[Game thread]Magic The Gathering

[Shad_]

Re: EoD

 

The idea that has been setting in on DM lately that D1 is a crap shoot is garbage and for the sake of my win % villagers need to start understanding that it's garbage.

 

We lynch wolves on D1 here.

 

Often.  Extremely often.  I really piss people off by posting the stats of how often we lynch wolves on D1 here.

 

A three way tie with 2 votes each at EoD is as good as a concession.  You will never have a phase where all wolves are alive and less willing to bus than D1.   If you actually string people up, you can study the reaction patterns, look for people tossing out excuses to move the train, weak justification for counterwagons, weak justification to jump on board an easy lynch, etc.  If you successfully hunt villagers, you can force wolves into making awkward concessions that stand out for lack of reasoning.  People talk about needing flips to have information to work with.  No.  D1 is the information phase, if you use it appropriately.

 

What on earth does a 3 way tie of 2 votes buy you?  A 3 scum team literally has 100% control of that lynch.  No one gets properly cleared if a wolf dies because you know for a fact that they were mechanically capable of preventing it.  Everyone looks bad if a villager dies.  It's a conceded phase.

 

I thought LZM had a better chance of flipping scum than Darthe by a hair, so I took a stand and locked in a proper lynch.  And guess what?  If he flipped scum then BFG and Cass and Dice and everyone else who knows me would tell you I am never a wolf in this game and they would be right.  A villager's first job is to do the most they can to prove they are a villager.  People not voting and complacently letting it randomize between three players are basically saying "I think I'll just try to blend in with the wolves this phase."

[Shad_]

My main reasoning is your sudden last minute switch to LZM from ALF when it was a 3 way tie. I asked you why the switch and have still yet to get an answer that I have been able to see. (May have gotten one but mobile sucks quite terribly).

 

Saw the question, was part of my concern. I stated my intentions to do as much with plenty of time to spare.  Was brief at the time, but a reason, and I would expect someone concerned with the switch to comment.

 

Ok well I've at least read up to where I started posting and my arm's going to fall off from holding Ollie over my laptop this whole time. Darthe hasn't done anything I couldn't see him do as either alignment and he's exactly null.  LZM doing ~nothing in the time he had before his phone died looks worse if still a bleh reason for a D1 lynch, and a part of me could see Adella/LZM w/w.  I'll move my vote if needed.  I still think Alf peacing out looks worse.

[Shanti]

I can understand all of that, I'm just stating that a town person did for, you were the hammer on said town person, and it just as easily could be turned around and said that you switched from Alf to LZM or even Darthe id you went that route TO prevent his lynch because many didn't vote and anyone could have come in with a last minute vote to lynch him.

 

I will admit, your fighting me is making you look better. I do understand the logic you're speaking. Just giving my pov. I didn't expect to be able to talk this much tbh, so I wanted to at least get a list and some thoughts out before I had to go silent.

[Shad_]

Cloudflarrfff

 

More generally: my immediate concern was you taking the vote to be scummy first and asking for clarification post-conclusion. That doesn't make terribly much sense from a villager POV vs I tend to attract scum by doing bold things at EoDs because it paints a faux-easy target on my chest.

[Cuth]

gj pr

 

 

Also, Cuth. You were the first to vote for LZM, I also voted for him, but gave my reasoning and truly believed he was scum. Why did you vote for him? There was no resoning in your vote post. Your hydra pair and Shad are looking quite scummy to me on this new day. I would like some explanations. Shad is looking a bit worse atm, though.

i explained why earlier, mentioned him several times

 

had no real scumreads, had been underwhelmed by the slot in the <10 posts given

[Cuth]

i'll be back

[Shanti]

I'm sorry to be that person, but I'm not following at this point. If ALF looked worse, then why switch? I really am truly sorry that it isn't clicking for me.

[Shanti]

I'll just say if you're attempting to hint I'm scum, you're seriously barking up the wrong tree, unless you're scum and using my confusion to frame me and get me lynched.. but I'm just extremely confused, nothing more...but very much town.. and I'm going to take a step back and wait to have a laptop so I can follow easier and hopefully be able to form a coherent thought regarding all of this.

 

 

Cuth, sounds like scum naming an easy target there.

[Shanti]

Actually, expanding on that thought... your response hits me much harder as scum than Shad fighting back.

 

I have an icky feeling about your posts so far, your logic.. and honestly just what you and Nyn overall have contributed to the game solving. (None, really)

 

[v] cuthanyn [/v]

[Shad_]

I can understand all of that, I'm just stating that a town person did for, you were the hammer on said town person, and it just as easily could be turned around and said that you switched from Alf to LZM or even Darthe id you went that route TO prevent his lynch because many didn't vote and anyone could have come in with a last minute vote to lynch him.

 

I will admit, your fighting me is making you look better. I do understand the logic you're speaking. Just giving my pov. I didn't expect to be able to talk this much tbh, so I wanted to at least get a list and some thoughts out before I had to go silent.

 

I guess generically bussing and then switch to a villager near EoD is a thing wolves do, but it doesn't really look into the nuts and bolts of the thing.  I'd like to hear a more in context take on EoD from you once you can look back.

[Shanti]

Will do. Should be at destination, truck willing, in about an hour.

[Adella]

Okay, I caught up and still have full intention to do an iso, but (pending something huge jumping out during my iso, cause it's possible) I'm pretty sure I have figured who one scummate is. I'm not leaving, just will take me a while to make my read.

[Killashandra]

Dont leave us hanging Adella. I hate clif hangers.

[Shad_]

Frankly I like "he was here but didn't do jack" better than your reasons of him asking about hydra chat and grumbling about no night chat after playing in a game with a hydra and no night chat.  >_>

 

I can't really hate on Cuth for thinking ~the same thing I was, granted it wasn't a particularly deep and magical moment.  If he's scum he's not playing any differently than I'd expect a villager to, albeit that's fairly easy going when villagers want to roll over and die.  /shrug

[Shad_]

I'll just say if you're attempting to hint I'm scum, you're seriously barking up the wrong tree, unless you're scum and using my confusion to frame me and get me lynched.. but I'm just extremely confused, nothing more...but very much town.. and I'm going to take a step back and wait to have a laptop so I can follow easier and hopefully be able to form a coherent thought regarding all of this.

 

 

Cuth, sounds like scum naming an easy target there.

 

Two low profile players flipped town, gotta look higher up the pecking order.  If you're a villager just be villagery and you'll do fine.  I'm still going to probe your slot.

[Shad_]

@Adella I need to ISO you again.

[Cuth]

I'll just say if you're attempting to hint I'm scum, you're seriously barking up the wrong tree, unless you're scum and using my confusion to frame me and get me lynched.. but I'm just extremely confused, nothing more...but very much town.. and I'm going to take a step back and wait to have a laptop so I can follow easier and hopefully be able to form a coherent thought regarding all of this.

 

 

Cuth, sounds like scum naming an easy target there.

i

 

okay, that's great?

 

i don't know what else you'd like me to do?

 

should i have fabricated a strong case for scum on someone else that i had no reason to for the kicks?

 

i voted on my best guess for scum, and explained why

 

yes, they flipped town, and that's regrettable and all

 

i will say that i approve of shad's reasoning, and it makes me feel even better about him as town

 

i heavily disagree with your reasoning on him, it looks to me like cherrypicking and complaining about it because a town died

 

you can't argue that zep was legitimately scummy, even if you didn't think he should have been lynched 

 

breaking a tie is the optimal play there always

[Shad_]

Also @Shanti I noticed your comment again about not liking my quick switch into calling BFG town: you'll see a lot of bold declarative reads from me D1. I do it as town and will fake the same as scum. You'll get used to it over a few games.  You asked what brought me to the sudden conclusion: I spoke at length about it afterwards.  Have you gotten to that now, and if so how does it affect your read?

[Cuth]

Actually, expanding on that thought... your response hits me much harder as scum than Shad fighting back.

 

I have an icky feeling about your posts so far, your logic.. and honestly just what you and Nyn overall have contributed to the game solving. (None, really)

 

[v] cuthanyn [/v]

i'm sorry, should i have townread more people and gave more reasoning?

[Cuth]

something something given

[Shanti]

To each their own, but at least I made points more than, he did nothing. Darthe also did nothing but make a wild vote. Alf did nothing... LZM had much more than either of those, albeit his content was reading scummy, he still did more. I find the argument to be dismal at best.

[Cuth]

wait lol

 

i just looked back and saw who you voted

 

you're giving us a hard time for voting zep for... what reasons, exactly?

 

you seem to be asking me to rehash the reasons i gave yesterday and shad to explain why he broke a tie to vote with a wagon that you were on, rather than letting it rand or having someone else vote someone else

[Shad_]

To each their own, but at least I made points more than, he did nothing. Darthe also did nothing but make a wild vote. Alf did nothing... LZM had much more than either of those, albeit his content was reading scummy, he still did more. I find the argument to be dismal at best.

 

 

I recognize Darthe did very little but you're going to have to give me an explanation on how you got to second red.

[Killashandra]

Lol that is kinda funny. Not saying anything about that for either of you other than ha.

[Cuth]

To each their own, but at least I made points more than, he did nothing. Darthe also did nothing but make a wild vote. Alf did nothing... LZM had much more than either of those, albeit his content was reading scummy, he still did more. I find the argument to be dismal at best.

cool, you were able to say more words about your vote

 

does that make my reasoning invalid? not last i checked

 

darthe didn't come across as scum and i've generally been able to read him pretty well

 

alf did nothing/was being pushed in a way i felt was slightly >rand town

 

zep was my strongest scumread, ergo i voted him and kept doing so