[Basic] Peg + Cat Mafia -- TOWN WIN

[Eldrick4221]

I don't see any evidence of Tress realizing that Hally was seer D2. She spends a good portion of the beginning going after Hally for how Hally answered her question for why Redd was killed. By the end of the day, she has Hally as basically null/town.

 

I can see Tress as scum and not realizing Hally was seer.

[Spadeszee]

I don't see any evidence of Tress realizing that Hally was seer D2. She spends a good portion of the beginning going after Hally for how Hally answered her question for why Redd was killed. By the end of the day, she has Hally as basically null/town.

 

I can see Tress as scum and not realizing Hally was seer.

omg. hold on let me just close this door for you with quotes.

[Eldrick4221]

Please do

[Spadeszee]

*sigh* do I really have to say it? DON'T VOTE LZM

 

 

Tress gets it...

 

 

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Eldrick (1) - Adella

 

LZM (2) - Eldrick, Shanti

 

Dice/Cass (2) - Hallia, Tress

 

Ed (1) - Spades

 

Hallia (2) - Dice/Cass, Tigraine

 

Not Voting: Darthe, LedZepMan, ed2funy

 

 

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

 

 

 

 

Do seer's get day or night peeks? Cause aren't we on day 2?

She claimed me as her N1 peek earlier. Only me and one other have been covering.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do seer's get day or night peeks? Cause aren't we on day 2?

She claimed me as her N1 peek earlier. Only me and one other have been covering.

Okay then it still makes 0 sense for her to vote Cass/dice with no reasoning. She said LZM is town.....1 peek 1 night

 

You get a n0 peek, which was LZM.

 

 

 

@Tigs - in this type of setup the seer starts the game with the name of one confirmed vanilla townie in their role PM, known as a N0 peek - it's randomized by the mod.

 

That's why so many of us were hard clearing someone as town D1, to lay down cover for the actual seer to be able to reveal their results.

 

Tress followed Hallias vote on Dice-Cass AFTER Hallia claimed her role but had been getting null-scum reads from them, same as Hallia. Tress also responded to Tigs about the role set up. There is no way she didn't understand why Tigs was asking these questions.

Again, my mentor explained that Tress lost a game for not killing PR when she had the chance. Tress understood what Hallia was and what she was doing.

 

We are NOT lynching Tress tonight.

Tress was in the thread the entire time this happened.

[Eldrick4221]

Because

 

With all that being said, I feel strongest about Tress. She has been able to get a bunch of the heat off of her, but it's going onto inactive players and that is way too easy for the scum. In my experience scum is usually pretty active because they like to know when something important is said, and they won't skim. Maybe somehow someone missed Hallia's reveal, but I find it unlikely that the scum would, as that is exactly what they would be looking for.

 

[v]Tress[/v]

Adella points out that scum would have seen Hally's claim..then votes Tress. If we can get evidence that Tress saw it, this falls apart.

[Eldrick4221]

[V]Adella [/v]

 

I'm convinced she's just trying to get someone besides her lynched.

[Spadeszee]

Adella was nowhere to be found that night, she probably didn't even read the thread which would seriously explain why Hallia wasn't killed.

[Eldrick4221]

*nods*

[Eldrick4221]

Other than that point, Adella's reason for Tress was actually a good one.

[Shad_]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Adella (2) - LZM, Eldrick

 

Tress (1) - Adella

 

Not Voting: Songstress, Spadeszee, Tigraine, Shanti

 

 

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

 

[Adella]

Other than that point, Adella's reason for Tress was actually a good one.

Remember this when I flip town.

[Adella]

@Adella why do you think Hally survived N2?

What? How do you really expect me to answer that? I honestly have no idea. Maybe they thought there was still reasonable doubt. Maybe they wanted us to question who was scum because people would assume only newbies wouldn't Lynch the seer. Maybe the last scummate alive is new and no one else was checking in to their qt. I could probably list a dozen possibilities and it will turn out to be something I didn't even think of. I try not to go too far down that rabbit hole, which is also why I said what I did earlier in game about the reasoning behind nks.

[Eldrick4221]

I ask because you believe it's Tress, yet you also point out that Tress had figured out Hally was the seer.

[Eldrick4221]

I expected your answer to take that into account. And it didn't. You took the general approach.

 

Happy with my vote.

[Adella]

Lol, so I didn't give you the answer you wanted and that's scummy? What a weird response.

 

To have it on paper for when I flip town, my views are:

 

Townie to scummy

Adella

LZM

Spades

Shanti

Eldrick

Tigs

Tress

[Songstress]

Tress. Tigs says she's liked your response, but I don't.

 

I get feeling bad about having wrong reads. But while you addressed why you don't want to talk about being wrong about Darthe (that's fine), you didn't cover what I feel is the most important part of what she asked you.

 

Why you didn't react to his flip.

 

I can assume from what you did say it's because you want to forget about the part of the game where you were wrong, but that you didn't address the question bothers me. Instead you took the self pity route.

My God, Eldrick, I will never understand how your mind works.

 

What is so ambiguous about my statement that I don't want to comment on how wrong I was about Darthe that you think reacting to his flip should have been an exception that I covered separately?

 

My first read on Darthe was that I don't read him well and wanted to see where his pushes led.

 

I've had a terrible game, and after my assumption that mafia wasn't seer hunting N1 got me nothing but made to feel stupid, I seriously considered dropping seer cover entirely, but hardly anyone was even attempting it D2 and Eldrick specifically stated he was dropping it.  I had nobody left that I wasn't actively suspicious of at the moment or had already shown suspicion of D2, so as a last ditch effort I decided to use Darthe as my N1 peek because I honestly wasn't as worried about him, he hadn't been around and trying to control the thread.

 

So my reads have been abysmal, my attempt at seer cover was a ridiculous failure, and to even allow myself to post in the thread I've been trying to forget the first 2 game days even existed so no, I don't want to comment on how wrong I was about Darthe, or I will probably just give up on mafia altogether.

 

Thanks.

[Songstress]

Other than that point, Adella's reason for Tress was actually a good one.

 

OK, so let's see what part of this reasoning you thought was actually good.

 

 

Tress: D1, her first read was very non committal about Alex and Darthe, even though she had pointed out that she wasn't comfortable with how Darthe had asked about "that scum thing you do".

 

Here's my first read list:

 

Early reads and thoughts in list form, in rough order of town to scum leans.  

 

----------

 

9. Adella - n0 peek town

 

7. Dice + Cass - I feel pretty good about Cass's involvement and questioning so far. I still want more Dice in the thread, because if I am not sure Dice is town by the end of D1, experience has proven that he's probably not.  A little worried about the fact that Cass isn't more paranoid about my alignment.  Cautiously town, pending more Dice.  Still waiting for that "ah, yeah, there he is" moment.  Will re-evaluate during N1.

 

3. Spadeszee - very active and appears to be productively questioning.  I'm hoping this is a town!Spades performance to use as a baseline for future games.

 

12. Shanti - feels natural and interested in solving the game, looks pretty good for a new player, slight lean town. 

 

11. Alexander7 - Aggressive and not afraid to engage people on a brand new site with no forum play experience.  Not sure I agree with how he's gone about all of it, but something is telling me he's probably town.  Not terribly confident in it, but there it is.

 

6. Ed - I think I like Ed so far.  I'd like him more if I was a little more clear on his thoughts on people's alignment. Will see where he goes from here.  Gun to head, null/town.

 

8. Hallia - Not enough game related thoughts to get a good feel for her yet.  Stick around, sweetheart, keep talking.

 

4. LedZepMan - I'm interested to see what he does with a crop of many players he doesn't know and a game playstyle that is wildly different than DM culture the last time he played. Watching and waiting.

 

1. Darthe - not a fan of his shade attempt but I don't feel confident reading Darthe D1, will have to see as the game progresses where his pushes lead.

 

10. ReddBoiler - Will take some getting used to, methinks.  Unsure where to put him for now. See the Darthe statement above.

 

13. Eldrick - something about this guy just can't stop pinging my scum radar every single game.  I have seen nothing from him that he is not capable of and likely to do as either alignment.  Undecided at this time.

 

5. Tigraine - I got a major ping from her post accusing Hallia of a slip when she said Ed sounded good ITT (as opposed to in the QT) - it felt like a reach and a half.  

 

----------

 

Looking at this list in full, I think I'm probably off-base, I likely have a scum in the middle of the range and possibly one in my actual town/townish section.  I feel the worst about Tigraine, Eld and Redd right now but I know Eldrick tends to come across as scummy to me pretty much all the damn time, and Redd is so unfamiliar to me as to make me wary of trying to figure him out on D1.  His playstyle is one that honestly would be extremely easy to get away with as scum.  I doubt more than one of my bottom 3 is actually mafia

 

Will sleep on it.

 

At the time of that list, I had been compiling the n0 peeks so I could keep track of who was leaving seer cover.  I had actually sent a PM to the mod guessing that I thought Alex was the most likely to actually be the seer, which had kind of colored my opinion of his play.  He was utterly unfamiliar to me, but based on that and his aggressive play I hazarded a guess that he was town.   And of course I was non-committal on Darthe.  Attempting to form a read on Darthe D1 is a fool's errand.  Yes, he had poked me with that "wolf thing you do" comment, but I wasn't going to write him off as mafia based on that.  Townies find other townies scummy all the time for the wrong reasons, as you should well understand.

 

Lots of posts about being "concerned" and about how hard D1 is to get any good reads (which can be true), but she seemed totally oblivious to what Alex had been posting and instead went for Tigs because of the "itt" situation.

 

I have used the word "concerned" all of once in this game. Check my ISO if you doubt it. And the majority of the posts about how hard it is to get good reads on D1 were about YOU, Eldrick.  I explained Alex above.  Tigs' "aha was that a slip" moment was the thing that had stood out to me as the most out of place, so I went that way for my D1 vote, which was coincidentally ALSO your vote, because you didn't feel like Alex was scummy enough to vote him yourself.

 

In post 3794526 she proceeded to explain how Alex's previous vote on her made sense, with lots of detail, and then at the end of that proceeded to explain why she ignored his vote. This reads as... a bit too much explanation there.

 

And again, Eldrick, this was in response to your concern that i wasn't reacting to the votes on me.  Is this a good point against me in your opinion?

 

She also had Darthe close to the scummy pile, but not in it for D2, which I find to be a pretty common scum partner thing to do. Just a little later, she comments about how Darthe must be town because he would absolutely never veer from the traditional seer strategy.

 

Actually, no.  I had Darthe in my nulls for D1, and the first thing I said about Darthe D2 was that I assumed he wasn't scum because of my (apparently idiotic) thought that the Redd kill wasn't an attempt to seer hunt.  The only reads list i did D2 was the one I did after Cass explained to me what an idiot I actually was, and that was where i decided to use Darthe as my N1 fake peek because he was the only person I felt would be a believable fake and I thought he still had a good chance to be town.  LOLme.

 

And, sorry, I don't want to upset you, but I'm starting to wonder if you got upset because you're stressed from keeping up your town persona, which I personally find to be way more stressful than being genuinely town.

 

I do get stressed when mafia.  You can find the link to Danger in Demon's Cove in Shad's database if you like, that was the pinnacle of my being stressed as mafia, in which I spent every night as I sat down at the computer trying to force myself to post in thread sobbing with frustration.  I also had a total of 56 posts the entire game thread including post-game chitchat because while I technically have very limited time to post as either alignment, I let it stop me me more when I'm mafia. 

 

Suddenly at the beginning of D3 Tigs is very town for you, and the other quiet person (other, meaning Ed was one) is your target. Easy to lynch a townie when they aren't here to answer questions or play much.

  

Yes, at the beginning of D3 Tigs was town for me, as the deciding vote between the Darthe and Eldrick trains landed on mafia. It's called re-evaluating one's reads based on new information.  Here are my thoughts that I typed up during the night phase in my notepad:

 

 

* Hallia claimed seer - LZM and Spades town

 

1. Darthe - The Toad, Mafia Goon - Lynched D2

2. Songstress

3. Spadeszee

4. LedZepMan

5. Tigraine

6. Ed

7. Dice + Cass

8. Hallia

9. Adella

10. ReddBoiler - Richard, Vanilla Town - Killed N1

11. Alexander7 - Big Mouth, Mafia Goon - Lynched D1

12. Shanti

13. Eldrick

 

Left alive:

 

8. Hallia - seer - likely NK

4. LedZepMan - n0 town

3. Spadeszee - n1 town

 

12. Shanti - possible n1 SHC, play has been townie

13. Eldrick - started train on Darthe

 

5. Tigraine - deciding vote on Darthe vs Eldrick

 

1 mafia in these three:

 

6. Ed

7. Dice + Cass

9. Adella

 

Mafia choosing to shoot Dice and Cass took away 1/3 of my POE, actually.  And Eldrick, the fact that i voted Ed shouldn't be a good point to you, since you were absolutely convinced Ed was mafia, and encouraged me to hammer.

 

So what of Adella's case here is actually a good point against me in your opinion?

[Songstress]

 

Other than that point, Adella's reason for Tress was actually a good one.

Remember this when I flip town.

 

On the off chance you actually flip town, which I doubt, I'll certainly remember his statement that he thought your case was good.

[Songstress]

All that said, I think it still far more likely that Adella is just the last mafia, which at least explains why Redd was a better choice to NK night 1 than either myself or Ed. 

 

[v]Adella[/v]

[Shad_]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Adella (3) - LZM, Eldrick, Tress

 

Tress (1) - Adella

 

Not Voting: Spadeszee, Tigraine, Shanti

 

 

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

 

[Eldrick4221]

With all that being said, I feel strongest about Tress. She has been able to get a bunch of the heat off of her, but it's going onto inactive players and that is way too easy for the scum. In my experience scum is usually pretty active because they like to know when something important is said, and they won't skim. Maybe somehow someone missed Hallia's reveal, but I find it unlikely that the scum would, as that is exactly what they would be looking for.

This is what I was saying was a good point.

[Songstress]

 

With all that being said, I feel strongest about Tress. She has been able to get a bunch of the heat off of her, but it's going onto inactive players and that is way too easy for the scum. In my experience scum is usually pretty active because they like to know when something important is said, and they won't skim. Maybe somehow someone missed Hallia's reveal, but I find it unlikely that the scum would, as that is exactly what they would be looking for.

This is what I was saying was a good point.

 

 

So she's suggesting I'm scum because the inactive players are taking heat?

 

Like Ed, who you wanted to lynch?

 

And if she's saying I'm scum, she's saying I didn't miss Hallia's reveal - but chose not to kill her anyway because ???.

 

 

You think this is a good point against me?

[Tigraine]

Ftr, Adella was semi-correct on the Tress/Darthe thing.

 

She said I stated that Tress was 'always" calling Darthe town, when in reality I said she did multiple times but I was wrong.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/100718-basic-peg-cat-mafia-day-4/?view=findpost&p=3794555

 

In this one Tress said Darthe was town in her opinion based on the choice of NK.

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/100718-basic-peg-cat-mafia-day-4/?view=findpost&p=3794919

 

This is the one I screwed up on, she had said something along the lines of "if I'm seer then Adella and Darthe are town"

 

Then later when someone calls darthe out she pseudo defends him by saying he would come back and say he had forgotten about the game or some such.

 

Just wanted to clarify that.

 

But I don't like the light that you are trying to put on Tress for being hammer on Ed. I'm not trying to defend her but there were a few of us that were confident that he was the last wolf. Giving Ed a chance to come in and defend himself might have been a path we should've taken but even when he was present, he wasn't saying much.

 

On that note, I wanted to give you a chance to come and say something but nothing you have said has changed my mind.

 

[V] Adella [/v]

[Shad_]

FINAL VOTE COUNT

 

Adella (4) - LZM, Eldrick, Tress, Tig

 

Tress (1) - Adella

 

Not Voting: Spadeszee, Shanti

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

With all that being said, I feel strongest about Tress. She has been able to get a bunch of the heat off of her, but it's going onto inactive players and that is way too easy for the scum. In my experience scum is usually pretty active because they like to know when something important is said, and they won't skim. Maybe somehow someone missed Hallia's reveal, but I find it unlikely that the scum would, as that is exactly what they would be looking for.

This is what I was saying was a good point.

So she's suggesting I'm scum because the inactive players are taking heat?

 

Like Ed, who you wanted to lynch?

And if she's saying I'm scum, she's saying I didn't miss Hallia's reveal - but chose not to kill her anyway because ???.

 

You think this is a good point against me?

Yeah. That's where she lost me.