Note that I am blissfully unspoiled. Don't read into the Turin vs CassTurin thing coming from me. I'm just doing complicated math things like adding and subtracting by 1.

Official Vote Count HALLIA - 3 (Seph, Verbal, CassTurin) TURIN - 1 (DPR) Not Voting: Dice, Gudrean, Hallia, Key, Zander 5 votes to Lynch This is a Hybrid Hammer/Deadline Game Day 2 ends 10pm BST on Wednesday 9th April Day 2 Timer https://stagetimer.io/r/UVDHPDFH/

I just saw this because I had to work from the office yesterday lol

General note for people who don't read, e.g. myself, I'm pretty sure we're also supposed to delegate a backup. I know it's traditionally a nomination thing, but feel free to volunteer. I'll nominate you and say it was my idea all along.

I don't want to put words in Ithi's mouth, but in the last game game-related discussion at night was not strictly forbidden. You are asked to keep it light--it's not wall of text or page long back and forth argument season. But definitely check with her before rolling with that. I'm just here for vote counts.

I came here to make this thread but you made it a week ago. I am slow.

Official Vote Count DARTHE - 1 (Turin) TURIN - 3 (Cass, Zander, DPR) CASS - 1 (Darthe) DPR- 2 (Seph, Hallia) Not Voting: Gudrean, Key, Verbal, Dice 6 votes required for a Majority. This is a Hybrid Hammer/Deadline Game Day 1 is longer and ends 10PM BST (British Summer Time) on Friday 4th April Day 1 Timer https://stagetimer.io/r/UVDHPDFH/

Official Vote Count DARTHE - 2 (Turin, DPR) TURIN - 1 (Darthe) Not Voting: Cass, Gudrean, Hallia, Key, Seph, Verbal, Zander, Dice 6 votes required for a Majority. This is a Hybrid Hammer/Deadline Game Day 1 is longer and ends 10PM BST (British Summer Time) on Friday 4th April Day 1 Timer https://stagetimer.io/r/UVDHPDFH/

Official Vote Count DARTHE - 2 (Turin, DPR) TURIN - 1 (Darthe) Not Voting: Cass, Gudrean, Hallia, Key, Seph, Verbal, Zander, Dice 6 votes required for a Majority. This is a Hybrid Hammer/Deadline Game Day 1 is longer and ends 10PM BST (British Summer Time) on Friday 4th April Day 1 Timer https://stagetimer.io/r/UVDHPDFH/

Only I may shad.

Official Vote Count DARTHE - 3 (Dice, Turin, DPR) TURIN - 1 (Darthe) Not Voting: Cass, Gudrean, Hallia, Key, Seph, Verbal, Zander 6 votes required for a Majority. This is a Hybrid Hammer/Deadline Game Day 1 is longer and ends 10PM BST (British Summer Time) on Friday 4th April Day 1 Timer https://stagetimer.io/r/UVDHPDFH/

Behold the power of TEAL FONT Official Vote Count DARTHE - 1 (Dice) TURIN - 1 (Darthe) Not Voting: Cass, DPR, Gudrean, Hallia, Key, Seph, Turin, Verbal, Zander 6 votes required for a Majority. This is a Hybrid Hammer/Deadline Game Day 1 is longer and ends 10PM BST (British Summer Time) on Friday 4th April Day 1 Timer https://stagetimer.io/r/UVDHPDFH/

Good news is you'll almost certainly never see me do it in a live game these days. XD

Not asking you to go find out, but I'm super curious what aspect of the site they were involved in and when. Champs, small games, mashes, Discord... They all have a bit of variance due to the size of the player base and so many people only participating in one or two of these. I've spent more time on MU than anywhere else on the internet in my 30 years of being actively online, so it's always interesting to me who takes issue where. While I'm not at all happy with the state of mashes right now and don't think it's a coincidence that I started drifting away from the Discord when some of the same people became active there, I do think that on average over the course of 10 years the place has maintained a very healthy environment. I won't be surprised if I find myself more involved again when certain people have moved on.

I guess I should add that attributing this to generations is baseless. Yes, it's the current norm on MU and yes, a larger portion of MU players are zoomers than ever before, but I don't have any strong evidence that the two factors are related. Local culture is driven by the louder voices in it. It could just be a who are the popular members right now sort of thing that could happen whether they're 16 or 60.

Didn't ignore this just wanted to chew on it a bit first. If I had to put a finger on it, I think this younger gen feels more compelled on average to defend each other. Not an inherently bad trait, but exhausting in a Werewolf environment. Everyone reacts to stress differently, and this game can be stressful for sure. Personalities clash, insults fly, feelings get hurt. No Werewolf community is immune to these situations. How they deal with them differs. I, and I think maybe a lot of you, belong to a generation that ...respected each other's right to not be offended. Sometimes being yelled at or called names kinda amuses me. Sometimes it irritates me but just a little, not in a way that impacts my day. I don't always care, and if I do care I'll be sure to let it be known, and sometimes letting it be known is all I want. I do engage in conflicts often. I'm kind of a magnet for other people's drama. But when I get involved, it's a personal thing. Sometimes I think one party is dead wrong and I want to express my opinion on the topic. Sometimes I think the aggressor has the right of it but is expressing themselves poorly, and I want to offer my gentler perspective on the point they're trying to make. Sometimes I just enjoy engaging in the exercise of conflict resolution. But the consistent feature is it's personal. I am stepping into this arena, and whatever way the ship sails I am now an invested party. My statements are unambiguously my point of view. I might try to paraphrase what someone else has said or apply knowledge based on previous interactions to attempt to speak on their behalf, but you will never see me take offense on their behalf. If I'm hostile towards you, which is rare, rest assured you have crossed my personal threshold of tilt. Maybe I got there observing your behavior without directly engaging you, but it's not about the other guy at that point. I find taking offense on someone else's behalf insulting, disrespectful, imposing. I have no right to assume the thickness of your skin a priori. This is not a perfect world view. People fall through the cracks. I've seen it a lot, especially with passive aggressive bullies who twist the knife subtly into people who can take an awful lot. I've seen it happen to people who play on this site, where the jabs are never clear enough to directly upset me on the sidelines and I remain willfully oblivious to how much they're eating away at the target. I've tried to be more proactive about reaching out to other people like "hey, is this bothering you?" I'm not great at it, but it's a practice I've learned from watching younger generations play. It's something they're better at. Where we go too far in letting things slide, this younger crowd goes too far in actively policing. I can't speak to the principles ingrained in their heads. Maybe I ought to be able to and the principles in mine that I've just laid out make me stubbornly resistant to getting it. But what I observe is an instinct to protect one another that has obvious value but often ignores context and leads to condemnation prior to harm. Frequent cases where no party involved has shown the slightest indication that they are upset and passive observers devoid of opinion on the situation blow things up anyway just in case the player is silently bothered. The benefit is a much kinder, gentler, accommodating environment if you follow their social rules; there's simply zero tolerance for alternatives. "Toxic anti-toxicity" I've taken to calling it. Most of these younger players are legitimately nicer to each other than we could ever hope to be. If you buy into their world, you're going to be immersed in compliments and positive encouragement. If that was my world, I think I'd be very happy with it. They certainly seem to know how to make each other feel good about themselves, and they're eager to do it. But to me it's so superficial, and I see a lot of passive aggressive exploitation. They're blind to things I'm not, just like I'm blind to things they're not. But man, it's hard for me these days. I see someone call a player a wolf aggressively and you can bet someone will completely discredit the push on the grounds that the pusher is a bully, regardless of the reasoning behind it and the reaction of the accused. I see someone, even politely, criticize a set-up in post game, and guaranteed there will be a wall of posts how daring them for taking issue when the hosts put so much time and effort into developing it--even if the host is receptive to the criticism and regardless of their defenders' own unstated opinions on the quality of the job. The level of flattery necessary to deliver the vaguest suggestion for improvement in someone's play style without reprisal is oppressively cumbersome. It cuts out the dingus who has never had a good word to say about anybody, but it also cuts out the people who want to have a sincere non-judgmental chat about ineffective strategy or game design. A few years back they banned discussion of why teams and players should not win the annual site awards--you are only allowed to say why your preference should win, not why the alternatives should not. And if a player DOES say they're feeling bad, for goodness sake don't be the person they are talking to. Even if you tried your best to be courteous and sincerely apologize, you are guilty. There's little interest in looking at both sides and pursuing common ground. Certain passive aggressive people have made an art of this, drawing attention to their emotional state any time their authority is questioned to guarantee blind support. I've been grumbling about this in private for a few years now, but one particular game last year finally did me in and made me authentically disinterested in signing up for future games. I'll spoiler it since it's a long story in itself: This sounds like a horror story, and it was, but it was a a worst case scenario and keep in mind: seeing the good in my world and the bad in theirs is easy. Seeing the bad in mine and the good in theirs takes effort. When I think back to all the bull crap people went through there ten years ago because we were excessively tolerant of hostile behavior, were we really any better? Probably not. And wow, if I did subscribe to their social norms, what a cesspool the games of 10 years ago must have been, everyone treating everyone like crap and hurling insults all over the place. I'm personally more comfortable in that higher hostility world. My values favor open conversation and letting people speak their mind with the consequence that they might get a piece of someone else's in return. Kindness to me should be a choice we all strive towards, not a mandate we all try to skirt around. It's too complex of an equation to say where the greater net positive lies. As always, it's probably somewhere in between. It's just different, but different in a way that I find stifling and difficult to navigate under the best of circumstances.

I upscaled it a lot but I think it was originally doable with 20.

Unironically yes but there's no chance people will play it XD I actually built a Dragonmount bastard mash yeeeeears ago that's still sitting in the dust bin.

Yeah sure when you know in advance that one of them means you can't be in wolf chat. Imagine just being told with no context that you are a reclusive self-targetable compulsive fruit vendor lol. The thought that I might not be supposed to have access never even crossed my mind. I'm all for RTFM but I shot out the whispers to enter wolf chat before turning to the dictionary.

Hahaha was it Anni 9? 120's a lot even for POG mashes but that's one hell of a crash course. Anni 10 was my first mash and I still remember so many details and how utterly lost I felt. Luckily one guy played so poorly his name became a verb, so my poor performance was quickly forgotten. XD

40+ player games, usually 60-80. Typically with 12 hour phases and a day phase death mechanic where every player is given a gun with a 15% hit chance to fire at whoever they want to. Traditionally mashes start on Mondays and are designed with enough kill power to always end by Friday, so you can play at work. You are expected to not read every post. Rather, effective strategy as a villager is to form pockets of people you trust and eliminate wolves by process of elimination. Effective strategy as a wolf is to go big and loud, exploit the time restraints to kill the town core before it can form. It's a lot more... free? I think? than regular Werewolf. You can wolf pretty openly and not worry about the long con. You can contribute a lot as a villager without great wolf reads if you're just able to find a bunch of villagers and keep them out of the line of fire. No one expects you to read the thread outside of the time you actively spend in it, and it's fair play to just show up at your lunch break and shoot who you're told to. There's a lot of leverage to accommodate variance in how busy you are. But it's certainly an adjustment; 30,000 posts can be overwhelming on its face, takes a sort of mental reset to realize you don't have to read them. After 20 years of this basic format, the zoomer crowd started introducing Friday starts last year. It's unplayable for anyone with a normal 9-5 job and family. A lot of these games I couldn't play anymore if I wanted to. But that wasn't the leading factor in stepping away. I'm just disconnected with their perception of politeness. The same wording I've been using to express reads on people and opinions of game designs for a decade tends to rub people like I'm being aggressive now, and I don't get it or care enough to figure it out.

I've played 72 mashes, just "retired" last fall. It's sort of my specialty lol. But the demographics have shifted and I have a hard time enjoying myself when most of the players are zoomers. Too many cultural barricades, feels like I'm constantly accidentally offending people and I just can't relate to them. Some of you probably felt the same way when my generation rolled into the game a decade ago lol

Back in my day we would just say things like "You can't communicate with the rest of your team". XD

It was unique to my role and the rest of the wolves had a wolf chat. What caught me off guard was that I was expected to assume I wasn't supposed to have access to it or else ask a host. I just dove head first into PMing my team mates. My role was "Recluse, Self-targetable, Compulsive (x3 ITA Shots, 30% ITA Hit Chance, x2 ITA Shield, 3% ITA Booster, 3% ITA Nerfer) Mafia Fruit Vendor" Somewhere in this string of words I was supposed to know that I don't have access to wolf chat. Everyone but me thought this was obvious. Your guess is as good as mine lol

I'm not advocating running games there because I like the on-site revival and think we should keep things here where possible, but Dragonmount does have a dedicated subforum on Mafia Universe where we can create private access dead threads.