On 4/25/2024 at 6:57 PM, Blackbyrd said:

Haven't seen it- so how about this:

 

Eye of the world- Matrim Cauthon's eye

 

Please discuss

Can you elaborate a bit?

On 4/25/2024 at 8:49 AM, Samt said:

That is interesting. It's somewhat unclear to what degree the warder bond is capable of conscious communication.  In the early stages of pregnancy, pregnancy is not necessarily something that dominates a woman's physical state of being.  While a woman might be able to intellectually "know" that she is pregnant, that doesn't necessarily mean that her entire body "feels" pregnant. 

 

Also, there is the more RJ answer that men and women don't understand each other and so a man wouldn't recognize what being pregnant feels like even if he felt it.   

All valid points. I guess my only remaining complaint, admittedly petty, is that I would at least expect Rand to notice her mood swings or something related to her condition…Elayne is frequently commenting on various changes within her POV that I was surprised didn’t register on Rands end. I agree with and appreciate all of your observations though! One last thought on the logistical side, regardless of the bond…I was surprised he didn’t hear anything from anyone about it either, not even the rumors 

I am on my second read of the series and on the last book. I had a random thought occur to me about the nature of the warder bond. I had always assumed that the bond made the individuals acutely aware of everything that the other was feeling, not just emotionally but in their physical body as well. With that in mind, it was surprising to me that Rand had no idea Elayne was pregnant until she told him. That’s all, just a thought I felt compelled to share. 

On 3/24/2024 at 8:03 AM, Samt said:

Assuming we ignore recent podcasts, it is precisely Perrin’s sense of self and home that allows him to break the compulsion and kill Lanfear.  Which is also one of the biggest reasons I dislike the Lanfear reveal.  If it’s a trick, it feels really dirty to do to Perrin. It makes his entire arc a meaningless illusion.

I’m curious, what recent podcast? I’m not current with the podcast scene 

I seem to remember that in both cases of compulsion and turning, there is an exception (although rare) that allows for the victim to resist the force projected at them. The most obvious example probably logain regarding turning, and I think maybe nyneave was able to resist compulsion somewhat. Something like the stronger ones sense of self the more they are able to resist. I wonder if that is why the shadow doesn’t simply attempt to turn Rand by force? I’m sure there are many more nuances involved but I don’t recall this tactic ever being used on Rand or for that matter, if the resources are available and most people are susceptible, why it’s not used more 

Bea Arthur from the golden girls 🤷‍♀️😂

Mat and Cadsuane…did they ever interact?

Admittedly I’m not to the end yet, but it strikes me as I reread that so many fans are opposed to BS and his writing of the final 3 books. As I said, I haven’t completed my first reread yet, but I have to say, even if fans hate me for it, I think BS is doing a fine job with the task he’s given. What causes the opposition within so many fans about BS and his writing/conclusion to the series?

On 1/2/2024 at 11:43 AM, Aan-Alone said:

You just touched on something many ancient religions/philosophies expound upon. That humankind's collective negative thoughts / energies are the source of all our problems, so to speak.

GG

Yes I am a spiritual seeker so a lot of my thoughts about WOT are me projecting that on the narrative and seeing things through that perspective. Good catch, @Aan-Alone

On 1/8/2024 at 12:00 PM, Bugglesley said:

 

Did we need any group of people talked about in the books? The books could have been written any way, but they were written this way and they were in it so I guess yes.

 

I think they get a bad rap mostly because a number of the Windfinders featured so heavily in the worst (Elayne) components of The Slog (tm).

 

Setting that side, I think they do serve positive functions in the narrative, however. They add another element of "there's people in this world who interact with our character's society but have their own stuff going on," to complement the Aiel and lay track for the Sharans. They function as useful early warning signs for the Seanchan. They, as mentioned, are pretty critical to ending the endless descriptions of characters' faces sweating so we could move on to everyone drinking spiced wine and hugging their cloaks closely around them. They give us another society's answers to "what do you do with channellers" to compare/contrast the Aiel, Seanchan, and White Tower. They are another fascinating look into possible social and gender dynamics structured around life lived almost entirely on ships. Idk... they take off their blouses when they're not in sight of land?

 

I've always liked the Sea Folk.

I love everything you point out here

My two cents on the question posed by OP is this. The characters may be frustrating and downright agonizing to read about their headspace and how they behave at times, but I don’t see any reason to make the assumption that this means they are badly written characters. I think they’re actually exquisitely written characters, because they’re so exquisitely human. 

On 12/27/2023 at 3:50 PM, Aan-Alone said:

I've only read WoT front-to-back once, 6 months ago or so. But I've been reading WoT since sometime in the early to mid 90's. I'm part of the OG crowd who would read all the prior books before the next one came out...to catch myself up. And in-between I'd visit the various internet  sites and read over the crazy, and not-so-crazy, theories everyone had. Reading from release-to-release, I've also only read the entire series once. And I took a very long break from WoT (10 years or so) after finishing AMoL the first time.

 

Suffice to say I've had much exposure and time to let ideas stew. But I never bought into Taim-andred. At least as much as I can recall I don't think I did. The more you read the series, the more you start to see, and be blown away by, all the connections RJ wove into the story. Some things jump out at you, while others you miss completely...and by you I mean me. I didn't realize the significance of Cabriana Sedai until this latest read through. And I totally missed the connection with the apple farmer altogether.

 

I think it's very difficult to pick up on all these things just from the books. Sites like Dragonmount and others, and the people who post there, are an invaluable reference and research aid. I wouldn't know half as much as I think I do about WoT without them.

Agreed with what you say about how much RJ wove into the story and I don’t think it’s possible to pick up on so much of it the first time through. Especially in my case since I devoured the series back to back so ravenously without the forced break between books that the OG crew went through and gave them time to think about things more. I am not sure if I know what the significance of Cabriana Sedai or the apple farmer is yet. Can you enlighten me?

On 12/25/2023 at 7:43 PM, Aan-Alone said:

Thank you for your reply. And a very Merry Xmas to you and yours!

 

My stance/opinion on this particular topic was/has always been that RJ would never have planned to have Demandred pretending to be Mazrim Taim. It's just too obvious a choice, although I can see how others could 'connect the dots' and arrive at this conclusion. A lot, if not all, of the pieces fit...so to speak. I thought RJ was tons more clever than this. It seems that RJ had almost everything worked out from the beginning. Hence all the early foreshadowing of events, major and minor, in the story.

 

Having Demandred follow a similar path as Rand, but with the Sharans and do mostly all of this completely off-screen [as River of Souls would suggest]...to me that makes sense and even feels right. Well, more right than having Demandred pose as Taim. Given Demandred's character and motivations I never really saw Taim-andred as 'working' within the WoT story-line. It would have been too much of a stretch for Demandred. At some point he would have snapped. Demandred's ego is too big to have it any other way.

 

Of course, sometimes it's best to hide [or be hidden] in plain site too.

 

I'm starting my next readthrough soon and will be keeping an eye out for any early foreshadowing either way. Maybe I'll see something I haven't before.

Everything you say here makes total sense and checks out. I will admit though, in my case, only in hindsight. When I was reading the first time through, I thought Taim was Demandred. I devoured the books back to back after the series was already completed so there was no waiting between books and no time for me to think past what was on the page. That’s just me though. It sounds like you’ve only read the series once as well, so let me just say that I admire your skill as a perceptive reader! Your insights come across to me like someone who has read the books more than once. 

I love that you want to name your daughter in some way derived from WOT! I hope you find something that feels right and that you will share it in the forum when you do. I liked the idea mentioned above where you might use a name as inspiration to make something unique 

I felt overall frustrated with how much Taim was able to get away with and how it seemed like Rand coulda shoulda been more engaged and aware of the goings on, compelling him to do something about it. On the other hand, I feel like Taim was very good at giving Rand just enough to let his guard down and necessarily deprioritize something on his overflowing plate. For example, he appears to turn over one of the seals from the dark one’s prison right off the bat and he plays a significant role in rescuing him at Dumai’s wells, among other things. As clear as it is to the reader that Rand should have caught on sooner or at least checked in and had more involvement with the BT, I can see how Taim managed to lure him into his complacency. 

One more thing @Aan-Alone, I just wanted to say that I have sincerely enjoyed reading every post of yours that I’ve seen and always come away with positive feelings from your insights. Plus you’re kind and considerate and thoughtful, the world (and the internet) needs more people like you 🙂

On 12/12/2023 at 1:47 PM, Aan-Alone said:

@Lightfriendsocialmistress You have my sincere apology. Your post in response to mine had me feeling bad and got me to thinking. I'm sorry if my old-man powers of recollection had you feeling that you were missing something obvious. You weren't. At all. The community struggled with this for a while before Team Jordan gave us insights. Any fault was not yours, but mine.

I humbly ask your, and the communities, forgiveness.

You are a precious gem and I humbly appreciate your considerate words. No apology necessary, I only meant to convey my admiration for readers such as yourself who pick up on the intricacies and nuances that so far have escaped me. It’s not you, it’s me 😉

I agree with you. I think that’s why I like the books…the characters are simply human and I can relate to that! I’m flawed and annoying as s**t to myself as well lol 

On 12/5/2023 at 9:12 AM, Aan-Alone said:

These things are either explained outright of heavily alluded to some books later.

Thanks for pointing that out. I am rereading the series and still miss so much of what you described as being explained outright or what is intended to be “intuitively obvious” to the perceptive reader. Despite my lack of ability to pick up on the underlying implications within the text, I absolutely love reading it and foresee myself rereading until I wake from the dream 😉

On 11/6/2023 at 4:01 PM, Stevzor said:

 

Hey Elgee thanks! I've ordered all 15 books today haha so should have them all within 3 days for delivery 🙂

 

If I end up hooked on the books I don't think I will be able to hold off moving onto the next book haha

I like your style haha and good call….im relatively new enough that I never had to wait to read on to the next book. I often wonder how the OG fans managed the wait between books. Although maybe I have some idea as a fan of ASOIAF lol. Welcome!

Something occurred to me in my reread. I’m not as familiar as the OG fans with the intricacies of everything that has happened and has already been discussed and explained, so please forgive my ignorance. Anyway, I don’t understand how nyneave was able to get the best of moggie in FOH by using the a’dam and forkroot in TAR. We have already been privy to her apparent knowledge, skill, experience and ease in the dream world, especially but not exclusively by her handling of birgitte. I would think she would have known that she could have undone the situation nyneave put her in simply by employing her knowledge of how the world of dreams works. Anyone who can help clarify this for me?

On 11/26/2023 at 10:57 AM, The Dragon of Ohio said:

Am I honestly supposed to be on the Aes Sedai’s side? Or even like them?

Nah. I don’t think so. I always got the sense that I was supposed to see them and most of the characters as I would any other person, myself included. Simply as human. Whether or not they see themselves that way is irrelevant to me, and a reason why I resonate with the series. No one, as I see it, not even the dragon reborn/savior, is above having human flaws. Which explains why they are so infuriating at times 😂 and also so relatable. That’s just my 2 cents. 

I’m working my way through the final few books of the series, my second read through, and a question occurred to me. I haven’t reread the series enough to know off hand, but is it mentioned that seanchan ogier have steddings and the same longing for them as the ones in randland? It struck me this time around when reading that ogier within the seanchan structure seem very different than what we know about their core nature in randland. The ogier we see within seanchan culture are engaged and prevalent in society, at least within the military, and come across to me as stoic soldiers. I don’t notice any portrayal of what I perceive as the distinctive, characteristic traits that seem to define the culture in my perception in randland. Patient, wise,  soft yet strong, peaceful, thoughtful and somewhat separate from human tendencies and the affairs of human society. Additionally they have a true affinity and need to be in a stedding, or at least go back for periodic reboots. Is seanchan culture so different that ogier there seem to be almost a fundamentally different species, or am I missing/forgetting something ?

Just wow. Thank you for sharing! It feels exquisitely authentic and I got the impression that it could have been seamlessly incorporated as one of the pieces we read in the books before or after the official narrative, in the introduction or the conclusion. Like how there will be excerpts of prophecy or literature, I immediately thought how well your piece would have fit into the actual books that way. 

23 hours ago, Elgee said:

I have to agree with my Heavy, there *grins*

Not so sure what Sorilea would do with Prof McGonigall 🤣

Whoa, that’s a helluva threesome! Excellent point 😂