[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

Ok. So back to thinking Lizclov is town, after realizing how much attention they are getting. It is screaming LHF.

I'm suspicious of Darthe for trying to push the lynch so hard.

Oh youre sus of me? I never saw that coming, lol

Why shouldn't he be suspicious of you?

 

I forgot to include Eldrick in my question about what to expect of you as scum, seeing as he was in the last game with you.

 

And @Dice as well.

A better question is why should he be, given that most players are town and ive not anything on thread for him to sus that I can see, but thats a question for him.

 

Since youre asking me, it's because im balling out this game. Im so far from wolf darthe in terms of conviction, activity and read progress atm that its absurd to consider me atm.

 

 

He gave his reasons for sussing you. And are you trying to actually read yourself in a game? XD

 

And are you saying you didn't pursue mislynches with conviction in your last game? You must have faked it pretty well since you made it to end game and from what I understand from MrsClov you tunnelled on Eldrick a whole lot that game.

[Cuth]

 

 

@Cuth, here's the link to the game. If you can't find the post I'll look for it later

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-mafia-wins-d4/

searched "partner", didn't find anything equivalent

 

would appreciate you pulling it up later if you don't mind

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-mafia-wins-d4/page-74?do=findComment&comment=3722479 I *think* this is it, but Liz will have to clarify.

 

it hurts me, but thank you

 

makes me feel better about this

[Darthe]

 

 

Okay, I"m caught up and here are some thoughts.

Darthe: Darthe's only real contribution to the thread at this point has been pointless fluff and picking up on a joke post I made about RVS voting him and then running down the tunnel like there's a pile of gold at the end of it. He could be doing this as town (I once played in a game where he argued someone was scum because of the way they punctuated their sentences...) because he's pretty full of himself and pigheaded as town. I generally find him to be frustrating to play with for that reason. I'm also keeping in mind that Seph claims to be able to read him well, and right now I have Seph in my town column.

But I don't put it past him to do it as scum either. I read part of his last game where he was scum and he was pretty bold and in people's faces, pretty much running with the "hahaha, i can do whatever I want!" It's also very easy to make a push by just quoting things and saying "this is so wolfy" without actually explaining what it is about that post that is actually wolfy. And he ignores questions as scum or as town, but I'd like someone else to push him to put his thoughts on record so he can't just hide behind "everyone thought they were wolfy" and people can actually track what his progression of thoughts are.

I want to know more about what @Hallia and Seph in particular expect from him when he's scum.

(by the way, I'm going to continue to vehemently disagree with the mindset that town should only focus on one day at a time in a game. Thinking ahead does not mean locking in future actions, what it does mean is exploring things in real time so that you can find actual scum and/or go back the next day and challenge people if their progression sucks. It forces people to actually describe their motivations, rather than "oh well, we'll just sort it out tomorrow". I've never understood the mentality of "oh we can't look ahead from D1, which is only slightly worse than the "d1 is useless" mentality.)

You can call me biased, but I agree with MrsClov that Cuth's progression on us has seemed to be townie. And I was reading him as town when he was tunneling on us anyway. Same thing with Seph (who is still reading us as scum) and Eldrick (who MrsClov and I don't totally agree on for the record).

MrsClov reads Hallia as townie but I don't know how to read Hallia.

I'm currently reading Sooh as townie. I've only played one game with her before where she was scum and I was town (FF7). I scum read her early because of the way that she was shading me (basically just throwing out suggestions about me being scum without backing anything up) and then i thought she was townie in her responses to me in that when I challenged her she stuck to her read but seemed open and honest in the way that she responded to me. Eventually came around to realizing she was scum over N1 and we wound up lynching her on D2.

In this game, though, I'm reading her posts as being open and honest BEFORE being challenged. I don't know her scum range, but at the moment I'm reading her as town.

My current don't really trust list (aside from Darthe) are notbob, DPR, and Crusher. Notbob seems to be hedging a lot of bets. I've already called out DPR on some posts that don't read as genuine to me, including his statement about Eldrick being "wound up" (he never did answer my question on that one, just commented on Eldrick's answer I believe). And Crusher...I'm going to reread him. But he seems to be taking the easy route at the moment as well.

Tinker has done nothing to explore anything at all in the game and then pops in to place an easy vote on us. If he is who I think he is (from skype) then I believe that he's part of the whole "d1 is useless" crowd, which I find annoying but not alignment indicative, so he's someone I'd like to see pushed. There's absolutely no reason for anybody to say at this point that there's no information to work with in the thread.

 

I agree with you on darthe. He is a tough read. But I have figured him out on little things twice in a row now, and feel like I have a 3rd.

I have mixed feelings about Cuth. I liked his reason to push you. Then his Unvote confused me. And now he likes that I'm town reading you. I'm gonna have to sort him out later.

Haven't been impressed by Sooh yet. It takes a while for me to figure her out, though.

Agree on NotBob. Not sure about DPR and Crusher. I've only played a little bit with DPR and this is first game with Crusher. Still working on figuring them out, because there isn't much to work with here.

Tink probably is who you think he is. He's in the Skype chat. He's another one I don't know too well, and need more from. I know him....better....than a few others in this game, but still not terribly well. I think we've played like 2-3 games together.

Excerpt:

(by the way, I'm going to continue to vehemently disagree with the mindset that town should only focus on one day at a time in a game. Thinking ahead does not mean locking in future actions, what it does mean is exploring things in real time so that you can find actual scum and/or go back the next day and challenge people if their progression sucks. It forces people to actually describe their motivations, rather than "oh well, we'll just sort it out tomorrow". I've never understood the mentality of "oh we can't look ahead from D1, which is only slightly worse than the "d1 is useless" mentality.)

Addressing this again because you still seem to be missing why it's an issue. It's not about looking forward. It's about the significant chance for misinformation. Trying to figure out teammates is something to be done after there's a scum flip.

D1 is for figuring out single people, not links, especially when there are several people with little/no content. Your question was unreasonable at the time you asked, so it came off as scummy.

I get what you were trying to do. Do you get why it was seen as bad?

I so cannot wait for this. Post game I get to call you, cause I was right that you read me wolf every game regardless of my alignment. Just like I said, and you debated, post game last week.

[Cuth]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cuth time well prove you wrong here. Don't do that to yourself.

What happens when time proves you wrong?

It doesn't.

Oh really? You're saying that you're never wrong?

 

You forget that I've played 3 games with you before this one?

Here we have another over extension. Liz is actively trying to make me look worse because, inordinately, she doesn't see that this is amisplay.

no she isn't

 

all she says is that you have been wrong in the past, according to her existing experience

 

that is not "trying to make you look worse"

Yes, she is. Liz isnt aggressive. Town liz doesnt say the bold, she says something like "youve been wrong before on me". That post from her was leading, it was prodding. She should have been suggestive if town.

 

i fail to see how you can classify her play this game as aggressive in any way shape or form

 

but mebbe that's just me

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

Ok. So back to thinking Lizclov is town, after realizing how much attention they are getting. It is screaming LHF.

I'm suspicious of Darthe for trying to push the lynch so hard.

 

Oh youre sus of me? I never saw that coming, lol

Why shouldn't he be suspicious of you?

 

I forgot to include Eldrick in my question about what to expect of you as scum, seeing as he was in the last game with you.

 

And @Dice as well.

A better question is why should he be, given that most players are town and ive not anything on thread for him to sus that I can see, but thats a question for him.

Since youre asking me, it's because im balling out this game. Im so far from wolf darthe in terms of conviction, activity and read progress atm that its absurd to consider me atm.

 

He gave his reasons for sussing you. And are you trying to actually read yourself in a game? XD

 

And are you saying you didn't pursue mislynches with conviction in your last game? You must have faked it pretty well since you made it to end game and from what I understand from MrsClov you tunnelled on Eldrick a whole lot that game.

Trying. To. Muddle. Me.

 

Obvious, and its gonna hurt you way more than me. Im cool with it. As for reading myself, you asked the direct question that led to it, but thats a unique way to spin it so gj :-)

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cuth time well prove you wrong here. Don't do that to yourself.

 

What happens when time proves you wrong?

It doesn't.

Oh really? You're saying that you're never wrong?

 

You forget that I've played 3 games with you before this one?

Here we have another over extension. Liz is actively trying to make me look worse because, inordinately, she doesn't see that this is amisplay.

no she isn't

 

all she says is that you have been wrong in the past, according to her existing experience

 

that is not "trying to make you look worse"

Yes, she is. Liz isnt aggressive. Town liz doesnt say the bold, she says something like "youve been wrong before on me". That post from her was leading, it was prodding. She should have been suggestive if town.

i fail to see how you can classify her play this game as aggressive in any way shape or form

 

but mebbe that's just me

I hate to this route but you don't know these people do you don't know what relatively is x reasons for them. I literally just laid it out for you. Either accept the read or don't.

[Cuth]

fair enough

[Cuth]

where's cass :/

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm quite curious about Wildfire not checking in yet.

Oh are you? That seems super important, Lol.

Concerned mainly. She was pretty active early on last game and considering she was the one who asked for me to be summoned I assumed it meant she was eager to play. The fact that she hasn't even checked in yet concerns me both for her as a person and what it could be as an alignment. Until she checks in it doesn't really mean anything though. Can't read what isn't there.

Folks if you have no other reason to read Miss clove as a wolf, this would be enough. She is going out of her way to put suspicion on a player for having not checked in yet in the midst of being sussed on thread and having low activity regarding those who are around.

I disagree. What would you think she should do given her being under suspicion?

Then youre wrong. She shouldnt focus on some lutlier, she needs to be hyper present to make herself appear more open. This isnt that, it's a distraction.

 

 

Liz and I combine for 174 posts That's 2nd and 4th I believe. How is that not present? 

 

 

He uses alternate facts.  

[Cuth]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm quite curious about Wildfire not checking in yet.

Oh are you? That seems super important, Lol.

Concerned mainly. She was pretty active early on last game and considering she was the one who asked for me to be summoned I assumed it meant she was eager to play. The fact that she hasn't even checked in yet concerns me both for her as a person and what it could be as an alignment. Until she checks in it doesn't really mean anything though. Can't read what isn't there.

Folks if you have no other reason to read Miss clove as a wolf, this would be enough. She is going out of her way to put suspicion on a player for having not checked in yet in the midst of being sussed on thread and having low activity regarding those who are around.

I disagree. What would you think she should do given her being under suspicion?

Then youre wrong. She shouldnt focus on some lutlier, she needs to be hyper present to make herself appear more open. This isnt that, it's a distraction.

 

 

Liz and I combine for 174 posts That's 2nd and 4th I believe. How is that not present? 

 

 

He uses alternate facts.  

 

re:this someone said not to do this because it's mildly political

[Lizabeth]

But about you, why do you feel that anyone should have a town read on you this game? What have you done that has warranted a positive read? Mrs clov pulling out random distraction posts or doing damage control for you? The poor tone, the immediate reactiveness, the name calling, the post about needing to confer before a joke vote followed by an individual vote, or 309?

 

You tell me, when ive already got mountain on you why should I not push you? Why should I care what you think?

 

Youll quickly come to the conclusion I already know.

 

 

Did you see us saying anywhere that people shouldn't be questioning us? If you have, please share with the class.

 

And let's recap your mountain of evidence.

 

You start off by calling my joke about RVS voting you but needing to confer with MrsClov by calling it wolfy.

 

You follow up by basically quoting us multiple times and saying "wolfy" "woofin" with no other exploration.

 

I then challenge you on multiple of those posts, you hide behind "it's just wolfy" and then run away from the thread.

 

You call our response reactiveness, I say that it's not in my nature (or MrsClov's) to let shade lie. So if you're going to throw mud I'm going to challenge you to back it up. You've done nothing at all to develop your read or to explore anybody else,. So you're either being lazy or scummy.

 

When Eldrick throws a vote on you, with fully explained reasons, you act as though you expected it all along (where I don't remember you actually saying you suspected Eldrick before that) and act like he didn't give any reasons.

 

So yeah - I'm not seeing productivity there at all.

 

You've frustrated me with your play every single time I've played with you so I'm not assuming alignment based on you being one-note and overly confident. But I'm aslo not going to let it go at "darthe being darthe" and let you off the hook without actually exploring what your motivations are.

 

So yeah, you have to answer for yourself and your actions just like everyone else does. No free meals in mafia.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

Maybe one of these games you'll be town :P

Im town every game, right up to the moment I die.

 

 

Sounds like a Zander line.  

[Lizabeth]

 

 

liza, please try to avoid insulting other players in the future

 

it will make the game MUCH more enjoyable

You're right.

 

It was meant to be to be in tongue in cheek for the record (assuming you're referencing  the "you're a terrible explanation") because I don't think Darthe to actually be affected by it and he was frustrating me at the moment.

 

But in the future I'll just state that his explanations are terrible. Which they are.

They feel right. I like being right

So you're among the "facts don't matter as long as I feel it's true" crowd...

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

Darthe: Darthe's only real contribution to the thread at this point has been pointless fluff and picking up on a joke post I made about RVS voting him and then running down the tunnel like there's a pile of gold at the end of it.

Incredibly disingenuous and also very false. Ive not made 3 fluff posts this game and I have content, including a read, on almost every player who has posted.

 

What are your reads? I must have missed them. I've seen you make a bunch of snarky comments about people voting/not voting you and you throwing out "so woofy" in response to nearly every post that MrsClov and I make. I have yet to see anything that amounts to productive content.

Put in your own effort and go look. Maybe it'll gain you a credible thought on me.

 

Talk to me directly ad stop throwing shade. If what I'm saying is wrong, then prove me wrong.

 

Facts matter whether you feel they do or not.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

^lynch it first, thank me later. Im simply right, and you can follow me or you can apologize later when its proven.

Again, and I really want you to answer this question. And if you don't remember, we danced this tango the last time we played together so I'll remind you (in case you forgot) that I'm not going to let you get away with evasion or a flimsy answer.

 

What happens if you get your magic wish and MrsClov and I are lynched. We're going to flip town. What happens then?

 

And don't say "you won't flip town" because that's a nonanswer. So humour me.

Sure. I've got a bad read on notbob so I'll analyze your train, mostly ignore you but reread mrs clov, and assess from there. Prob notbob given current info

 

Good, I look forward to your conclusions.

 

Don't know why you'll ignore me though, given that I left you with lots of open questions. But I'll let that go for now.

[Darthe]

^ lol I actually think they had a fair point. They talk a lot, I guess I just dont like what they say.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

^lynch it first, thank me later. Im simply right, and you can follow me or you can apologize later when its proven.

 

lulz, now you're stealing my lines...last game together I was lynched Day 1 while identifying 2/3 of the scum team.  Nobody ever apologized, nor used my reads...you're seriously losing it. 

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

 

Cuth time well prove you wrong here. Don't do that to yourself.

What happens when time proves you wrong?

It doesn't.

Oh really? You're saying that you're never wrong?

 

You forget that I've played 3 games with you before this one?

Here we have another over extension. Liz is actively trying to make me look worse because, inordinately, she doesn't see that this is amisplay.

 

no she isn't

 

all she says is that you have been wrong in the past, according to her existing experience

 

that is not "trying to make you look worse"

 

Thank you for explaining this.

 

Frustrating as he may be, I actually think Darthe is town because of the way the way he's going about misarguing his points. I think he actually believes what he's saying, no matter how unfounded it is.

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

Darthe: Darthe's only real contribution to the thread at this point has been pointless fluff and picking up on a joke post I made about RVS voting him and then running down the tunnel like there's a pile of gold at the end of it.

 

Incredibly disingenuous and also very false. Ive not made 3 fluff posts this game and I have content, including a read, on almost every player who has posted.

 

What are your reads? I must have missed them. I've seen you make a bunch of snarky comments about people voting/not voting you and you throwing out "so woofy" in response to nearly every post that MrsClov and I make. I have yet to see anything that amounts to productive content.

Put in your own effort and go look. Maybe it'll gain you a credible thought on me.

Talk to me directly ad stop throwing shade. If what I'm saying is wrong, then prove me wrong.

 

Facts matter whether you feel they do or not.

Ok lets settle something here.

 

Do you know what throwing shade means? Do you even know what shade is? I dont think you do, because youre using it wrong.

 

Similarly, do you get how this game works? Saying that your alignment is town and thats a fact doesnt have any weight, whatsoever. None. Zilch. Nada. Do you know why?

 

The answer is that we are uninformed, those of us who actually randed town. I have no way to factually know anything about you, as it is D1, the same that I dont know whp your teammates are or where id go if you flipped x. It's impossible to know.

 

So go ahead and shut that crap down and ask some real questions or ill happily lynch you to get rid of your thusfar wolfy slot.

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cuth time well prove you wrong here. Don't do that to yourself.

 

What happens when time proves you wrong?

It doesn't.

Oh really? You're saying that you're never wrong?

 

You forget that I've played 3 games with you before this one?

Here we have another over extension. Liz is actively trying to make me look worse because, inordinately, she doesn't see that this is amisplay.

no she isn't

 

all she says is that you have been wrong in the past, according to her existing experience

 

that is not "trying to make you look worse"

Thank you for explaining this.

 

Frustrating as he may be, I actually think Darthe is town because of the way the way he's going about misarguing his points. I think he actually believes what he's saying, no matter how unfounded it is.

You didnt become the top vote getter by my points being unfounded. You may not like them, or me, but they are damn accurate and currently you're dying for it.

 

I advise changing your stance fast.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

Okay, I"m caught up and here are some thoughts.

 

Darthe: Darthe's only real contribution to the thread at this point has been pointless fluff and picking up on a joke post I made about RVS voting him and then running down the tunnel like there's a pile of gold at the end of it. He could be doing this as town (I once played in a game where he argued someone was scum because of the way they punctuated their sentences...) because he's pretty full of himself and pigheaded as town. I generally find him to be frustrating to play with for that reason. I'm also keeping in mind that Seph claims to be able to read him well, and right now I have Seph in my town column.

 

But I don't put it past him to do it as scum either. I read part of his last game where he was scum and he was pretty bold and in people's faces, pretty much running with the "hahaha, i can do whatever I want!" It's also very easy to make a push by just quoting things and saying "this is so wolfy" without actually explaining what it is about that post that is actually wolfy. And he ignores questions as scum or as town, but I'd like someone else to push him to put his thoughts on record so he can't just hide behind "everyone thought they were wolfy" and people can actually track what his progression of thoughts are.

 

I want to know more about what @Hallia and Seph in particular expect from him when he's scum.

 

(by the way, I'm going to continue to vehemently disagree with the mindset that town should only focus on one day at a time in a game. Thinking ahead does not mean locking in future actions, what it does mean is exploring things in real time so that you can find actual scum and/or go back the next day and challenge people if their progression sucks. It forces people to actually describe their motivations, rather than "oh well, we'll just sort it out tomorrow". I've never understood the mentality of "oh we can't look ahead from D1, which is only slightly worse than the "d1 is useless" mentality.)

 

You can call me biased, but I agree with MrsClov that Cuth's progression on us has seemed to be townie. And I was reading him as town when he was tunneling on us anyway. Same thing with Seph (who is still reading us as scum) and Eldrick (who MrsClov and I don't totally agree on for the record).

 

MrsClov reads Hallia as townie but I don't know how to read Hallia.

 

I'm currently reading Sooh as townie. I've only played one game with her before where she was scum and I was town (FF7). I scum read her early because of the way that she was shading me (basically just throwing out suggestions about me being scum without backing anything up) and then i thought she was townie in her responses to me in that when I challenged her she stuck to her read but seemed open and honest in the way that she responded to me. Eventually came around to realizing she was scum over N1 and we wound up lynching her on D2.

 

In this game, though, I'm reading her posts as being open and honest BEFORE being challenged. I don't know her scum range, but at the moment I'm reading her as town.

 

My current don't really trust list (aside from Darthe) are notbob, DPR, and Crusher. Notbob seems to be hedging a lot of bets. I've already called out DPR on some posts that don't read as genuine to me, including his statement about Eldrick being "wound up" (he never did answer my question on that one, just commented on Eldrick's answer I believe). And Crusher...I'm going to reread him. But he seems to be taking the easy route at the moment as well.

 

Tinker has done nothing to explore anything at all in the game and then pops in to place an easy vote on us. If he is who I think he is (from skype) then I believe that he's part of the whole "d1 is useless" crowd, which I find annoying but not alignment indicative, so he's someone I'd like to see pushed. There's absolutely no reason for anybody to say at this point that there's no information to work with in the thread.

 

 

I agree with you on darthe. He is a tough read. But I have figured him out on little things twice in a row now, and feel like I have a 3rd.

 

I have mixed feelings about Cuth. I liked his reason to push you. Then his Unvote confused me. And now he likes that I'm town reading you. I'm gonna have to sort him out later.

 

Haven't been impressed by Sooh yet. It takes a while for me to figure her out, though.

 

Agree on NotBob. Not sure about DPR and Crusher. I've only played a little bit with DPR and this is first game with Crusher. Still working on figuring them out, because there isn't much to work with here.

 

Tink probably is who you think he is. He's in the Skype chat. He's another one I don't know too well, and need more from. I know him....better....than a few others in this game, but still not terribly well. I think we've played like 2-3 games together.

 

 

Excerpt:

(by the way, I'm going to continue to vehemently disagree with the mindset that town should only focus on one day at a time in a game. Thinking ahead does not mean locking in future actions, what it does mean is exploring things in real time so that you can find actual scum and/or go back the next day and challenge people if their progression sucks. It forces people to actually describe their motivations, rather than "oh well, we'll just sort it out tomorrow". I've never understood the mentality of "oh we can't look ahead from D1, which is only slightly worse than the "d1 is useless" mentality.)

Addressing this again because you still seem to be missing why it's an issue. It's not about looking forward. It's about the significant chance for misinformation. Trying to figure out teammates is something to be done after there's a scum flip.

 

D1 is for figuring out single people, not links, especially when there are several people with little/no content. Your question was unreasonable at the time you asked, so it came off as scummy.

 

I get what you were trying to do. Do you get why it was seen as bad?

 

For the first part, I'm not seeing what your confusion is about Cuth's unvote and how it's any different from your unvote.

 

As for the part that we keep rehashing, you're missing my point that we apparently have different ways of looking at the game, and I fundamentally disagree with your assessment of waiting for scum flips to discuss alternative theories. But that's something I'm going to just agree to disagree with y'all on.

[Lizabeth]

 

@Cuth, here's the link to the game. If you can't find the post I'll look for it later

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-mafia-wins-d4/

searched "partner", didn't find anything equivalent

 

would appreciate you pulling it up later if you don't mind

 

I will. Let me catch up.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm quite curious about Wildfire not checking in yet.

Oh are you? That seems super important, Lol.

Concerned mainly. She was pretty active early on last game and considering she was the one who asked for me to be summoned I assumed it meant she was eager to play. The fact that she hasn't even checked in yet concerns me both for her as a person and what it could be as an alignment. Until she checks in it doesn't really mean anything though. Can't read what isn't there.

Folks if you have no other reason to read Miss clove as a wolf, this would be enough. She is going out of her way to put suspicion on a player for having not checked in yet in the midst of being sussed on thread and having low activity regarding those who are around.

I disagree. What would you think she should do given her being under suspicion?

Then youre wrong. She shouldnt focus on some lutlier, she needs to be hyper present to make herself appear more open. This isnt that, it's a distraction.

 

 

Liz and I combine for 174 posts That's 2nd and 4th I believe. How is that not present? 

 

 

He uses alternate facts.  

 

re:this someone said not to do this because it's mildly political

 

 

Politics.  This whole game is politics.  The terminology just suits exactly how Darthe plays.  

[Lizabeth]

 

 

@Cuth, here's the link to the game. If you can't find the post I'll look for it later

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-mafia-wins-d4/

searched "partner", didn't find anything equivalent

 

would appreciate you pulling it up later if you don't mind

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-mafia-wins-d4/page-74?do=findComment&comment=3722479 I *think* this is it, but Liz will have to clarify.

 

Thank you! Yes, that's it.

 

It's not the same question, but basically the point of it was not to get stuck arguing in circles "I'm not scum, stop calling me scum" but to get Cory to figure us out separately, whether he wound up deciding that I was scum or not. And it worked.

[Wildfire Sedai]

caught up but now have to go to bed.  see you all in the morning.....oh and please don't blow up the thread....