cleansing one simply simply stops the other from getting worse.

I could see something like a group of Yellows working with the Ogier and their Talisman of Growing to actually be needed to "heal" the Ways."  Just as will pretty clearly happen to Heal all the Asha'man.

 

And it would be consistent with their description as being in some way "alive."

 

Something has to be alive in order to be Healed.

[Rhettles]

3 hours ago, Andra said:

And it would be consistent with their description as being in some way "alive."

 

Something has to be alive in order to be Healed.

Loial does say "they are a living thing, in some way, the Ways, and all living things have parasites".  And I think its Moiraine  who says she thinks that Machin Shin might be something "born of the corruption itself".   So healed or cleansed, it's hard to say. The majority of the current yellow ajah are a fairly unimaginative lot for the most part, but they do seem to be inspired by Nynaeve and the Ashaman, so maybe they will come up with something.  I'd have thought the Brown and Green Ajahs might have come together to sort out the Ways long since, but maybe we  can chalk that up to 3000 years of Black Ajah stirring white tower dissent.  

It's a nice thought to imagine Loial enjoying the new Age with Erith and a baby ogier exploring the world by travelling through a sunlit Ways,  planting and singing to fruit trees as he goes.  ?

[Andra]

2 hours ago, Rhettles said:

Loial does say "they are a living thing, in some way, the Ways, and all living things have parasites".  And I think its Moiraine  who says she thinks that Machin Shin might be something "born of the corruption itself".   So healed or cleansed, it's hard to say. The majority of the current yellow ajah are a fairly unimaginative lot for the most part, but they do seem to be inspired by Nynaeve and the Ashaman, so maybe they will come up with something.  I'd have thought the Brown and Green Ajahs might have come together to sort out the Ways long since, but maybe we  can chalk that up to 3000 years of Black Ajah stirring white tower dissent.  

It's a nice thought to imagine Loial enjoying the new Age with Erith and a baby ogier exploring the world by travelling through a sunlit Ways,  planting and singing to fruit trees as he goes.  ?

A baby Ogier.

Now that's something the books never describe.  Love it.

?

[Sabio]

19 hours ago, Rhettles said:

The taint left residual evil in the form of black thorns on the brains of the ashaman which had to be healed by Nynaeve after the cleansing and Rand said something like "Saidin is clean, but are we?".  I personally don't think the Ways could heal themselves, but maybe without an ongoing connection to the dark one and the taint maybe they can now be cleansed.  Or maybe they will just die, like a zombie with its head cut off.   Personally I like the idea of the Ways dying,  ready to be born again in a new turning of the Wheel. 

That's how I saw it as, just because the male half is clean doesn't repair the damage that the corruption caused.  After all during some age the Ways won't be needed, technology will be able to get you somewhere quicker than the Ways.  So it's likely at some point they will die off so they can be created again at the next breaking.

 

What happened to Rand going about trapping the exits of the Ways so any Shadowspawn would die slowly after leaving them?  I know he didn't get all of them but that part seems to of been forgotten.

[Andra]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

That's how I saw it as, just because the male half is clean doesn't repair the damage that the corruption caused.  After all during some age the Ways won't be needed, technology will be able to get you somewhere quicker than the Ways.  So it's likely at some point they will die off so they can be created again at the next breaking.

 

What happened to Rand going about trapping the exits of the Ways so any Shadowspawn would die slowly after leaving them?  I know he didn't get all of them but that part seems to of been forgotten.

From some of the things we see later, there's a strong implication that Darkfriends found at least some of the traps and removed them.  It's almost explicitly stated as such when describing how Shadowspawn got into Caemlyn at the end.

[Rhettles]

1 hour ago, Andra said:

From some of the things we see later, there's a strong implication that Darkfriends found at least some of the traps and removed them.  It's almost explicitly stated as such when describing how Shadowspawn got into Caemlyn at the end.

Rand didn't exactly keep what he was doing a secret by yelling for maps and having an animated discussion about it in a public court yard with 3 x Ogier surounded by hundreds of Aiel and palace servants.  Later on, Ishamael certainly knew Rand had placed traps around the waygate at Shadar Logoth when he told Rand  to find Sammael "next to something he (Rand) had marked as his own".  And lastly, the shadow's forces had just as many skilled channellers as the Light side and could Travel just as easily as Rand, so accessing way gates wasn't ever a problem for team darkfriend.

So yep, I'd say Rands traps failed for the most part.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Rhettles

[Rhettles]

23 hours ago, Andra said:

A baby Ogier.

Now that's something the books never describe.  Love it.

?

What is the term for baby ogier do you think?   Ogierling? ?   Sprouts?   ?