Have to confess that Egwene is one of my least favourite characters. She rather rubbed me up the wrong way early on and I found her behaviour generally annoying for most of the story . Not denying she had qualities of courage and determination ; just could never really overcome my distaste for aspects of her character (the habitual lying and manipulation of friends) enough to enable me to enjoy her chapters as much as others of the central cast. But as for her end : well for a real life person obviously a rough way to go out so young ! But as a fictional character you could hardly wish for a more spectacular and heroic finish so maybe glorious rather than tragic ?

We can but hope... I would like to see another attempt but accept that bringing it off satisfactorily ( I really didn't think this version did it justice : too many changes and many not for the better ; seemed a little "dumbed down" in places) is going to be a really tough task. The size and scope of the story , need for actors to commit to long contracts , cost ! are all going to be issues. But who knows ? GOT ran eight seasons even if rushed and spoiled at the end ; so something similar just might be possible... In time.

Yes in the early books Nynaeve is a bit hard to love because of the way her dogged belief that she is always right leads her to rather riding roughshod over the opinions or wishes of others : but even there it is clear enough that she always acts for what she sees as the benefit of all... Could argue that she is the least self-centred of all the main characters , and the one on whom you could always rely for support in adversity. The stubbornness and resistance to seeing others' points of view is always going to rub people up the wrong way though. She develops - albeit in fits and starts - over the later books and by the end became just about my favourite female character . Possibly because of some shared characteristics with my wife 😉

Seanchan are a weird lot all round , are they not ? Their society is based on some appalling customs - the enslavement of the damane being only one example . Look also at the way da'covale are treated ; and the cheerful expectation that members of the royal succession will constantly try to murder each other 🙂 To say nothing of the barbaric punishments handed out to opponents who fail to yield ... Yet on the other hand , once the invaded peoples accept their conquest , they allow them to go on with their normal lives unmolested and free to act as they wish (as long as it isn't rebellion) ; and don't demand they take up Seanchan ways at all. Of course they still seek to collar any potential channelers ; though since they believe marath'damane are a threat to society if let loose you can see why they think this is reasonable. (And this has some echoes on this side of the ocean too with the way Aes Sedai treat wilders - and of course the compulsory "gentling" of any unfortunate male who has the power) And as the story goes on we encounter Seanchan who are clearly both honourable and very decent people : Egeanin of course ; but also several military types we get to know through POV s and various meetings with our heroes. And Tuon is OK... Guess no society is without its flaws (even today , no ?) though some are more obviously lacking in what we would regard as appropriate. It is still not far off a medieval period...

Of course if you believe that statement of Brandon's that Lanfear actually survived by somehow messing with Perrin's perception (and therefore basically got clean away ) then I guess she has to take the prize , no ?

Oh dear I am struggling with this one . More even than I expected because the "underwhelming" Elayne chapters have given way to Egwene laying siege to Tar Valon : and have to confess these are far worse - to me at least. Bias admitted : I really don't like Egwene at all . Sure, she does some great stuff (if scarcely believable at times given she still seems like a silly teenager whenever she thinks about Gawyn) ; and we know she will eventually have an heroic scene. But her personality just rubs me up the wrong way throughout...like I say , just personal bias. Sorry 😉 But even if I loved her to bits I don't think I could easily get through all this sitting around having evasive conversations with sundry Aes Sedai , fussing about headaches and subtly hinting at Plans to take down Elaida... The one bright bit being the moment when she realises she sort of regrets not having Nicola and Areina murdered and is shocked by how she has changed. Ah well , onward - only 200 pages to go....

Ah yes...what Elayne is up to... Should have remembered. Think this is probably the most excruciating part of the whole story : not the actual succession thread but all the fussing about the Aes Sedai/Servants/Guardswomen and their reactions ; not to mention Aviendha and Birgitte nurse-maiding her through pregnancy . I mean I love those two characters but not so much their roles in this part : just overdone. Moving on slowly but finding these chapters the Ultimate Slog... I know it will get better soon end eventually... 😎

Nearly half way into Crossroads (reading much slower than you , WoTwasThat ) and not finding it quite as bad as I feared...probably because I had resolved to make this series read through a very leisurely stroll. Prologue seemed to be about introducing several new strands into the story : one could argue the necessity ; but obviously RJ wanted to fill in a lot of detail about what was happening in the land away from our regular characters...and the threads started here did actually go somewhere in later books so can't really complain about it too much. Lot of time with Perrin : a distinctly mixed blessing. He does a fair bit of interesting stuff over the series ; but boy does he waffle on in his head for pages on end - I could really do with less of his introspectives , especially fussing about this and that Aes Sedai or the scents surrounding his companions. The whole Faile Capture thing is well under way and I honestly find some of it quite readable ; but here at times RJ does seem to get bogged down in too much intricate detail. Example : pages 240/241 and nearly a whole page devoted to detailed description of How to Wash and Dry Silk Garments in the open air...OK only a page , but still... On the other hand one might say it is the way in which he paints every little detail of the scenes that makes the WOT such an immersive experience : more than many works , in this one you can actually feel you are present in this world and witnessing the action. Of course in all the various POVs up to here we are getting flashes referring to characters' awareness of Something Big happening , ie The Cleansing ; so marking where everyone is at this particular point in time. Necessary , I guess , with all the different groups scattered around the continent ; so if it does seem to be a bit of a Going nowhere fast volume , we can understand the reasons. As for Mat and Tuon I can always enjoy any time with Mat. Even in the Circus. On to chapter 10 and will see what Elayne is up to ...

Having just finished Book 9 on this re-read , I am embarking again on Crossroads of Twilight (a volume I confess hasn't remained as vivid as many in my memory) with something of a heavy heart... So probably was an unwise choice of mine to read your above comments , WoTwasThat 🙂 But I did get a laugh out of some of them. Hope I don't suffer as much as you going through this one : it is only 600 odd pages , after all ...

Yes the whole "Wheel" idea is a great one , even if some aspects are perhaps a little at odds with our science based historical reality 🙂 I do wish RJ hadn't killed off Herid Fell so early as I would also have enjoyed seeing a bit more from him. Wonder if Jordan originally intended to use him more but eventually decided he didn't have room in the story ? Which would be somewhat ironic given the amount of space given to various channelling women cat fighting and Andoran political struggles in the middle books !)

You are going a lot faster than me on this re-read , WotwasThat... My impression of this book hasn't changed all that much yet. To be honest , I don't hate the Elayne succession stuff in itself : it is the relentless fussing and fighting about between Aes Sedai/Wise Ones/Kin/Sea Folk (in all parts of the story , not just this volume) that has me glazing over : basically it is surely just filler and could be cut down drastically with no impact on the narrative. Looking forward to the cleansing : not so much to Far Madding though I may like it better this time around. We will see...

Rendering Cadsuane pointless and therefore removing her from the story completely would have been a magnificent contribution to the whole series 🙂 (OK , I know - my personal bias , just can't stand the character. Sorry............. sort of.) Moiraine & Thom did end up feeling a bit underdone but in truth I don't really have any problem with the timing of the rescue. Given all the other stuff various characters were up to I think it was necessary. Was a great episode in itself , anyway.

You are a few chapters ahead of me... Yeah it isn't that awful. My only real gripe with the Faile in Captivity thing is it just went on a bit too long. And I know I have that coming 🙄 I guess Jordan had to do something with his other main characters while working his way through Rand's battle with madness and his belief that he had to become hard as rock against his own nature. One of the drawbacks of creating a story with so many interlocking plots and multiple leading characters ( as George M has found !) Some good stuff coming with Mat as I recall - and a good finish to the book ; but I doubt it is ever going to become one of my favourites ...

All sort of makes sense. But an excruciatingly boring use of 81 pages 🙄

And the worst thing about Book 8 : Total absence of Mat !

If I have to pick favourites : Verin , Suian and Pevara. Actually didn't mind Joline either - though I really can't blame Mat for dealing with her in rather ungentlemanly fashion in Knife of Dreams 🙂

Mat and Nynaeve make me laugh often throughout the series. Talmanes good for a chuckle or two also but those two the star comics - if mostly unwittingly.

Patiently and in no hurry on this reread : into what is generally considered to be The Slog at present. Not finding it too arduous - but certainly not as "lively" as 1-6. Actually didn't mind Book 7 this time around. Not much to complain about , bar perhaps a little too much Perrin introspection early on. Oh , and the arrival of my Most Annoying Character who should have been Eaten by Trollocs (Yes , Cadsuane 😠 ) But otherwise OK...I quite enjoyed Ebou Dar (all those Feast Days !) ; and nice to spend a bit of time with Darkfriend and Chosen POVs. Plus some vigorous action sequences in the latter pages. But 8 is trying my patience a little. Far too much Egwene playing politics with Lelaine and Romanda ; or Elayne worrying about friction between Seafolk Kin and Tower women. Can't get too excited about Rand's campaign in Illian against the Seanchan either : just getting there now so maybe will be better on this reread. Will maybe comment on 9 and 10 when I get there.

Currently taking a very leisurely trip through the whole series ( having read I think three times before , and many times more for the early books) after a bit of a break from them. And yes , finding bits I had forgotten - even quite significant incidents : the fracas in the Whitecloak HQ that rather upended the chain of command took me completely by surprise as I had totally forgotten the timing and circumstances 😉 Some parts enthrall as much as ever ; some more so : and a few annoy a bit more ! But always a pleasure to go on the journey again...

So a pity WOT didn't have a similar commitment - to 8 ? But realistically that was never happening . I suppose they only have so much money to invest in a new show and if it isn't raking in the big sums it ain't going to last...

Could well be true. But I guess one telling factor in this might be that ROP could fairly easily be wrapped up in (maybe two more ?) seasons , but WOT really was never going to be viable in less than 8.

I love the books ; and it is probably fair to say I have been ...underwhelmed ? Moderately disappointed ? with what they have produced as a show - although I do feel the writing improved a lot in the third series. I certainly wasn't voting to have it cancelled : flawed or not it was still something that obviously entertained many , and I was going to continue to watch it and see how they carried this complex project to a conclusion. So I am sorry to see it gone. But to be honest I wasn't that surprised. I fear the first couple of seasons just didn't grab - or keep - enough viewers so left it vulnerable to budgetary risks. Which I suppose is on the people that made the show and didn't quite manage to do it justice. No need for hate though , or glee at its demise as it benefits no one. Will anyone else have a go at this ? Not for a while , I'm afraid. So for Rafe & co I will say at least thanks for trying , even if you never quite won me over - or , sadly , enough people overall. Guess we will still kick a lot of this around for a while anyway. But won't quite have the same intensity , will it ?

I don't altogether agree with the criticisms of the first three books around RJ being unsure how long he had to tell the full story. And was interested to see the "Six Book" contract HHMB referenced above as it seems to contradict the idea that he was writing each book as if it were his last. It is certainly true that he did finish at least the first two books with rather messy endings that could be viewed as attempts to make them promotable as stand alone volumes ; but it was obvious from the amount of foreshadowing scattered throughout that he was preparing for the long term. And I for one found these early parts of the series hugely interesting , despite the obvious similarities to the hero's journey familiar to not just LOTR but numerous other fantasy novels. His characters were mostly interesting , the world building fascinating throughout , and it had me hooked from the start. Definitely a strong sense that there was a lot more to come : and although I only started reading the series after its completion , I am sure I would have been just as determined to stick with it had I picked them up at the time of first release. Was everything perfect ? Of course not ; "untidy magic systems" is probably a fair complaint ; but I don't think the minor flaws detract to the extent that they needed editing out.

I think the same ... but am not holding my breath.

Oh and sorry to see Siuan go out early (what has happened to Leane , I wonder ?) Maybe means no Gareth Bryne either. Or just less complications for him when he arrives. Not as sad as I was to see Loial exit last week though ! ☹️