While there are non-book readers out there who are able to follow things and taking huge enjoyment out of the show, I do believe the show has struggled to communicate lore in an effective way quite frequently. I think they have communicated lore/viewpoints/world building within the Wheel of Time world super effectively in some areas. Tam talking about the Wheel in episode 1 was excellent, but not really built upon - my girlfriend doesn't really understand that the Lews Therin in that cold open has the same soul as Rand. Ila about the Way of the Leaf, the Whitecloaks introduction, Perrin and Elyas (finally) in S2 - these are all effective communications of people/lore unique to WoT. But channeling, male vs female channelers, the Power (do they channel the same power?), the Forsaken, the Ways, Padan Fain/the dagger/Shadar Logoth, all of these aspects I feel has not been explored or explained as effectively. Ishy is an excellent villain but the "reveal" of him not being the DO hasn't really worked. I also think they have totally confused things with regards to the Warder bond - the Steppin story I thought effectively communicated the nature of the bond, but the entire Lan arc in this season has totally muddied the waters (at least for my partner). I think sometimes the show tries to play it much too coy and cute, a nod to the books that we get excited about as readers, but is totally lost on someone without that background. I think they really should have leaned more heavily on Thom Merrilin in S1 with the boys and explaining "the world" a bit more without the source of info being Moiraine. And I think they are missing a trick so far in S2 not using Verin as another source of knowledge as a Brown (and an exciting opportunity with that character...) Anyway, I'm enjoying the show and I definitely think it's a step up for S1 overall so far, but mostly I'm sitting here thinking "it isn't quite as good as it could be".

I really don't think you can argue the Rand-as-a-lord stuff has been done anywhere near as well as they have in the books, but we are only midway through the season and I like to judge these things on the whole. Similarly with the Lan storyline, I hate it at the minute but let's see where we're at come the end of S2. I think you could make a safe argument that Moiraine's sister only took an interest in Rand at that party because of Moiraine's own interest in him rather than anything else - as she said in ep4, the eyes-and-ears network for Moiraine were in fact hers, so she would have had all the info in relation to him as an orderly and everything already. The fact her sister wanted him watched would be enough to pique her interest, surely. Totally agree with this but the strange thing with the show as a whole is some of the dialogue, in my opinion, is really excellent. But other times it can fall off a cliff and be quite cringe-inducing. I don't feel anything has matched Ila's explanation of the Way of the Leaf in S1 as yet, that was beautiful.

On the episode, I really enjoyed parts of it but I really cannot stand the Lan story at the moment. It's a bit baffling to me, I don't connect to it at all as I don't understand Moiraine's behaviour, I don't understand what has happened to her in relation to the shielding/stilling, I don't understand what has happened or not happened to the bond, none of it chimes with what I know of either character even just from S1. I know Moiraine in the books was cold and calculating but the treatment of Lan just feels way too far and illogical from her. There is too much not being communicated to the audience imo, whether that be Moiraine upset on her own, a private conversation with Alanna, Verin, Lan confiding something else to one of the other Warders about the search for the Dragon, literally anything. I wonder if we are suffering from not having the Amyrlin around as it was set up as a relationship that Moiraine opens up a lot more in. Lan is obviously hugely different from the books and I don't really mind that, but I do feel like we haven't had any indicator of him being a great Warder or protector. Literally one or two scenes in S1 which displayed how skilled a swordsman he is would have been a great contrast with him in S2 imo. But again, that's old ground I suppose. I know the creators will want this to be an arc where we see Lan grow into a great leader and warrior again, but it really feels like he has an awful long way to go for that and there is limited time. Natasha O'Keeffe is absolutely sensational and I think is doing great work with, imo, some uneven/ham fisted writing. I like the fact she can heal like that, it's a good way to try and get the horror of the Forsaken across on television. I just hope there's a realisation amongst our heroes that this is only due to a link with the DO and not because they are superhuman monsters or something. But the saa in her eyes was a really nice touch. Josha I feel is still growing into the role of Rand, and I think it's difficult for him as so much of his struggle is internal. I really hope we get flickerflickerflicker, do we know if this is confirmed to be in this season? I love Ishamael as well, a perfect villain in my opinion. And Liandrin is so much better in the show than the books. I am more than ok with this adaptation because Kate Fleetwood is a brilliant actress. We should remember that we will not see as many Forsaken in the show as the books - there is room for more "modern day" Forsaken, (though I do agree that I'm not so sure Liandrin is pure evil in this iteration - they really nearly had me that they had changed her for the show with that talk with Nynaeve at the arches). But we have much more room for this sort of character to be a more significant antagonist for longer than they ever were in the books. The addition of Anvaere as well is a plot thread I really really like. So there's plenty I'm enjoying this season, I just feel there has been a lot of wasted time up to this point and still some very significant characters suffering from lack of development. My girlfriend is a non-reader and is really really struggling to keep up with who is who at the minute.

I'll have another post on the episode overall but look, I know that S1 is done and we've all discussed it to death, and I suppose we will continue discussing it, but the very short time spent with Perrin and Elyas in this episode just made me so so sad that we had the absolutely stupid, ineffective "who is the dragon" so-called "mystery" in S1. It was a waste of everyones time, left characters behind in terms of development because they had to remain a candidate for the Dragon (Perrin, Egwene, Mat), and didn't even work as many of the non-book fans of the show that I watch reviews from had discounted those three as candidates very early on. The Perrin/Elyas scene also showed us that the creators of this show are very much capable of communicating lore from the books in a short, effective way while making changes/adapting for a visual medium. It showed that they understand what fans love from the books (Hopper! What a good boy!) and while they have made changes to Perrin's story, that they understand this fundamental part of his character and his fears around what's happening to him. Give us more of this sort of thing for the EF5 PLEASE

I do agree with this but I wonder if someone else will be the Moiraine from the books, and Moiraine will go on Siuan's journey instead for the TV show. I don't think there's another that would really have the same impact on Rand but it's a possibility.

it's nice to see the arrogance of some of those who hate the show still runs strong. Honestly, who are you to tell me what I like or don't like, what I will or won't admit? Hate the show, have your reasons for it, whatever - don't tell others that they're deluded or in denial or whatever other justification you need to come up with other than a simple "it turns out there are other people who love the books like me but find the show is doing an ok job, or even a good job actually"

Forgive me if I'm misremembering but doesn't Rand defeat Turok in TGH through a combination of basic knowledge of the forms and luck/ta'veren? I could definitely see them working this in the show based off learning forms from Errol (who I thought was Herid Fel initially!) in Cairhien and some instinctive use of the power to save himself at some point of the fight. This would drive him to seek out proper training from Lan at the beginning of S3 as he realises how close he came to dying and he can't always rely on the power (in his mind at least). I think I'd be ok with this versus trying to convince us that Rand is actually well trained enough to defeat a blademaster with some training from a war veteran who has PTSD. On the season as a whole so far, my only gripe is Elyas. He has had much too small a role so far. I would have liked some sort of campfire scene where Perrin approaches him out of curiosity/instinct and they have a scene together. I'm really hoping we get some significant time now with the two of them having escaped the Seanchan. I liked Ishy saying "the more wolf you are, the more mine you are" or something to that effect. Perrin desperately missed Elyas in S1 and so far it's more of the same for me in S2.

Really excellent episode and I think the show finally had material good enough within an episode to allow nitpicks to be waved away or forgotten. I was on the edge of my seat along with my partner right up to the end. I can totally see the criticisms regarding the tests not really being Aes Sedai tests in the show (as in, there's no choice to be made between Aes Sedai and the world Nynaeve was in mostly), but while I was in the episode I was really invested in it My partner (non-book reader) was completely hooked and was really really annoyed there wasn't a 4th episode available immediately afterwards.

I think the fact they did not merge Machin Shin with Mashadar tells us that they are still defining them as two separate evils and hopefully this means the overall thrust of the future plot points remains the same. How they get there may end up looking very different than the books. I think we have to remember that TV just doesn't have the same time, scope or ability to delve into lore and mechanics that the books can.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned - when Verin confronts Moiraine about the Dragon, she doesn't say "one of the group" or "one of the Two Rivers folk" that Moiraine brought with her to Tar Valon, she specifically says "boys" doesn't she? I'm wondering if that's a confirmation that the Dragon could only ever have been a man. That the Aes Sedai in general in the TV show are severely lacking in knowledge and understanding of the prophecies and that Verin will be absolutely key in the series, perhaps even more so than in the books, in terms of acting as a source of knowledge and: Or I could be reading too much into one line 😅

I've seen plenty of CW shows and yes neither of those trailers resemble the WoT one really, but I just meant the tone from those moments in the trailer with the vocals felt like something I'd see in Riverdale. Felt more tacky to me than what I feel the tone of WoT is in general and to be honest it was a bit jarring with what we're seeing in the trailer itself to me. Things are darker and getting more serious this season and all I hear is what (imo) is really cheesy OTT music as people look serious and sad. While Selene is laying her head on Rand's shoulder and they're both looking serious, with that music all I could think was "Are they in One Tree Hill?" It didn't work for me at all, but I guess it doesn't really matter it won't impact my enjoyment of the season at all so long as that music is limited to the trailers 😅

Ha sorry I didn't see this thread but gave my thoughts on it in the trailer reaction thread. Guire sums it up well too, I find if it's too "in your face" it really takes away from what we're watching and is distracting. I barely registered much on my first watch of the trailer because I was just thinking about the music the whole time.

To each their own and all that but if I hear modern unoriginal (as in, not written for the show/movie) music over a trailer or scene it takes me completely out of it when it comes to fantasy or period works to be honest. Especially when it doesn't fit with the overall tone (for me). Imo that trailer's tone was a little cheapened by that music and especially the vocals, points which are probably supposed to be crescendos to the trailer come off as CW teen drama moments but it's all subjective I guess I'm still hyped for the show don't get me wrong I just really really didn't like that music choice lol

A bad song can really take you out of a trailer huh I think it's a decent trailer but really serves to highlight how many spinning plates they have going on storywise