honestly, if we weren't going to get the Ingtar-as-DF reveal, I would have preferred for them not to spend any time on him this season at all. I realise that isn't a huge amount of time anyway, but without his mini-arc, what was the point in having him around? In fact, this will likely be quite controversial, but considering how poorly I felt the entire "hunt" was done, why bother with the Horn of Valere at all?

I think we may just not agree on this but I really don't think this would help all that much. Because I think they have managed to explain certain elements of lore/world building quite well, so to my mind the inability to explain other parts of the Wheel of Time comes down to execution, poor writing and maybe exec/storyboard decisions? Something I thought was explained beautifully in S1 was the Way of the Leaf. They didn't need a huge amount of time for it, with one scene in particular very well written (Ila explaining it to Perrin). I think they have explained ji-e-toh well enough so far, with the limited screen time of the Aiel in S2. Finally having Elyas in S2 we got one scene explaining the wolves/how they communicate (to a degree). Effectively done in limited time. So if they can manage that, why do they mess up other key elements of lore? Sometimes it's poor writing and sometimes I wonder whether it's purposeful obfuscation

Something I think we need in S3 is more Tinkers, and Aiel interaction with them. I don't know how well Rhuidean will work if we don't have some context for how those cultures interact in the modern day.

I actually agree with you in that is what Rafe will be told, but if they make the decision that "knocking it out of the park" means "squeeze as much into 8 episodes as possible", we're doomed. None of it will land, or some of it will, but not like it should.

This point about the writers' knowledge of the books came up in S1. I'm more concerned that the quality of writing has been so up and down, not that there are gaps/changes/inconsistencies from book lore. Consistent quality from the scripts would render those changes pretty irrelevant imo.

Much like the entire show, it was an uneven, inconsistent episode. Good parts are very good, poor parts are quite corny, weird pacing and parts that you feel are supposed to land as big moments but just don't. Nynaeve really has done absolutely nothing since the Arches, which was an amazing episode. They learned nothing with capturing the sul'dam. She can't get over her block, which is good because she shouldn't get another wow moment until she is able to control it, but really she did nothing else. Even Elayne saying use her Wisdom knowledge fell totally flat. Mat did nothing for the entire season practically but gets a cool moment with the horn. They caught me with the Ishy illusion, well played there. Mat I think will be better next season, but they really could have done a better job in getting him to this point. I guess Padan Fain will be on a mad hunt for him/the dagger now. Perrin, they are very slowly getting there with him. I like the change of him outright revenge murdering Bornhald. It leans into the greys they've done so far, is somebody outright bad or good etc., Perrin has done a wrong thing, against a man shown as a "good" Whitecloak (so to speak), and Dain has every right to go on a revenge mission himself. That's good stuff imo. Hopper 💔 See you in the dream, friend. The Aiel... ehh... I like the actors for those characters but honestly, get a director in that knows how to shoot action scenes, because as things stand they're just apparently good at fighting but the cuts are so bad we barely see it. The Caracarn bit was bad too, did not like that at all. Egwene has been done very well up to this point, episode 6 was really a game changer for her and I think it gives me hope that they can get characters on track without much time. But also feeds back into an annoyance at wasted time, limited time, etc. I think it's all coming back to being spread too thin with too many plot threads and not doing the majority of them justice. But I do like the EF5 being together at the end here, I don't think it was Egwene stealing any big moment, more her trying to protect Rand and in my opinion Ishy toying with her, trying to make Rand more desperate. I have a real annoyance with Moiraine and Lan this season. Their entire plot was really drawn out and frankly, boring, and Lan's behaviour in particular throughout it didn't feel consistent with him as a character. Moiraine's family element I liked, to a degree. Now they're reunited, and they fall for the simplest of Forsaken tricks, but why was the editorial decision made to just have Moiraine and Lan on a beach far from Falme at all? It was so... weird. Even if that is the decision, why not get them closer to the action by the time the actual ending happens? Why doesn't Lan at least get Ingtar's moment of holding a choke point and make it more badass then random ass solders running at them on a wide open beach? Why were the soldiers over there? The entire sequence I'm just thinking... wtf? This is boring and corny and just... what? Goes for Moiraine's big show of power too, similar to the end of S1 at Tarwin's Gap, I'm sat there thinking, really, that's the "big moment" for one of our heroes? Fell so flat to me. I would like to echo everyones thoughts on the Forsaken. Please bring back Fares Fares. I like the idea of Ishy being happy with death and being brought back by the DO, and he changes as a result, extremely bitter about it all rather than philosophical, becomes more mad, and more determined than ever to turn Rand to break the Wheel. Lanfear, what an actress, great stuff with her overall, sets her up brilliantly for the rest of the story. And Moghedien... wow, I mean how you end a season really goes a long way to maintaining buzz/excitement for the following season, and they absolutely nailed that. The actress was brilliant, I love this Moggy, cannot wait to see what happens now. And now we get on to Rand... I can't remember what thread I saw it in on this forum but somebody made a fantastic point - the small details really elevate a show from decent/good entertainment to a truly great adaptation and show. And Rand is where I think these things have not worked at all so far. This goes all the way back to S1 but I have a huge issue with Tam's sword burning up in this finale. More for the characterisation of Rand as a whole. We have barely seen Rand struggle at all with who he is, with Tam as his father, with where he comes from. There are small moments that we could be given throughout the season, maintaining the choices they've made (which I don't agree with overall), to give Rand more characterisation and make the audience more empathetic to him. I think he's been a bit of an empty vessel of a character so far, in all honesty he reminds me of Jon Snow in Game of Thrones. We are being told that he is important, we being told we should care about him, but honestly can anyone really say in the 16 episodes so far that we do? Who is this Rand? I don't recognise him at all - the only times I have are in S1 when he defended Mat from the negative comments of the other EFers, and this season when he said "I will never join him, in a thousand lives I never have, I'm sure of that" - that is a great line and that FEELS like Rand, but feels like Rand from the books. This Rand? I'm not so sure, the guy who murders an orderly and seemingly shows little remorse, the man who entices a Forsaken to rescue him, sees the destruction of the city and seemingly doesn't put 2+2 together? And again, show no remorse for that? This is a long rant, and to be clear I am enjoying the show, but if S3 doesn't give us some actual character work for Rand I think I'll be out. I'm not even talking about "big moments" I couldn't give a damn about them moving around big power moments to avoid power creep etc., that's all fine to me. But what is it about this guy, this Dragon, that I should care about? At the minute, not much.

Well I must admit I was incredibly disappointed by this episode, not quite S1 finale levels but it just felt so underwhelming considering the iconic moments from the books we were supposed to be getting. Gitara - fell so flat, the actress was bad in the scene imo, the dialogue was terrible, Siuan and Moiraine's reactions were bad, it just didn't give any of the gravitas or importance of the Dragon being born that it should have. I didn't mind showing Moiraine and Siuan's relationship before the Foretelling at all, in fact I thought it was a nice addition to their backstory, but Gitara was so so poor Flickerflicker - is that going to be our only bit of it? I will be so disappointed if we have no other version of it to be honest, as cool as it was to see some of Mat's foreshadowing Lan and Rand - so brief, nowhere near what I hoped, Siuan and Rand - I actually don't mind Siuan's turn on him but my biggest annoyance was that Rand never felt like he worried her, even if she kept up a facade for him. I much preferred the book version where Rand, every bit as green as he is in the show (if not moreso), showed some more steel/ability to deal with the Amyrlin. And in the book wasn't the room filled with other Aes Sedai? Here he is facing one woman - yes the most powerful woman in the world, but still just one AS. How is he so easily shielded when he was holding the Source btw, wasn't it difficult to shield anyone once they were holding the Source in the books? I am relieved the stilling/shielded stuff is over with, but once more it just feels like something they did not handle well as a mystery/plot point. Same with the entirety of the Dragon "mystery" in S1, everyone is just relieved it's finally done rather than being like "oh that was good". Like the show was trying to tell us constantly that this was an important plot point to figure out but it never really grabbed me - and I should have been more engaged with the S2 one because I didn't actually know where they were going with it. But it just felt... boring? I don't know. Thoroughly enjoyed Anvaere and Barthanes, my partner shouted at the TV whenever Liandrin said "I'm not here to see her" hahaha, the absolute best thing the TV show has done are the Darkfriend reveals imo, it's caught my partner every time! But unlike many criticisms, I don't think the show has sacrificed anything to give the Shadow better characterisation, I just think they have done a really bad job with some of our main heroes when they've tried to give them characterisation. Lan and Rand are the biggest disappointments to me so far. There has been very little in Rand to make me root for him in the TV show. Similarly with Lan, he is so different from the books, I liked the new direction in S1 but honestly the entire Moiraine shielded/stilling plot completely hamstrung him. If they insisted on their split this early, I would have preferred if he went to Rand early to try and guide him against Moiraine's orders or something. There hasn't been enough of Perrin and Mat though I feel they are on the right track with both of the characters now in S2. Nynaeve has been totally sidelined since the Arches, let's be honest. Egwene was nowhere until episode 6 which was sensational imo. I don't buy that the sul'dam would just walk away after a damane says they will kill them. There should have been a punishment for that sentiment, maybe they felt ep6 did enough to show the brutality but just in the world I don't buy that she gets away with saying that. Disappointed we have had so little of Verin. And Ingtar's final moments is one of my favourite parts of the entire series, I know it will be nowhere near as impactful now. Also Ihvon following Tomas didn't seem to go anywhere as they were just immediately on the same side at the end of the episode? Rand doesn't feel any remorse for having Lanfear go on a murder spree to free him? Things I liked in the episode: - Aviendha repaying her toh - thank god we are not getting spankings - Mat with the best line of the season in S2 as well "Murder thing or sex thing?". I liked his hallucinations though as mentioned I'll be severely disappointed if that is the only version of flicker we ever get. - Anvaere and Barthanes as mentioned - surely Liandrin's cover is now blown? - Ishy and Lanfear are excellent villains and at this point, I am rooting for them haha I think that was pretty much it, that's all that stuck in my memory as positives from the episode anyway.

This reddit post has all the answers btw from both Rafe and Sarah

it doesn't surprise me that 206 is his favourite as he's on record that Egwene is his favourite character from the books, and she stole the show in 206. I'm hopeful that we'll be over the moon with 207 if what I think is coming happens. He also mentioned Mat getting a moment in 208 that made him really happy which I'm looking forward to

I would argue that every bit of art if political to some degree, some just seem unwilling to engage with it on that level (which is fine as well, sometimes people just want to enjoy art as it is without engaging in that). What I find quite boring about most of the "discourse" today (bleh) is that none of these points are interesting. Rafe has a very particular world view, so what? Is the show working within the parameters that the writers/creators have set? Are their choices for adaptation working in bringing WoT to the screen? If not, why not? That's the interesting bit to me. I may be stepping on some toes or opening a can of worms here but as an example of this sort of thing, I was honestly super interested in the idea of a female Dragon Reborn because I thought it could link into a transgender channeller. I never believed that Rand wouldn't be the Dragon (because Rafe kept telling us that all book readers know who the Dragon is), but the idea that a woman could be, that was interesting. What would happen to a person born a woman, who could channel, but they are actually a trans man? Do they become blocked from the Source once they transition, or can they suddenly access saidin? Do they go mad? Could they be the Dragon Reborn after transitioning? And also the reverse, if someone born a man transitions, can they now access saidar? Sure, I am sympathetic to the trans community and a supporter of their rights etc., but that's not why I was interested in that idea, it was more about those sorts of questions. And I don't think it's a terrible shame on the world RJ created to introduce a character like that or ask those sorts of questions within the parameters of his world (as best we can). In today's climate online and politically, it would probably be a disaster for the show (I'm also not sure if the writers' could really pull it off - but maybe I'm being harsh), but that saddens me, that even an attempt at introducing something like that would be seen as some sort of extremely woke or political move, rather than just an artistic choice in telling a wider story.

Does anyone else feel that we may finally see the LTT / Ishy prologue as a cold open to episode 8, and that will act as a mirror to Rand defeating Ishy at Falme by pulling too much of the Power, only for Mat to save him by stabbing him (fulfilling Min's vision)? Really this idea has been triggered by Logain warning Rand about taking on too much of it in the last episode. Other alternative for Min's vision is 1) Ishy tricks or 2) flickerflicker

probably my biggest frustrations with what I would call the "loudest" criticisms. There are plenty of very valid criticisms coming from a different place to me, and I really enjoy getting into what is working and what isn't working in the show and why. But my instinct is to dismiss anyone rambling about men being demeaned and saying things like "Rafe of Time"

Indeed, but imo this goes back to the stupid teaser at the end of S1 of the Seanchan. A better teaser would have been to use Maigan being captured. Shows the Seanchan being able to capture Aes Sedai, gets everyone interested about who the hell they are, and we see the Blue Sitter while she was fresh (ish) in our minds from her chat with Moiraine in S1. And makes the call back in S2 a little bit easier. It's another example of the small missteps or missed opportunities in the show which make it just miss the mark for me quite a bit.