Was Gitara Moroso Black Ajah?

[solarz]

He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"

- Gitara Moroso

 

From Towers of Midnight:

 

The window was broken. Bashere glanced out of it. “Lady Torkumen is down there.”

“She jumped,” Torkumen whispered, clawing at his eye sockets, fingers covered with blood. He sounded dazed. “That light…That terrible light.”

Ituralde glanced at Bashere.

“I cannot watch it,” Torkumen muttered. “I cannot! Great Lord, where is your protection? Where are your armies to rend, your swords to strike? That Light eats at my mind, like rats feasting on a corpse. It burns at my thoughts. It killed me. That light killed me.”

“He’s gone mad,” Bashere said grimly, kneeling down beside the man. “Better than he deserved, judging by those ramblings. Light! My own cousin a Darkfriend. And in control of the city!”

“What is he talking about?” one of Bashere’s men said. “A light? Surely he couldn’t have seen the battle. None of these windows face the right way.”

 

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Rand eventually reached him. “Meet my eyes, Weiramon,” Rand said softly.

“My Lord Dragon, surely I am not worthy to—”

“Do it.”

Weiramon did so with an odd difficulty. He looked as if he was gritting his teeth, his eyes watering.

“So it is you,” Rand said. Min could feel his disappointment. Rand looked to the side, to where Anaiyella stood last in line. The pretty woman had pulled away from Rand, her head turned. “Both of you.”

“My Lord—” Weiramon began.

“I want you to deliver a message for me,” Rand said. “To the others of your…association. Tell them that they cannot hide among my allies any longer.”

Weiramon tried to bluster, but Rand took a step closer. Weiramon’s eyes opened wide, and Anaiyella cried out, shading her face.

 

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Gitara cried that the Dragon Reborn burned like the sun before promptly falling over dead. This is suspiciously similar to the reaction of darkfriends toward Rand in his full glory.

 

Gitara may have set Moiraine on the path to Rand, but that was certainly not her intention. Previously, she had sent Tigraine and Luc away from Andor, triggering a succession war. A lot of people assume that she was doing the work of the Light because of how things eventually turned out, but I've always thought that this was a pretty evil move. The Pattern works with what it has, there were a lot of ways for Rand to be born on the slopes of Dragonmount, why did it have to involve so much hardship and tragedy? Sending Luc to the Blight resulted in the creation of Slayer, something that definitely benefitted the Shadow.

 

It was entirely possible that Gitara had a foretelling similar to that of Elaida, that the royal line of Andor was connected to the Dragon Reborn, and that she was trying to sabotage the Dragon's Rebirth.

Edited April 5, 2018 by solarz

[Sabio]

No she wasn't.  If she was she wouldn't of done things to ensure the dragon was reborn etc.  She could of just stayed quiet.

[solarz]

2 minutes ago, Sabio said:

No she wasn't.  If she was she wouldn't of done things to ensure the dragon was reborn etc.  She could of just stayed quiet.

 

She couldn't have. We know that Aes Sedai who foretell often have no control over when and how the foretelling comes to them. A very strong foretelling (and the birth of the Dragon Reborn would have been an extremely strong one indeed) could seize the AS and leave them a drained wreck.

[Sabio]

She could of not sent Luc to the blight, she could of not sent Rand's mom to the waste.  This was all done in secret.  No one knew where they went to.  If she publicly had those foretellings people would of known.  Simply not sending Rand's mom to the waste would of changed things.  

 

 

[solarz]

5 minutes ago, Sabio said:

She could of not sent Luc to the blight, she could of not sent Rand's mom to the waste.  This was all done in secret.  No one knew where they went to.  If she publicly had those foretellings people would of known.  Simply not sending Rand's mom to the waste would of changed things.  

 

I think that's the most common misconception. People assume that Tigraine had to go to the Waste for Rand to be born.

 

The problem is, there is no evidence that Gitara would know this. In any case, even if Tigraine going to the Waste was necessary, why did Luc need to go to the Blight? That served no purpose whatsoever in the Dragon's Rebirth, and only gave the Shadow a deadly tool.

 

If we drop the assumption that Gitara knew how everything would play out, what did her actions accomplish? Effectively the destruction of the Andoran royal line at the time. That is evil, plain and simple.

[wotfan4472]

Gitara had other Foretellings. We know that Amys knew Tigraine. We also know thanks to her that Gitara's sending Tigraine to the Waste in the first place was because of a Foretelling regarding Tigraine going to the Waste and her brother meeting Isam. These two figures were absolutely critical to Rand's success or failure. Considering what Lanfear tried to do during his fight with the Dark One, Perrin would not have failed completely if Luc had not gone.

[Sabio]

If I remember right Tigraine simply said if she didn't go to the waste and be a maiden then disaster would happen.  Remember Elaida had a foretelling that the Andor royal line was key to the Last battle so as soon as it became clear Morgase was going to be queen she latched on to Morgase.  I assume it was the patterns way to ensure Elayne became queen.  All Gitara knew is those actions had to happen or else, not the why it had to.

[shintemaster]

3 hours ago, Sabio said:

If I remember right Tigraine simply said if she didn't go to the waste and be a maiden then disaster would happen.  Remember Elaida had a foretelling that the Andor royal line was key to the Last battle so as soon as it became clear Morgase was going to be queen she latched on to Morgase.  I assume it was the patterns way to ensure Elayne became queen.  All Gitara knew is those actions had to happen or else, not the why it had to.

I think you're reading that back to front. Elaida had a fortelling that the Andoran line would be key to winning the last battle and the inference is that she incorrectly took that to be Morgase' line rather than the currently missing line (ie. Tigraine / Luc)

[solarz]

On 4/5/2018 at 8:45 PM, wotfan4472 said:

Gitara had other Foretellings. We know that Amys knew Tigraine. We also know thanks to her that Gitara's sending Tigraine to the Waste in the first place was because of a Foretelling regarding Tigraine going to the Waste and her brother meeting Isam. These two figures were absolutely critical to Rand's success or failure. Considering what Lanfear tried to do during his fight with the Dark One, Perrin would not have failed completely if Luc had not gone.

 

On 4/5/2018 at 8:48 PM, Sabio said:

If I remember right Tigraine simply said if she didn't go to the waste and be a maiden then disaster would happen.  Remember Elaida had a foretelling that the Andor royal line was key to the Last battle so as soon as it became clear Morgase was going to be queen she latched on to Morgase.  I assume it was the patterns way to ensure Elayne became queen.  All Gitara knew is those actions had to happen or else, not the why it had to.

 

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that there is no indication that Gitara knew exactly what would happen if Tigraine went to the Waste. All we know is from third-hand accounts, where Tigraine believed that disaster would befall the world if she didn't. It is assumed that this was part of Gitara's foretelling, when it could just as easily be Black Ajah manipulation. In fact, we have seen exactly this kind of manipulation from Liandrin with Egwene.

 

The more troubling question is why would Luc and Tigraine knowingly jeopardize the fate of their entire nation on such a vague threat? Can we imagine what Elayne or Gawyn's reactions would have been under the same circumstances? Could some form of compulsion have been involved?

 

Even then, this by itself might just indicate that Gitara was a ruthless person who was somehow unquestionably trusted by the Andoran crown. However, when paired with the fact that Gitara felt burned by the Dragon's Rebirth and died from the shock, it makes me very suspicious of her true allegiance.

[Sabio]

The companion doesn't list her a black ajah.  But the companion sheds some light on a few of your questions.

 

She was trusted by the crown since she was the advisor to the queen before Tamara made her the keeper. So it wasn't a strange Aes Sedai telling them this, they would of known of her ability to foretell.  I think what is comes down to is a person who can't lie approaches you and says if you don't do this disaster is going to happen, so they did it.  I still think poor Luc got screwed over in all of it.

 

The foretelling doesn't lay out the entire future of what will or won't happen.  Like ELaida's it's just a brief thing so all Gitara knew is they needed to do this or it would be bad if they don't.  Not exactly why they had to do it.  

 

 

[wotfan4472]

Gitara was quite specific that the world hung on Tigraine and Luc going. This is how Foretelling works. Little bits of specific future instances that are understood only depending on how strong the Talent is. Gitara clearly remembered her Foretellings, since we know from Elaida's POV that she was jealous that Gitara remembered them when Elaida herself did not. We also know that the Aes Sedai in Paaran Disen had very specific information that showed Callandor's importance. Indicating that these were Foretellings and very big chunks of information they were too, considering the Stone was built around the time of the Eye of The World; in fact, immediately afterwards would be my guess. That scene indicates they knew everything except that it was to happen three thousand years later and the Aiel would change over that time.

Edited April 11, 2018 by wotfan4472