https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/

4 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

I really don't understand that mindset, that as long as they hit certain plot points the why and how of it doesn't matter at all?  So if Rand is wandering about in the Aile Waste early next season, and then some random character says "hey, you should go to the Stone of Tear" that would be acceptable?   Hey, if that works for you I'm happy for you.  It's just that they thousands of little details in the books are what made them such fun reads.   

There's a trend towards blanket "they changed the story!" statements to which "they hit the same story beats" is a proportionate response.

I tend to use the term story in a rather specific way.  Story is the events as they unfold in time.  Plot is the logical relationships between those events.  

There are certainly very interesting conversations to be had about the differences between how the books did things and how the show does things but that requires a degree of engagement and understanding of what the show decided to do.

An example, might be.   Rand and Min had a private conversation in Baerlon in the books.  The story change in the show is they had that conversation in Fal Dara.  Does that introduce plot complications?  Does the change in time introduce story complications?  I'd say the answer to both is no.   So, the effect of that change is rather small.  

1 minute ago, Apsalar said:

Uh.... what the .... was this episode? Extremely weird. I mean I had some hope before, having really enjoyed aspects of the show. I understand adaptation to a new medium means you have to make changes. However, most of the changes made - new story priorities, and focusing on certain charachters over others etc. - have mostly been questionable. Where is the core story in all of this? Do the showrunners even know? This is pretty much beyond words at this point, Sad to say I wont be watching the next season. 

What core story changed in outcome?

Rand went to the eye.  There was a battle at Fal Dara.   The horn was found and lost.

The two biggest changes to me is Rand decided to go off on his (but can be brought back to Fal Dara pretty easily) and Mat is currently in Tar Valon (because the actor left the show).

23 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

You’re right that he didn’t get it “yet” but this was the season finale!  I’m sure it is coming but structurally, the season needed to hit the right points for the SEASON climax and this as a massively missed story point in terms of a season arc.

I actually disagree. ?

I think they intentionally went with more setup in this episode than closing out of season one elements.

Think of a trilogy structure.  You can have a big victory closing out the first installment (like Star Wars - A New Hope), with a set back ending the second (like Empire Strikes Back), and then go into the final victory of Return of the Jedi.   That's a High, Low, High structure.  But, you can also do a Low, Medium (Falme), High (Stone) structure.   I think that is where they are going with it because it fits better with adapting all the books rather then just doing it book-by-book.

24 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

It could somewhat work for me if only the Lord of Fal Dara knows of it, and it is strictly believe that only the DR can use it. Which seems to be what Uno said (or maybe it was the other guy not sure). Still a bit meh.

I definitely think that this was going to be Mat's scene in the finale but given his absence they had to cut and move things around a bit.

I am really curious how they are going to fit Mat, Fain, and the dagger back in.  We obviously saw Mat going back to Tar Valon so we at least know where he is supposed to be.  But, where do they move him next?

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I don't mind the peaceful city at all. It's the way LTT and LPD are acting that annoys me.

I didn't quite like it either.   There was no sense of desperation or even need.  It was a cordial chat.

12 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

And to non book readers...what is the horn of valere? there was some exposition, but just like everything in this show it falls flat. Such a massive reveal (for us book fans) but for my wife, it was like.... what?

Perhaps, that is the reaction they were going for.   There's the whole time between seasons for the people to wonder about that.

18 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

It didn’t look they were including the War of Power. So that means no Lanfear accidentally releasing the Dark One either. 

I saw comments like this on twitter too.   Mostly, they centered around how peaceful the AoL city seemed.  But, even in Rand's wayback machine visions, life seemed to continue on as normal for a lot of people in the visions.

Personally, I think that we may see a lot more AoL stuff in season two.  I don't have a lot to base it on but it might make sense to make LTT a character that does more then just yell and scream in Rand's head.  So, maybe they do a whole AoL story arc for him. 

1 minute ago, TheMountain said:

What does that say about Nynaeve and Egwene then?

They did very little in this episode.  Egwene's channeling was barely a trickle.  And, Nyneave is still presumably blocked.

10 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Absolutely.  Rand needed a moment that put all other previous use of the OP to shame.  He didn’t get it.

Didn't get it "yet"

It doesn't take too much thought to come up with ways they can still give him those moments in the future especially when you have 3 endings to books that are all similar.

10 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

 his moment is given to the women in spectacular visual fashion and Rand gets a flash of bright light and TELLS Moiraine “I just destroyed the Dark One” as if that is some giant climatic cinematic moment.

You kind of lose me here.  The "spectacular visual fashion" ends with the death of 60% of the women involved.  (80% if you add in whatever happened with Nyn).   As well as the majority of male warriors.  At best it is a pyrrchic victory.

If anything the show decided to go with ending season 1 on a loss or at best a draw.  From a story structure standpoint that make a lot of sense because it gives the mains room to grow for the next 2 or 3 seasons.   And, Rand thinks he defeated the dark one at the beginning of book 2 anyway .... so that isn't a change.

Pretty sure from the context, most of the big stuff that drive the action of books 2 and 3 are still in place for the coming seasons.

Just now, Sabio said:

I noticed the Seanchean channelers didn't seem to be collared and chained now.  Not a ground breaking change but something I noticed. Maybe the giant pacifier controls them or the gold breast plate.  I am a little confused about what causing a giant tidal wave on what appeared to be a largely uninhabited beach was suppose to accomplish. I think instead of just a little girl the scene should of been from the POV of the people in Falme seeing this come in at them.

Perhaps, they didn't want the obvious S&M connotations.

8 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

I am okay with changing how Rand battles Ishy. The end of the book doesn’t really match much of what gets established later. You can tell Jordan rethought some things as he was working. 

One of the challenges of giving Rand a big power moment in episode 8 is how it can make him seem over powered too early.   There are a few interesting ways they could have done it though.  But, books 1, 2, and 3 all have similar endings, so there is still time to give him that moment.  

36 minutes ago, Dreamwalker said:

Predictions

For Rand, I'm wondering if he's heading for the Waste. They can have the Lanfear stuff on a solo journey, and just put Callandoor in Rhuidean? Egwene has to get to learn from the Aiel though so maybe we can't speed up quite that much. Alternatively, will he hit up Caemlyn and meet Elayne, then Stone of Tear for Callandoor. Have the Seanchan be landing at Tear, BAM you have books 2 and 3 combined in 1 season.

Going to the Waste is definitely a possibility.  Ishy talks about Rand's father during their confrontation.  There's a practice in writing where you introduce something like that in every scene and use it drive the next action.   Rand deciding to find out about his parents would be a logical next step in that direction.

He's basically in the same position at the end of the episode that he is in at the beginning of TDR.  So, there are a few different things they can have him do.

I don't think that Caemlyn will be a thing though.  If you're going to have a Rand/Elayne meeting it would most likely happen in Tar Valon (unlikely) or in the Stone of Tear (most likely).  Mostly I say this for budget/production cost reasons.   We're getting Elayne in season 2 but I think that she will be at the Tower and primarily interacting with Egwene and Nyneave at her introduction.

5 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Even 5 linked women shouldn't be able to take out 10000 trollocs.  Why not send them to the fortress and problem would have been solved.  Also Lan was pointless, he did nothing that episode.  Whoa he went to the Eye alone and accomplished nothing for the entire episode.

Yet, just a few episodes ago a story was told about a woman who did the same basic thing while ending up just as burned out.

I found Tarwin's Gap to be meh overall and I was looking forward to it but they laid the foundation for the channeling of linked women in the story of manetheren.  

58 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

I suspect this really traumatic experience channeling might be the source of Nynaeve’s block next season. Not that she’d admit it. 

I wonder if she wasn't blocked already given that she could no longer listen to the wind.

1 hour ago, JenniferL said:

Yeah, loved the cold open and all the Old Tongue dialogue. Ishy was fantastic and I loved that his weapon was temptation not a One Power smack down. And Rand rejected his “perfect” world because he knew that’s not what Egwene wanted. 
 

Didn’t like Amalisa going super saiyan like that. I would not give a half trained channeler like her control of a circle. That’s what happens when you don’t know what you are doing! 

I think they were going for a mini-manetheren thing there.   I found it rather meh.

1 hour ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Well for the biggest things:

 

I don't think Moiraine is stilled just shielded from the power with the shield tied off. There was clearly a shield going inside her and Ishamael's hand movement made me think he was tying off a knot.

Yes. I think you are correct.

1 hour ago, MasterAblar said:

They're 100% baiting with the Loial death right? I think Hammad is filming for season 2 anyway, and they didn't show him actually die just get stabbed. Think Uno lives as well.

Yes.   Although, I think that was supposed to happen to Mat originally but since he was not available, they had to pick someone to take the wound.

1 hour ago, MasterAblar said:

There's a lot of changes from the book but that was rather expected all things considered. Ishamael was fantastic in my opinion. LTT not so much. I don't get the switch in roles between him and Latra Posae Decume. It doesn't matter much I just feels like it doesn't give LTT the stature he deserved.

I think that this was to tie into Moiraine's "arrogance" line from episode one.  And it is the kind of thing that can be used to show the unreliability of the Aes Sedai or lay the conceptual groundwork for how everything ends.

3 minutes ago, Arthellion said:

 

This is a false dilemma.

 

You absolutely can do both.

 

Indeed.  Just look at all the book fans who are enjoying the show that Rafe also referenced in his Q&A answer.

The audience reaction to any pop culture artifact will always have a range of responses betweehn the positive and the negative.  Rafe's comments largely reflect that.   There are some book fans that love the show, some book fans that hate the show, and some that have mixed reactions.   That is to be expected.

Take the 1 star reveiws on IMDB.  They cluster around the 10% level.  Is there a lot of growth in targeting that 10% or the other 90%?

5 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

I am genuinely happy that you and others are enjoying it.  I knew going in there would be changes.  That there would have to be changes.   But this kind of dismissiveness of those who love the books who are so disappointed in the "adaptation" that they will (or already have) stopped watching isn't vey helpful. 

It is me being realistic.  The show is designed to appeal to the wider public not to specific subsets of fans.  That is just the reality of pop culture.

Just now, Wraith235 said:

and yet Rafe acknowledges they were going to LOOSE hardcore book fans because its too different .... his words not mine 

Yes.   So?

1 hour ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

I heard a hot take on the Dusty Wheel last night I thought was interesting...

 

What if they have Perrin be Eggy's Warder & cut Gawyn? 

 

I think that it would be more likely they cut Egwene having a warder than making Perrin one.

Gawyn could still appear in a more minor role.

16 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Birth mom killed Companions as a warm up, father basically the most badass Aiel in living memory, and adoptive father a blademaster and pretty much the coolest dad you could have. Kari must have been a retired Amyrlin or something.

Queue the old school theory that Kari was an Aes Sedai and Tam was her warder.  

?

31 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I understand it might be hard if they ever do get to the Last battle trying to show 4 or 5 sperate people doing their own thing at the last battle.  But the show clearly has been saying the Dragon must be the one to face the DO.  I think they can show each group is important. Mat and Egwene fighting the army. Perin after 14 books still trying to master his dream world abilites, and Rand vs the DO. 

It might be useful to think of how the last battle conceptually played out in AMOL when thinking about how they might end season 1.  

18 minutes ago, Sabio said:

If it's something they have already shown than my guess it's either Lan and Nyn going to dinner or Lan and Nyn doing the dirty.  Since those two seem to be the biggest changes so far.

I suspect this is a not yet seen scene from the books.

Perhaps, the "I will hate the man you choose" speech.

13 hours ago, Bang bang said:

For instance, do you feel that hbo did got justice with the show it presented. Did it Garner a multitude of new fans who may not like fantasy? I'd say it did. 

Perhaps, one of the biggest differences between GOT and WOT is the writers for GOT pretty clearly removed as much "fantasy" as they could from GOT in the early seasons whereas WOT has leaned strongly into showing as much "fantasy" as they could. 

As for The Witcher.  It is a good adaptation of a mixed set of sources.  Season 1 got a lot of stick for being confusing to those not familiar with the material.  Season 2 made some improvements.   

One can likely expect WOT to make similar improvements as they go along.