It is a very interesting question, I have to admit that I didn’t get into the books until the show was released. I grew up playing D&D and reading a lot of different genres, from Hobbit to Good Omens. So when the show was released it was very delightful, so when I discovered the show was based off books, I found used copies and read them all with in 9 months. One of my school teachers had copies of all of them and I was lucky enough to receive them, he had to downsize after his wife passed away. 

I doubt it because from what we have seen Perrin is (out of them all) the more peaceful character who doesn’t want to constantly escalate to violence. So it would make sense that he doesn’t what to harm the Aes Sedai since he doesn’t want violence unless absolutely necessary to him. 

Rand probably wasn’t thinking to clearly, he is very paranoid and thinks most things are out to get him. 

I think to answer the original poster’s questions she probably just fell to Mashadar and in doing to become very paranoid over an incredibly short amount of time. While I might just be misremembering I think al’Thor looked/ called out for her when she was lost but didn’t get a response. But either way I think she just fell to Mashadar and became very paranoid and would not try to escape since she thought everything and everyone was after her.

side note- first time I read it I got a little teary eyed thinking she was dead. 
but just my unwanted .02 cents

On 1/16/2022 at 11:17 AM, WhiteVeils said:

Like Clarity: Not introducing separate weird words for magic when you don't need them.

So, as someone who read the books because of the show and as a general interest is really long books series. I was sort of confused when first watching the show about how the taint worked. It ran through my brain as something is wrong when men channel and go insane and the taint, but why doesn’t it happen when women channel. It got cleared up eventually but that was just something that confused me. I personally think it would have been better if they did have the Saidar Saidin differences. 
 

just sort of my unwanted .02 cents.

Definitely a difficult decision, however my favourite book might be The Gathering Storm followed by a tie between Winter’s Heart and Towers of Midnight. Least favourite is probably The Eye of the World, don’t have a reason why but I always thought the other books were so much better and more interesting but I definitely still love Eye of the World. Favourite characters have got to be either Mat or Egwene. 

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

I'm almost positive in the last book(s), one of the Forsaken made a comment about how the Age of Legends was not the "Utopia" they thought it was.

That’s what kind of what I was thinking with the whole Utopian trope.

I might be missing the point but I always thought the Age of Legends was a utopian society. And the thing with most utopian societies especially in storytelling is that they aren’t really utopian something is always wrong even if that wrong this wasn’t on the surface. So while the whole idea of AOL was Service and, from what the books tell the audience, most people value service or have their lives based around service to the greater good ie. AES Sedai or AoL Aiel. And when I was reading the books I just saw the whole inequality between channellers and non Channellers to be one of the major parts of that utopian but not really idea. It definitely took a few read throughs but that is the general idea I picked up. And I also might be completely off about this. 
 

just my unwanted .02 cents

While none of us are able to predict what the show runners able to do, (unless one of you all is a doom-seer). But from what we have seen so far is the show spends a lot of time on AES Sedai or at least Moraine, which makes me think that they might use the rings or at least some sort of future seeing rings. They might have Egwene go through the Finn Ta’angral rather than the White Tower rings.

I don’t think it would hurt the plot very much if they kept the White Tower rings out of the show, it would mean more episode time and not revealing to much that Egwene would become Amyrlin. 
 

just my unwanted .02 cents 

6 hours ago, Kalessin said:

For the Great Shienarian Adjective's inspiration, you might like to consider these two poems by Australians as context:

https://www.australianculture.org/the-great-australian-adjective-w-t-goodge/

 

http://www.australianculture.org/the-austra-laise-c-j-dennis/

 

 

Thank you, that is very interesting!!

I think it will (unfortunately) get farther from the books. I just think this because they have a couple of things to explain like Moraine being banished from the Tower. Rand (I think) basically telling Moraine to let everyone else know he’s dead at the end of the season then waltzing off somewhere. Also Mat just isn’t with everyone else, seriously how are they going to deal with that since Mat was healed from the dagger in episode (6?) doesn’t need to go to the Tower to be healed. They also need to get Egwene and Nynaeve to the Tower without Moraine plopping them off there. So they have already strayed far far far away (in another galaxy or perhaps wold via portal stone) from what they have changed for the show.
Not even mentioning the whole One Power thing, which seems very odd (Egwene’s phoenix tears or linking and still being burned out), but I a lot of the plot will be the most difficult to keep at least close enough to the books. 

I hope they are able to keep a bit closer to the books either by doing subtle (or even not so subtle) changes with some stuff. Personally books 2 and 3 were what really convinced me to the read all 15. 
 

just my unwanted .02 cents. 

Might as well try this? 
 

1. My favourite episode was probably episode 3, I just love Shader Logoth and personally it was just something I found super interesting and well done. 
 

2. Favourite character has got to be that random Yellow Ajah extra in episode 6?7? when Perrin and Egwene got to the White Tower 🤪. But Nynaeve was my favourite character found her a lot less annoying? (If that is the way to put it) and she was one of my favourite character in the books. 
 

3. Favourite pieces of dialogue was either the scene with the White Cloaks in episode 2, I just thought it was a fairly good idea on how to introduce them. 
 

4. The character I loved that I didn’t expect is probably Alanna, I was pretty much indifferent about her in the books and In the show she is so interesting. 
 

5. best outfit don’t want to just repeat everyone but Rands Sweater, so comfy!!!!!

6. Best portrayal was hands down Logain for me, like how much we get of him in the first season hope they are setting that up for later, also the actor just was great at playing the character. 
 

7.  I unexpectedly laughed at the scenes in the hall when Moraine was getting exiled. Don’t know why, just did. 
 

8. Honestly the whole Taren Ferry thing was a pretty good adaptation from the books and was generally pretty good. 
 

9. Favourite cold open was Suian’s childhood, it was nice to learn more about Suian considering how huge of a character she becomes and is. 
 

10. Best moment of the BTS season 2 footage, don’t know much about it but I thought the Seanchan we pretty interesting. 
 

11. The actor I am most excited for is probably Ayoola Smart. 
 

Just my unwanted .02 cents.

10 hours ago, WheelofJuke said:

Sorry for the double post...

Also, something similar happens when he passes the White Bridge...a shadow passes through it. Whether that is some sense he has of a power-made object, or perhaps the remnants of taint from the male half used to create it, I don't know, but I'm noticing a lot more of Rand's early brushes with the power, and their aftereffects, during this reread.

That is a really interesting idea, I always thought that moment was some form of internal conflict being personified because (this is just my thought) I was thought a lot of Rands internal conflict was good vs. evil since he knows or thinks deep down that he is actually the DR in the first book and doesn’t want to accept it. So I just thought that was a way to show the Shadow of madness or fear of Rand. 
 

just my unwanted .02 cents. 🙂

I think it would probably be closer to end of November early December like the first season. I am really hoping for late June or early July. 

On 2/14/2023 at 1:56 AM, Kalessin said:

Well, we can consider Andor, with its Queens-only rule, to be a Good Queen Bess+QEII England sort of thing. Tear is equally obviously a sort of Reformation-Era Spanish Empire and Illian - Ilium if you must - is likewise an Italian city-state with Venice in mind. While Shienar with Uno and his Great Shienarian Adjective seems to be based on the Australian servicemen I have no doubt RJ was quite familiar with during his tours of duty in the Vietnam War days. (A number of US servicemen gained very favourable impressions of the Australian servicemen during that war.)

That is very interesting about the inspiration from Australian servicemen, I would never have figured it out. It definitely makes sense however. 
Also it was fairly obvious about a lot of the Westlands being Western countries especially Western European countries in history.

I am currently taking a class in Latin and recently we have been focusing on Cultural such as names and gods. Something I noticed was the original names for the Forsaken, such as Asmodean, Lanfear or Grendel have 3 names. But it seems the third name is like the Roman Cognomen which is a name after the last which is a descriptive name. While in the Age of Legends these third names are awarded for special achievements or special recognition. Another thing I have noticed is how Tuon’s full name is almost the same as the Roman Goddess of Fortune, Fortuna. The final thing I noticed was in TGH (I think) when Rand and friends went to the Cairhien dance, the clothing and hair was aristocratic France. 
 

I am intrigued to know if anyone has picked up any other historical references. Not huge historical references but small little references. 

Thank you @SinisterDeath for that useful information. I don’t know much about copyright laws but I don’t intend on sharing any actual information about the campaign except for possibly some home brew stuff. 
 

I think that addressing the fact that the magical characters might have more of an ability, but I don’t think you can start every character at a level 0. I mean you don’t have to go through the entire process for an Aes Sedai character to go to the white tower, become a novice, then an accepted then finally have that persons character be ready to start a campaign. Same with Warders, or a Windfinder. I do appreciate the thought that starting characters might end up being much to powerful. But as said before even if that character is a new AES Sedai or Asha’man then even that character knows how to do stuff, same with a warrior or a rouge. At the beginning of a campaign can do something, but just are able to improve and get better, so levels. To me it seems unpractical to have a fighter not know how to hold a sword or a channeller that can’t do the simplest weave. 
 

Also I am not including any sort of Tavern abilities, it make any character way to over powered.

Thank you @Sir_Charrid I have been planning to make channellers like Aes Sedai, Asha’man, Windfinders, Wise Ones, and Damane sorcerers for all your previously mentioned reasons. However I want to make Sul’dam Warlocks since they can learn how to channel. I am trying to figure out how to do Warders but in general I want them to have higher HP and proficiencies in at 3 types of weapons (which would be chosen by the player). 
 

I am also doing a lot of sub classes, like gleemen, Tuatha’an, Wisdoms, and Aiel Warriors in addition. 

14 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

The most important thing is that players have fun and a key thing for that is that all player characters are balanced out, with strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other so no one player becomes overpowered. It is also really important for encounter balance. 
 

I also find setting a campaign in a well known book world can be hard. I have done it several times and, from experience suggest, for WOT you set your campaign either after the last battle, or long before the books. If you set it at the same time then the players really become observers to other NPCs doing the major things of the series. 

I have done a few campaigns based on smaller fantasy series, and I do understand that it will be more entertaining for it to not be set during the WoT books. Thank you for the advice. 
 

I will probably set it after the last battle by several years. Thank you for that suggestion. I definitely don’t want it to be a poor rewash of the books followed best by beat. 

I believe it would be a smart idea to keep the power discrepancies, personally I will keep the magic system the same and the overall mythology the same. While the magical characters will have an advantage to the know magical characters and that would be something I will put in the campaign. The loose campaign I have planned out will probably go threw Far Madding several times, which would give a disadvantage to magical characters. I will be adding in the differences of Saidar and Saidin, but I will keep most of the magic the same unless it is a spell I can specifically adapt. I don’ want to make the magic system to confusing for my players, while most have been playing dnd for years and quiet a few have read the WoT books, I know that some are relatively new to dnd and have not read WoT. Which in my head means it will still be very dnd for spell casting and magic for something’s but for others is will have more WoT magic. I intend on making the characters who have magic role for how powerful they are and can be, as in WoT, and I intend on having modifications so that the lower you are the less spell slots you are allowed regardless of  class and level. 
 

A lot of this campaign will end up being smaller adventures with an over reaching plot, and much less straight up fighting than normal. Which is why currently I am trying to make plots to follow and major plot points to include. 
 

Finally for classes and sub classes, most I have done are sub classes based off of class that are already there, such as taking a Paladin and adding/taking away stuff that could change it into a White cloak, or a sub class for a Druid become a Village Wisdom by making it less powerful. I am still keeping all the classes as options but just expanding upon a list, so the players have more options to stay truer the WoT.
 

On 1/12/2023 at 5:17 AM, Stedding Tofu said:

I loved the series from the start and it was the groundwork laid in TEOTW that engaged my attention and set everything up: the prophecy of the Dragon, Rand's identity, the Aiel involvement, Aes Sedai factions, The Children of The Light, The Forsaken, the taint and the madness, the teetering nature of the Randland monarchies, the threat of the shadow and the blight.  All our main characters have their feet set on their series arcs though t's not immediately obvious where they will end up (Rand aside).

 

Like others I picked up TEOTW when it was the opener to a (then published) six book series rumoured to be intended as a ten book series so I knew I was reading an introduction to a larger story.  The only difficulty I had was the disconnect between The Prologue and the opening chapters as The Prologue seemed so isolated and I had no idea what I was reading yet and then the initial few chapters were very slow, setting a bucolic country scene in a quiet backwater, hardly edge of the seat stuff.  Of course in retrospect The Prologue gives us a lot of key information - not least that Ishamael was never bound! - and once the story sprang in to life with the Trolloc smashing down Rand's door on Winternight and then Moiraine's beautiful tale of why Emond's Field is named and the helter-skelter flight to try and find safety I was hooked.

 

It's also true that when RJ pitched his story he had no real idea how long it would be (something that came back to bite) and so the pacing and plot development in the earlier books is sometimes inconsistent.  Indeed at the time I first bought the books it was said the first three could be read as standalone stories or in any order as it was unclear when they were published whether RJ would have enough traction to write the full series and the plots of each novel, though linked, were self-contained.  TGH in particular is, on the surface, purely a story about recovering the horn of valere, but really we see Egwene Nynaeve and Elayne beginning their development into Aes Sedai, Rand struggling with his destiny before finally embracing it at the end and both the Aiel and the Seanchan are introduced.

 

TEOTW is something of a tribute to JRRT but as a JRRT fan this never bothered me.  It made the world, the stakes, the themes and the story clear in outline though the complexity and diversity that RJ unrolled necessarily came as the series developed.  A fairer comparison in scope would be to compare TEOTW to Book one of the Fellowship of The Ring rather than to TLOTR overall.  The comparisons are obvious in TEOTW: The Two Rivers is the ignorant isolated backwater of The Shire, The Emond's Fielders are The Hobbits who have never been more than two days from home, Moiraine is Gandalf, Lan the uncrowned King is very obviously Aragorn, Padan Fain is Gollum searching for "Baggins", The Fades on their black horses are the black riders/nazgul, Moiraine's speech about Emond's Field is analogous to Gandalf's exposition to Frodo in The Shadow of The Past, the flight from The Two Rivers is analogous to the Flight to The Ford, Tar Valon is initially held out as  place of safety like Rivendell; the company of eight once Nynaeve joins is comparable to the nine members of the fellowship, Shadar Logoth is equivalent to Moria/Khazad-dum and the fellowship is broken (ofc Thom does not die) though these last echo Book Two of The Fellowship rather than Book One.

 

It's best to read 1-3 as the introduction to the series: once Rand has finally embraced his destiny as The Dragon Reborn and the series commercial success guaranteed RJ could reveal the full depth and scope of the story.  If people read them as they were published they might have a different view but I was able to read (and did)  books 1 - 6 back to back.

 

So, in general Books 1 -3 are a good introduction to the series and set the hook but books 4 - 6 were the real deal for me as Rand set about trying to unite the Aiel and the kingdoms, to manage the Aes Sedai and defeat the Forsaken, leading to the extraordinary conclusion to LoC at Dumai's Wells.  I picked up ACoS fully expecting that we had moved into the end game and that Tarmon Gai'don was on the way for books 7 -10 but alas 7 -10 gave us Cadsuane to spank Rand's bottom and call him boy and largely trod water before 11 -14 delivered the ending.

 

We can't expect The Battle of The Pelennor Fields or Helm's Deep in Books 1-3: for the equivalent of those we have to wait for later.

 

 

TEOTW is told entirely form Rand's pov, the only exception being for the brief period of separation after Shadar Logoth when Nynaeve and Perrin are also povs because our characters are in three different places.  Moiraine also gets a cameo at the end to announce that Rand truly is the dragon reborn, something she has not laid on him fully as let's face it, it's a lot to handle and just being able to channel and knowing he will go mad is quite enough for the moment.

 

I would argue this tight focus is intentional - part of the TLOTR tribute as Rand is essentially Frodo for this book, on a mission to travel to The Eye in The Blight (read Mount Doom in Mordor) and win a battle against The Shadow (read destroy The One Ring).

 

But when our characters are in different places RJ uses and develops their pov voices skilfully.  Seeing Nynaeve nurturing a grudge against Moiraine from her own pov is both hilarious and exasperating, seeing Perrin wrestle with what is happening to him is, well, a bit dull but it fits his character.  Rand is also the main storyteller in TGH though Nynaeve and Egwene tell the story in The White Tower and Perrin when Rand and Loial are separated from Ingtar by portal stone.  In TDR Rand disappears almost entirely and Perrin, Egwene and Mat emerge as the storytellers, showing imo RJ always intended to use multiple characters and voices to tell his story that is not just Rand and substitute people to tell us stuff in the place he is not.

 

In essence I think RJ uses as many voices as he needs in the early books based on location but even in TGH he is open to minor characters being povs for brief periods: we see through Geofram Bornhald, Liandrin, Padan Fain, Bayle Domon, Jaret Byar, Thom Merrilin and Min's povs as needed.  As the story goes on we have too many povs and too many characters competing for pov space and it becomes a problem.  That's not unique: GRRM has a similar problem with ASOIAF (though JRRT managed to keep it confined to eight of the fellowship).

I too really enjoyed the first several books, but I have recently completed my second read through of books 1-6 and found that they were much better upon a second read through. Especially with foreshadowing. In my first read through I definitely had a problem with Rand, however I see how great the writing is and even though it feels like a pile of tropes it expands and makes the characters feel so real. I thought that books 2-3 had a much more interesting content on my first read through, however it only make the story more compelling after a read though of the entire series.

*Definitely ranting, apologizes for that.

I am a Dungeon Master and recently I have talked to some players about WoT and they have expressed interest about a DnD game loosely based on the WoT books. As we have discussed it, it wouldn’t have a ton of plot points of the books but it would be around the era of the books and contain the same concepts like the White Tower, Saidar and Saidin, White cloak, etc.
I am looking for any advice about what to include in terms of plot points. Would love to discuss!