WoTwasThat
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Posts posted by WoTwasThat
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One was a labour of love, a creative endeavour that lost its way because the author couldn't be arsed to finish the story, the other is simply content, it is a product, it is an IP hijacked for the purpose of promoting a political agenda. In this case the author's work is simply an inconvenience to expelling their warm, insipid diarrhoea written by talentless hacks.
The motivations of the two productions are entirely different and it shines through every single frame and every tortuous second you endure this absolute abomination of a show. Even at its very worst with the S8 debacle, it is still better than WOT.
WOT is another classic example of modern entertainment, we do not care what you want, we do not care whether you like our show or not, we are telling our own (terrible) "stories" and you will shut the hell up and consume. You will consume the Bobba Fett disaster as we make him a background carachter in his own show, ditto Geralt of Rivia in The Witcher, ditto Master Chief in Halo - and ad infinitum other TV shows and movies.
You are wrong, we are right, you, the audience is the problem now shut your goddamn mouths and give us money.
Dayyum…. Bringing the HEAT! But I think there’s a lot of truth here. -
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I said it in a different strand on here at some point, but I don't reckon WOT can ever match GOT in terms of twists, turns, unexpected main character deaths, moral shades of gray, good people doing dumb things, terrible people occasionally doing noble things etc that was really what made GOT so much more than just a niche fantasy and elevated it into must see viewing enjoyed by the wider public as a whole.
This is extremely well put, and precisely why GOT (well the first five seasons) was excellent TV.
ExpandThat doesn't mean [WOT] can't still improve to be top level TV - if the writers actually manage to give us characters well written enough to care about and form some kind of emotional attachment to - just that even best possible WOT will still be quite a different 'flavour' to best Possible GOT.
Sorry, but I think you’re giving Amazon, Rafe, and the writers too much credit. What did you see in Season 1 that actually gives to optimism about where this is headed?Let me put it this way: The Eye of the World was a layup. And they didn’t just miss the layup - they somehow got their foot snared in the net, pantsed themselves, and the ball ricocheted into the other goal.
They Dark Tower’d this thing. They took a great story basically made for screen adaptation and decided they could tell a way better story instead of just telling The Story.
- critchy, DojoToad and Raal Gurniss
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Thank you. And thank goodness Randland isn’t at all like the Seven Kingdoms.
Yeah… ok I guess. GOT’s “bleakness” never bothered me (well the whole killing babies sure did), because the story of the first 5 seasons was damned near perfect. But I can understand why people would want a series that’s not that grimdark. By the same token, though, WOTTV kinda went a bit too far in the opposite direction. The looks and writing are more toward the YA end of the spectrum. -
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The writers are more interested in telling their "modern" take than doing justice to the story or characters.
Yup. IMHO, WOT was at its best when focused on Rand, but the story Amazon and Rafe want to tell us is going to focus much more on the female characters, shift more of the key events to those characters, and lean into the “modern” stuff. I kinda suspect this was actually Rafe’s pitch to Amazon. Some of the readership are enjoying that. Some are not. I personally find it very disappointing.
This isn’t anything close to the Jackson’s LOTR adaptation. Or even Witcher. This is a story “inspired by” RJ’s WOT.
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That does kind of make it sound like the show not matching your personal interpretation of the series is what makes it bad to you. Which is a take, I guess?
Yup, it’s my take. And if WOTTV aligns more closely with what you enjoyed about WOT, then that’s good for you. -
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I don't blame the actors, they did the best with what they were given to work with.
Agreed. I liked nearly all of the casting decisions, and I think the actors are doing the best with what they’ve got. I’m sure that goes for the vast majority of folks involved in the production. This seems like a top-down problem from Amazon/Rafe and some of the folks who are lighting/staging/shooting the scenes.The latter can be fixed. There’s no changing the former, and look, I have to concede that this new story/framing appeals to a portion of the audience. Just not me.
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Very well written. Thank you for your thoughts.
I’d seen enough after 4 episodes to realize S1 couldn’t be salvaged. Still hoping S2 can be better, but doubt it if Rafe and writers remain the same - as far as I know, they have.
I think Rafe’s answer in this Comic Con interview last year speaks volumes about the story he wants to tell….
ExpandQ: Take us back to your origin story with this project. What your personal connection to Robert Jordan’s epic story and why was this particular project one that wanted or felt you needed to be involved in?
A: The WOT was actually something I read when I was younger with my mom. It was this book series that sort of connected us to each other especially after I came out of the closet. It was this thing that led us to each see what it’s like to be a person who’s different in the world. You know, her as a woman in a Mormon family, um, and me as this little gay kid in Utah - like we could connect over this book and the women who were inside of it who had to be themselves in this world that was very different.
That’s all well and good. The book certainly has many strong female characters, and I can understand why these characters and themes of social isolation would resonate with Rafe and other WOT readers. And if you look at WOT through that lens then Season 1 starts to make a lot more sense!BUT, if this is the story Rafe wants to tell, or the lens through which Rafe wants to tell the story, that’s not the WOT that resonated with me. My WOT centered on Rand’s hero’s journey and the complex mythology of the magic system and Ages.
So I just don’t think WOTTV is going to get better - for me - because this showrunner didn’t take away the same story from WOT that I did. Not even close.
- Raal Gurniss, Guire, WheelofJuke and 2 others
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One thing they could be doing (I hope so) is start with a clean look because the world is not touched strongly by the Dark One. As the series goes on it becomes more and more gritty, grimy, dark etc. and that can be played with as Rand affects the world and goes downhill/uphill mentally.
Maybe. They can try to dirty things up, but something tells me it’s still going to look very fake and staged and young adult unless they change out a lot of folks behind the lens. It’s tough because I cannot explain why it looks staged or how to fix it - but I can just see it. -
I haven’t popped by in several months now. Season 1 left such a bad taste in my mouth. To me, it boils down to two big problems.
First, putting the content aside, the show looks fake, staged, overproduced. Everything is too clean. The world doesn’t look real and lived in. It is distracting. It looks like a young adult production. Not being any sort of industry expert, I can’t say why this is, but I guess maybe cinematography might be to blame?
I was reminded of this while watching The Last Kingdom on Netflix last night. There are so many shows, produced for far less money, that had no issue getting a realistic look. WOT’s look is just terrible. (And the music stinks, too. Mostly just ominous tone stuff).
Second is the writing. I loved Books 1-6. And I didn’t expect those to be translated faithfully to the screen. I even liked some of the additions (Logain) and understood some of the cuts (Caemlyn). But Rafe made major thematic alterations in order to supposedly “update” the material “for modern sensibilities.” Ditching the Saidar/Saidin gender dichotomy and allowing the DR to possibly wield Saidar was just a horrifically dumb decision.
One of the great things about WOT is the gender dichotomy and the bevy of strong female characters. But Rafe and Amazon clearly decided to put a major focus on the ladies to the expense of the dudes. The men feel more like plot devices while Eg and Nyn do one staggering (and nonsensical at this stage) thing after another.
So the folks who loved WOT because of the strong female characters (as Rafe clearly did) will likely enjoy this show. But I loved WOT for the classic Rand “hero’s journey” and I really get the vibe that this isn’t the angle Rafe and Amazon are going for.
And then there is what they did to Eye of the World. They had Eight Hours to tell like 2/3rds of one book. And they failed miserably. EOtW had 4 major set pieces: Winternight, Shadar Logoth, the Ways, and the Eye. They did right by Wintersnight, completely shortchanged Shadar Logoth and the Ways, and totally BUTCHERED the journey into the Blight and the Eye. My god, that last episode just makes me shudder how horrifically terrible it was.
Rafe wants to tell a story, but it isn’t THE story. At best, this is “a different turning of the wheel” and “inspired by the Wheel of Time.”
I’ve seen enough to realize this cannot be salvaged.
- Raal Gurniss, WheelofJuke, Ryrin and 2 others
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I tried to start a new thread on this, but it wasn’t approved. When I used the report function to ask why the thread wasn’t showing up, here is the explanation I got from @JenniferL….
ExpandNot every thread is going to be approved, especially when it we already have several similar threads. Next time you have a question, please pm a moderator that’s not me and ask instead of using the report function. All you’ve done now is annoy us.
Ok. So I guess I’ll put the content here and sorry if this is the wrong place - I was trying to ask this question somewhere it wouldn’t annoy the folks who like the show….
I know some folks are still on board the Rafe Train. Happy for you. My question is for everyone else: what was your breaking point?
For me, there were warning bells before the show even aired from some of Rafe’s interviews. But I went into it with an open mind and I actually liked the first episode. I liked the actors and the scenery. At that point, I felt like “ok, they’re doing what they need to do and it’s ok so far.” Even though they were teeing up this “who is the Dragon” thing and making it gender-inclusive, I was willing to swallow that because I was assured that Rand would be revealed by the end of the season.
Epis 2 and 3 went downhill with the dialogue, and they botched Shadar Logoth, and they still weren’t discussing the saidar/saidin dichotomy, but I was still like “ok, not great, but they’re still hitting the broad strokes and eventually it’ll hit its stride.”
Things improved with Epi 4 and bringing Logain’s backstory to the foreground - the biggest change I agree with. I was also ok with Epi 5. Even though it did little to advance the plot my basic feeling was “ok, but the Steppin arc was still an interesting little side-story and they’ve still got THREE HOURS to wrap up the book. No reason to panic.”
My concerns started to ramp up a little with Episode 6. At least they were headed into the Ways be the end of the episode - still two hours left to basically do The Ways, Fal Dara, the Eye, and TG. But time was running short. And this is where Moraine’s “plan” emerged “to take the Dragon Reborn to the Dark One’s Prison” and I was like “wait, wut?” Concern definitely rising.
And then came Episode 7. For me, this is where the wheels really came off. I found myself hating virtually every scene. Not only was everything almost totally different from the book, every change was for the worse. Nynaeve in The Ways, that “which one of us is the Dragon” and “love triangle” scene that was so incredibly stupid and went for what seemed like 10 minutes, the Lan brings a girl to dinner scene, the Lan and Nynaeve hookup, the Nynaeve walk of shame, the most incredibly underwhelming “reveal” of the Dragon Reborn, and then Rand and Mo headed into the Blight alone “to face the Dark One.”
Episode 7 was definitely my “oh ____” moment for the show. I’d been holding out hope up until then, but that episode sealed the deal for me. What was yours?
- ilovezam and Sammuthegreat
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But nobody ever said they were the reasons for these changes. They were suggested for things like the poor Tarwin's Gap scenes, etc.
And the reasons for these changes have already been discussed on the fora, and some have suggested it is what you say.
Not sure what you have added.
Well, those seem to be the most common excuses given, but they really don’t address the most significant problems with the show. So that’s why I asked.- Cauthonfan4, Flamen, Raal Gurniss and 1 other
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Depending on what you consider "Big Changes" we won't know exactly without seeing first/mid draft scripts. But here are some that we can argue about.
#BecauseCovid
They lost the ability to shoot in certain locations, these include pickup shots for Fal'Dara and the entirety of the Blight(had to build their own sets). They were unable to use the original stunt team of Trollocs for episode 8 and couldn't use practical Trollocs because of it.
#BarneyJumpedShip
We know they didn't plan for him to stay behind in episode 6 so we can only assume events of episode 7 and 8 had to be shuffled around to accommodate that. Most widely assumed is that Mat would have confronted Fain and possibly have been the one Stabbed. People have then assumed that Perrins part of the story would have been to help Lan track Moiraine through the blight but this is highly speculative with nothing directly supporting it.
#OnlyHad8Hours
There is a lot that can be included here but some big ones would be;
Moving Camelyn and the Trakands to season 2, cutting the Greenman and the 2 forsaken at the eye, Condensing all of the Road Darkfriends into 1 character etc, Having a very rushed first episode in general.
There are certainly aspects to each of these arguments that are for or against them but this was all I could think of in this moment.
Right, and I agree that those are probably valid explanations for those changes. And I really didn’t have a problem with any of them, except leaving Mat behind, which was just unavoidable.
By The Big Changes, I’m referring to (on page 53)….
- The DR can be male or female, severely undercutting the central premise of the series that the DR is going to be reincarnated into a world and magic system stacked against him.
- Related to point one, the dichotomy between Saidar and Saidin and taint upon Saidin is never explained, barely alluded to, and - at best - the show plays fast and loose with all the rules appurtenant to this distinction. This (and the DR having to channel the tainted Saidin - see point 1) is what makes WOTunique, and uniquely awesome.
- Super Power Ranger Nynaeve saves the day again, and again, and again with her stupendous and completely untrained channeling ability, at the expense of other characters. She even knows how to track Mo better than her own warder (my god).
- Super Power Ranger Nynaeve banging Lan in Season 1, unmarried.
- The Dumbest Plan in History for Mo to ditch her warder and take a complete noob DR to face the DO. My god, my head still hurts thinking about how asinine this plot was.
- The entire Eye / Tarwin Gap sequence was totally different from the books, way worse, and robs Rand of his coming out moment. Instead, Rand is revealed through a montage of Machin Shin and Rand playing detective with Min (oh my head!).
- That LTT scene.... gah this is just killing me how terrible it's like it is deliberate.
I don’t think #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, or #BarneyJumpedShip explain any of these. And I think these are the sort of changes that really pissed off a lot of WOT fans - not just me.
So I think those excuses ought to be retired because they’re really beside the point. I think the correct explanation for The Big Changes was that Rafe/Amazon felt the need to adapt WOT “to appeal to a broader / modern / (and let’s be honest) more female audience.”
Now I strongly disagree with that. But that’s at least a cognizable justification. Covid, Barney, and runtime are not.
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Whether you approve of my standards is inconsequential. And which questions I answer are my business.
But I will, to the ending of your long-ignored post: I don't think anyone here is trying to get you to watch the show.
Yikes. I didn’t say you had to answer. Just ignore the question if it bothers you. -
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What you call abominations, others can live with, that's why.
Well that’s quite the standard. But anyway, I didn’t ask why some people are ok with The Big Changes. I asked how The Big Changes are explained by #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, or #BarneyJumpedShip. And still no takers.- futurehermit and Cauthonfan4
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I don't think this is a fair assessment at all. Episode 4 was well reviewed and well loved by many book-readers, myself included, even if it was completely original material, and even if Nynaeve's feat wasn't entirely lore-friendly.
Adaptations don't have to follow books exactly, but I do think it's important to honour its themes, characters, lore, etc. Having Moiraine give her "Can a cat teach a dog to climb trees, Rand?" line would have made even the most casual book readers go "oh yes she's talking about saidin!" without having to actually delve into the mechanics of the Power.
Rafe himself states that he only makes changes where necessary. I think then we can rightfully point to many of the changes and question their necessity, because I think many of them made the story worse.
- A non-binary reincarnation system reduces the consequences and fear for the Dragon Reborn.
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A vaguely non-binary One Power reduces the hard magic system of the world that is well loved.
- Moiraine now able, but unwilling to teach Rand
- Rand learns to channel by surrendering to the Power
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Removing male character's positive traits/feats in favour of uplifting women led to some of the worst scenes
- Jagar having a extremely hamfisted "girl is 100% right, stupid man refuses to listen" scene with Amalisa
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LTT having a extremely hamfisted "girl is 100% right, stupid man refuses to listen" scene with Latra
- The Breaking of the World is now a preventable catastrophe caused by male arrogance
- Tam, blademaster, bodied by one Trolloc, as we see a bunch of elderly farmswomen take one out.
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Rand's moment taken away from him leading to the actual worst scene of the season.
- 5 untrained channelers vs 20,000 Trollocs.
- Egwene Healing near-death
- "She has a tell"
- Perrin, Mat, Lan does nothing all season
- The Dragon Reborn is not developed. He doesn't get to experience transitioning from a good-natured farmer to a weapon of destruction that's doomed to go mad. In fact he just accepts it, and starts talking about LTT's memories in first person.
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Desire to keep Dragon Reborn a secret led to the major lack of development of the series' protagonists
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Led to a need for filler in a short season
- Stepin stuff, while well shot, is controversial in its necessity - also had no payoff in the season
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Had to introduce traditional IRL funeral rites for Warders
- Lan robe tearing scene
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Led to a need for filler in a short season
I fail to see how any of these changes are an improvement over the original. Different does not automatically mean bad, but we sure should call out the changes that do turn out to be bad.
Very well said.- ilovezam and Cauthonfan4
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I have to ask for a specific citation of where anybody heals balefire. Not even the DO can bring back somebody that got balefire. Ask Rahvin. Thanks for your patience.
I’m pretty sure Nynaeve can do that. Correction: Season 2 Nynaeve. “There’s a tell.” And she’ll do it while giving birth to Lan’s baby. This will happen in the Stone of Tear - aka, the Dark One’s Summer Home - just after she seizes Callandor, one of the greatest gender-neutral Sa’Angreal ever created. And the toss of her braids will be EPIC.
And there will be much rejoicing about how cleverly Rafe adapted the books to reach a broader audience. What the big deal, Rand is still the Dragon, etc.
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I keep reading the same three excuses: #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, #BarneyJumpedShip.
I don't understand how any of those excuses explain the abominations - what I call The Big Changes - of this show.....
- The DR can be male or female, severely undercutting the central premise of the series that the DR is going to be reincarnated into a world and magic system stacked against him.
- Related to point one, the dichotomy between Saidar and Saidin and taint upon Saidin is never explained, barely alluded to, and - at best - the show plays fast and loose with all the rules appurtenant to this distinction. This (and the DR having to channel the tainted Saidin - see point 1) is what makes WOT unique, and uniquely awesome.
- Super Power Ranger Nynaeve saves the day again, and again, and again with her stupendous and completely untrained channeling ability, at the expense of other characters. She even knows how to track Mo better than her own warder (my god).
- Super Power Ranger Nynaeve banging Lan in Season 1, unmarried.
- The Dumbest Plan in History for Mo to ditch her warder and take a complete noob DR to face the DO. My god, my head still hurts thinking about how asinine this plot was.
- The entire Eye / Tarwin Gap sequence was totally different from the books, way worse, and robs Rand of his coming out moment. Instead, Rand is revealed through a montage of Machin Shin and Rand playing detective with Min (oh my head!).
- That LTT scene.... gah this is just killing me how terrible it's like it is deliberate.
Seriously, this is not a rhetorical question: please explain how #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, or #BarneyJumpedShip explains any of The Big Changes. Because without an explanation, I have no idea why I or anyone else who hated these changes should hold out any hope for future seasons.
I posted this query about 6 pages back. Any takers?
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It's hard to remember back to 3 whole months ago, but no one NO ONE thought it even remotely feasible that Tarwin's Gap would be given to Amalisa. Everyone was talking about how excited they were to see Rand go ham on the trollocs.
Everyone was saying how the changes are small, necessary for adaptation, that big character moments would be respected, that the destination would be the same just with a different journey.
And yet here we are. What next? That's the question that makes me nervous.
If the writers did this to Tarwin's Gap, why should I believe they won't do the same at Falme, Dumai's Wells, the Stone of Tear, or any other of WoT's big moments?
And still people are apologizing for Rafe and making excuses for the show and the writers. Unbelievable.
This is very true. A pattern is emerging. It rhymes with wattered bife syndrome.
- Raal Gurniss and Flamen
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I keep reading the same three excuses: #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, #BarneyJumpedShip.
I don't understand how any of those excuses explain the abominations - what I call The Big Changes - of this show.....
- The DR can be male or female, severely undercutting the central premise of the series that the DR is going to be reincarnated into a world and magic system stacked against him.
- Related to point one, the dichotomy between Saidar and Saidin and taint upon Saidin is never explained, barely alluded to, and - at best - the show plays fast and loose with all the rules appurtenant to this distinction. This (and the DR having to channel the tainted Saidin - see point 1) is what makes WOT unique, and uniquely awesome.
- Super Power Ranger Nynaeve saves the day again, and again, and again with her stupendous and completely untrained channeling ability, at the expense of other characters. She even knows how to track Mo better than her own warder (my god).
- Super Power Ranger Nynaeve banging Lan in Season 1, unmarried.
- The Dumbest Plan in History for Mo to ditch her warder and take a complete noob DR to face the DO. My god, my head still hurts thinking about how asinine this plot was.
- The entire Eye / Tarwin Gap sequence was totally different from the books, way worse, and robs Rand of his coming out moment. Instead, Rand is revealed through a montage of Machin Shin and Rand playing detective with Min (oh my head!).
- That LTT scene.... gah this is just killing me how terrible it's like it is deliberate.
Seriously, this is not a rhetorical question: please explain how #BecauseCovid, #OnlyHad8Hours, or #BarneyJumpedShip explains any of The Big Changes. Because without an explanation, I have no idea why I or anyone else who hated these changes should hold out any hope for future seasons.
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I would compare WOTTV to The Dark Tower movie.
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I'm certain it's already too late. Rafe & Co. are almost finished with the 2nd season. And it's supposed to start with Moiraine dealing with being stilled.
Also, let’s see… Mat is in Tar Valon being hunted by the Reds. Rand is headed off into the Blight on a Spirit Quest. Perrin is… doing his Perrin thing. Loial is dead (oh but wait we were only supposed to think that for 72hrs before Rafe told us he isn’t really dead).Season 2 will bear about as much resemblance to TGH as Season 1 bore to EOTW. Think “inspired by.”
- DojoToad, Cauthonfan4 and Jake Sykwalker
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There is not a lot of reason to assume this. The words Saidin and Saidar have been said. Moiraince said the Sa'angreal was made by MEN channeling their power into it. There is not any evidence that women would be able to use it, otherwise why didn't Moiraine use it when defending the TR.
With all this poop around, there’s gotta be a pony somewhere!!It is inexcusable that they went eight hours without explaining a dichotomy that is like the single most fundamental rule to books. Important? Nah, maybe they’ll explain it next season. Check the bonus materials!
Really bad sign.
- 2RiversFan and DojoToad
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So For the most part I really did not like this series for quite a few reasons.
lets start with the whole "the dragon can be either a man or a woman".
if the Dragon is a female there is no
Threat of the Dragon going Mad and Destroying the world.
Tension between the Dragon and the White Tower.
the Dragon being untrained and struggling.
Then lets talk about them basically making the men all but incompetent and unlikeable.
Not only did they basically just make Rand completely bland, but Perrin spends half the season being mopey.
Then they take Mat and basically make him all dark and brooding, and then him not traveling the ways and beyond.
Not to mention what they did to one of the Jagad.
And then ofcourse they literally steal Rands thunder of him wiping out the trolloc horde and give it to the women. Seems like any time a man got a chance to have the spotlight they literally threw it away.
meanwhile Nynaeve and Egwene pretty much become the walking personification of awesomeness.
On top of that we have the Romances developing way too fast and feeling very forced to the front.
Don't even get me started with the Dragons cold open where Lews is talking about his plan where the woman says "if you do this the dark one will taint the power, you'll go crazy, the world will be wrecked, and men will be hunted". there was absolutely no way she could have known that. They literally just make Lews look incompetent to be incompetent.
Lets also talk about the inconsistency with the magic of the show.
Moiraine has to literally tear down a building to fight off some trollocs.
later on a group of trained Aes Sedai are hard pressed against a small army of humans.
final episode - Nynaeve, Egwene, and 3 others literally wipe out an entire trolloc army of thousands.
And the Cherry on top? let's talk About Siuan. no. not her and moiraines relationship (though i wasn't a fan of that small change). i'm talking about her 4th oath. You know, the one that Liandrin thought up and was basically one of the final straws to her coming down? And she didn't even use it? and Yet here we have Siuan using it.
Then there was the plethora of minor changes that just felt like change for the sake of change (Like a backwater people knowing Aes Sedai, using the power to travel through the ways instead of that being an Ogier thing).
And for the love of god Rafe literally knew he was doing this too. he literally said he knew he was making changes that book fans would hate, but that you'll always have stuff people hate. Here's my problem. if you're going to make something to cater to a group, shouldn't you cater to the group who asked for it in the first place?
Furthermore, look at Game of Thrones. the first 4 seasons or so are considered masterpieces. and what did they do? follow the source material.
Same with Harry Potter. it mostly followed the source and people loved it.
Same with LotR. mostly followed the source and people considered it great.
now look at stuff that sharply deviated. say the second half of GoT. or Dark Tower. Heck there are PLENTY Of examples of Fantasy deviating from the book and being awful. Did I expect a 100% copy? heck no. But we didn't get anything close to that.
The show wasn't a 1 out of 10 bad, but i would be hard pressed to rate it higher then a 6 on my best day.
I share your disappointment with all The Big Changes. But remember, these are explained by: #BecauseCovid #OnlyHad8Hours #BarneyJumpedShipHope that helps. :)
- RhienneAgain, fra85uk, DojoToad and 1 other
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What has GOT got that WoT's not?
in Wheel of Time TV Show
Posted · Edited by WoTwasThat
Come on now…. Hair and eye color? I watched the first few season of GOT before I picked up the books. After the reading the books I realized that the screen adaptations were remarkably faithful. You can split hairs (or hair colors) as much as you want, but I don’t think you can seriously contend that the WOTTV adaptation is even in the same universe as early GOTTV vis a vis faithfulness to the books.
Have any of the WOTTV fans picked up EOTW since Season 1 ended? I have. It’s depressing, and angering how far they missed the mark.