I assumed that the Dark One tugged on the pattern when Moridin fired his stream, causing the two to connect.

 

I know that Rand goes mad due to using the True Power, however, without this link, he wouldn't have been able to do that. What would Moridin have done then?

 

Sorry, I just want the Forsaken to be cunning, y'know?

 

And I still want to know why Mesaana (the one who orchestrated the tower schism and manipulated every remaining tower sister into hating each other) didn't believe one of her best agents about a plot to uncover the Black Ajah but the Dark One did. Could the Forsaken stop losing IQ points the second they appear on page? yeesh!

You use the tools you have. If they didn't have the link, they would have used something else to push him over the edge. I'm not aware of any indicator the link was deliberately caused, though.

 

but do you buy that they could've found another means that was just as effective?

Quite possibly. Rand had plenty of weak points that could have been attacked, and the Taint was having a noticeably negative effect on his sanity - to attack those he loves or to increase the stress on him to beyond breaking point, if Semi had dragged him back with the Domination Band rather than torturing him, these are all viable options. It was killing a woman that was one of the big things that pushed him over the edge - crossing the red line he had drawn for himself. The TP helped a lot, but there were enough other contributing factors that it might well have happened even without the link.

I assumed that the Dark One tugged on the pattern when Moridin fired his stream, causing the two to connect.

 

I know that Rand goes mad due to using the True Power, however, without this link, he wouldn't have been able to do that. What would Moridin have done then?

 

Sorry, I just want the Forsaken to be cunning, y'know?

 

And I still want to know why Mesaana (the one who orchestrated the tower schism and manipulated every remaining tower sister into hating each other) didn't believe one of her best agents about a plot to uncover the Black Ajah but the Dark One did. Could the Forsaken stop losing IQ points the second they appear on page? yeesh!

You use the tools you have. If they didn't have the link, they would have used something else to push him over the edge. I'm not aware of any indicator the link was deliberately caused, though.

Thursday night at work, I started reading Storm of Iron a WarHammer 40K book by Graham McNeill. 

 

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Storm-of-Iron-2008-Edition.html

If you've not read them yet, check out the Night Lords trilogy by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. Black Library's best writer, writing about the best Chaos Legion.

I have a question about why Lan wanted to ride off to the Blight/Borderlands/Gap in KoD.  In the Golden Crane chapter, Lan is frustrated that Rand won't send men to the Borderlands to fight.  Nynaeve accepts that this is a legitimate concern and is willing to send Lan off to do this.  However, if she hadn't tricked Lan into going to World's End and riding all the way to Tarwin's Gap, and sent her message via the merchants, Lan would have basically ridden up to the gap on his own.  We see his extreme reluctance to take men with him on route.  Have I missed something here, or do Lan's actions really not make any sense?  He wants the Borderlands to be protected, but his plan is to go to the Gap himself, and what?  Kill twenty trollocs and a couple of myrdraal before being slaughtered?  How does that help hold back the Shadow at all?

By drawing Rand's attention north. Rather than a bunch of strangers that Rand doesn't know or have to think about fighting and dying, it's Rand's friend, making it harder for him to ignore the problem - he commits forces to save or avenge Lan.

Terry Goodkind is a master Satirist. Stephen Colbert has nothing on him and like Andy Kauffman he refuse to break character. No person in this world could possibly be as obtuse as Terry.

I hate to skewer your optimism, but they really, really can. And that's where your friend's theory falls apart - it could be a parody so subtle no-one realises it's a parody, or it could be the real thing, but if the parody is indistinguishable from the work of a genuine hack then on what basis is it claimed to be a parody? While Goodkind might be a popular whipping boy, he is hardly the only example of the terrible standard he is known for. Others share his every fault - are they all master satirists themselves? And who are they satirising? Well, as it stands, themselves.

So Goodkind may be the worlds biggest jerk, or he may have conned an entire genre into thinking he is a nut job and he sits at home counting his money and laughing up his sleeves.

So he has conned the world. To what end? He got his contract for fantasy books, they didn't require that it be a parody of the bad fantasy exemplified by Terry Goodkind, he didn't become successful as a comedian or satirist. The people who brought his books didn't do so with the understanding of him being a parodist, they did so with the understanding of him being dead straight. So he is mocking who? The people who made him rich? Seems like he still qualifies as a jerk either way.

Lastly, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - what suggests that SoT is a parody of whatever it is it's meant to be parodying, as opposed to merely being the work of an unpleasant, arrogant, Swedish grandmother-hating git?

I'm not convinced, especially since I've discussed Marx with several of you before. You've given me every reason to believe you love Marx and hate anything opposed to his ideas. I just ordered the first book in SoT, just so I can see what the fuss is about.

The first book isn't that political, most of the straw-manning comes later. The first book can be hated purely for its quality, with no need to drag Marxist conspiracy theories in.

I haven't read any SoT books, but maybe some hate the books because the author is ... not in the same corner politically?  He is right leaning (I've heard so, anyway), and many DMers are left leaning. Love Marx, hate Rand - Ayn Rand, that is. Heh.

Wrong again. Still impressive how you refuse to allow anything from outside your own world-view to impact upon it. It's not that Goodkind favours Rand's philosophies, it's that he bludgeons people around the head with political strawmen that favour Rand's philosophies and condemn those who oppose her. And he's a bad writer, and he reuses his own plotlines, and he shamelessly rips off WoT, and his own obnoxious personality in the interviews he has given.

 

Why would uniqueness matter?

Because if they are not unique then it follows no one is ripping off anyone, or rather everyone is "ripping off" each other.

It means SoT and WoT don't share 9999999 similarities it means SoT, WoT, and 999999 other series share those same similarities.

That doesn't follow. The idea of a magic sword, for example, isn't unique, but magic swords can take many forms, fulfil many roles - two different authors could use the same idea in very different ways. The problem is, people are seeing the Goodkind is using the same ideas in very similar ways.

 

The Worst Witch? Harry Potter? Straying outside epic fantasy, here - same genre, different subgenre.

Please. Are you really arguing that Harry Potter and WoT are too different to compare?

No, they can be compared, but the trappings of the two sub-genres are not the same. The common tropes of one genre or sub-genre are not necessarily common in another. So if you are straying outside the epic fantasy sub-genre for your examples, that indicates a tacit acceptance that this is not a common epic fantasy trope - one author using it is original, another? Could be, or could be derivative of the earlier one to use it.

 

And Harry Potter doesn't even have an all-female school.

Beauxbatons Academy of Magic.

Which has male pupils. Which, by definition, means it isn't all-female. (The film may not show any male pupils, but the books refer to them explicitly.)

 

The argument people are using is that WoT and SoT have a higher than usual number of very specific similarities - not just things that are generic within the fantasy genre, not just one or two very similar things but a lot of very similar, non-generic things.

Yes and I keep asking what those things are and then just get referred to old threads or ignored.

Well, given you ignore the examples that are given to you, and don't address the points that are put to you, then why should people put in any effort when debating with you?

 

More likely is that Goodkind copied from RJ. Plagiarism is, by its nature, difficult to define the parameters of, but there's no need to make it harder. There are similarities that go beyond the generic, and they are quite numerous. This is enough for us to be suspicious.

You're suspicious so he's guilty is the reasoning you're using here. I hope you can see how unfair that is.

It would be unfair if it was my point, but it isn't, so it's hardly relevant.

 

Recall from the start we said it's not about generic fantasy tropes.

Recall what I said about the vast majority of similarities being generic tropes.

 

Care to back that up?

 

"Male wizards are derided/looked upon with fear/need to be controlled. (&)There are no organized male institutions in the modern day." How many have devices like the a'dam and gender specific type magic that use woven flows of elements?

What you're asking for is too specific. I can find series where magic users are looked down on I'm sure but I don't know if they will be male. It may be that only RJ and Goodkind chose to spin the trope that way. I'll also note that iirc male magic users are NOT looked down on universally in Goodkinds series. The Midlands was friendly to Wizards.

 

The whole point is that the similarities are very specific - therefore  the more specific, the better. And the more generic your counters, the more evident it is that you don't have an argument.

 

We are talking about incredibly specific things. And it's not just one or two, but many things that go beyond generic.

That's what I'm trying to say. It IS just a few things.

 

Not really.

Ares: I think you are missing my point rather than the other way around. I was just using an example to illustrate that the similarities between WoT and SoT are not unique to them and are actually shared across the genre. My point is that if they are not unique then why does the number of similarities matter? You can name any two random series and find dozens of tropes and plot devices they share.

Why would uniqueness matter? For example, lots of series have magic swords. Magic swords made of crystal, prophetically linked to the main character (not saying SoT has one, just using it as an example) are not a common fantasy trope, but finding two series which both use it wouldn't be anything much. But when you have a lot of those same, very specific similarities, and your counter refers only to the greatest of generalities, then one can't help but think that you're not addressing what people are saying. The Worst Witch? Harry Potter? Straying outside epic fantasy, here - same genre, different subgenre. And Harry Potter doesn't even have an all-female school. The argument people are using is that WoT and SoT have a higher than usual number of very specific similarities - not just things that are generic within the fantasy genre, not just one or two very similar things but a lot of very similar, non-generic things. This is true even if these ideas are not ideas RJ invented. All-female magic schools with significant political power are not ten a penny in fantasy. Even if there are others besides WoT and SoT, they're still uncommon. If that was the only such similarity, again, that would not be the problem. But when you have a lot of specific, shared ideas, things which aren't common to the genre as a whole, that fill the same roles in the plot, are used in the same way, then really it looks absurd to stick your fingers in your ears and say "lalala, I'm not listening", which is what your argument has amounted to. We could argue that Goodkind and RJ merely borrowed from the same sources, in the same ways, and generated their own unique twists and touches, in a purely coincidental way. But this is unlikely. More likely is that Goodkind copied from RJ. Plagiarism is, by its nature, difficult to define the parameters of, but there's no need to make it harder. There are similarities that go beyond the generic, and they are quite numerous. This is enough for us to be suspicious.

Yes but what I am saying is I don't think there are that many examples that WoT and SoT share that they don't also share with other series.

I'll take the example of Aes Sedai and the Sisters of the Light as I believe they are one of the examples that would be cited, correct me if I'm wrong though.

Yes, WoT and SoT share a school/bastion of magic using women. But coming to the conclusion that one is taken from the other is being far too hasty in my opinion.

Here are a few other examples of such things in other works:

1.Beauxbatons Academy of Magic from Harry Potter.

2.Miss Cackle's Academy for Witches from The Worst Witch.

3. Greenlaw College from Scholarly Magics.

4. Wyverly College from Old Kingdom.

5. Witch Girls has several schools for witches.

6. And I'd even go so far as to cite the women of Avalon that take Arthur after he is mortally wounded.

 

Maybe this isn't the example you would have chosen to use though and I'm open to hearing others.

Which misses the point of what was said - one similarity is nothing to write home about. The only similarities being generic fantasy tropes isn't either. How many other similarities are there between Harry Potter and WoT/SoT? Not counting generic fantasy tropes.

 

Look here is the point.  While many fantasies stories share universal myths and archetypes, SOT uses a number of quite specific items taken from the WoT that are not a dime a dozen in fantasy. It is the sheer number of those type of similarities, that causes people to quite rightly call foul.

 

I really can't think of one similarity between the two that couldn't be found in another series.

 

When you have a similarity to another series, people probably aren't going to cry foul. When you have a similarity to any number of works in the same genre, then people might accuse you of cliché  but if they accuse you of plagiarism they will hardly be taken seriously. When you have a number of very specific similarities to another work, that looks suspicious. It's not a problem to share ten ideas with ten different works, but sharing ten ideas with the same work looks rather more dodgy. When you say X is similar to Dune, Y is similar to Earthsea, Z is similar to Lord of the Rings, and so on, that's not the same thing as saying X,Y and Z (not to mention A, B, C, D, E, F, and G) are all similarities between WoT and SoT. The case against SoT has been made before, and it is quite damning.

Of course, the damning problems with SoT are there even if you ignore any accusations of plagiarism. Even thinking about how bad it is makes my thing rise up so that I have to kick a six year old in the jaw. Of course, the book itself offers an explanation for its own success: "Wizard's First Rule: people are stupid."

Would someone know if it's possible for a woman to bond another woman as Warder if they both channel, or if one of the women had been severed? Is that even a thing that's ever even been discussed in the least..?

As far as we know, there's nothing that would prevent a channeler bonding another channeler, same gender or otherwise, nor is there anything to prevent a severed channeler being bonded.

Makes you wonder how Mogheiden became a successful Chosen. She's considered the weakest and she's SUPPOSED to be the master of stealth, yet she feels the need to unsubtly go after anyone who's comparable to her strength wise (as Nynaeve demonstrated)

She's considered the weakest by fans. In the books, her strength in the OP isn't known relative to most of her colleagues. We know she's weaker than Lanfear and a coward. She shows no tendency for going after people of comparable strength, only for going after Nynaeve (it's personal). Her attempts at revenge are in T'a'r (where she feels strongest), and balefiring Nynaeve's boat (a ranged attack which is wholly in character for a coward).

How does the Dark One's taint shield work? As in, does it just appear around someone who pledges to him, or do they have to go to the Bore in order to have the protection cast on them?

We don't know.

Why doesn't Egwene take the Aes Sedai test?  I seem to remember there is a reason but can't recall what it is.  Obviously Nyn has taken the test, and I assume Elayne will once she's had her children, but why does Egwene not take it too?  I know she has already sworn on the Oath Rod, but if that's ok for her why not just let Nyn and Elayne do that too?

In addition to what Agitel already said about her being AS, it would have undermined her position as Amyrlin to take the test, being an admission that she was not truly AS.

Just woondering, why are the Forsaken so much stronger than the majority of 3rd Age Chanellers? and why are there no One Power Powerhouses like Nynaeve in the Tower already. They're not eactly unheard of in the 3rd Age, we see a few in later books. Is it just bad luck on the Tower's part?

There's a bell curve for strength in the OP, so extremes of strength are rarer. The AS make no real effort to seek out girls to send them to the WT - usually, they prefer girls to come to them. This has the net effect of the already rarer extremes being less likely to go to the WT (or arriving too late to be accepted as Novices), especially in the case of learners who have no indication of being channelers. This is in contrast to the Windfinders, Wise Ones and Damane, where the respective organisations do sweep the entire population and thus get every channeler, or close to. So bad luck plays a part, but they make no real effort to skew the odds in their favour. As for the Chosen, the situation they find themselves in is very much survival of the fittest - strength alone won't guarantee success, but is it something that can help. These are all people who were able to claw their way to the top in a very cut throat environment. If they weren't strong enough to depose those above them, to protect themselves from those below, they'd need to rely on other skills for survival and advancement (but the stronger people would also be trying to master those skills). Their extra strength was probably enough to give some of them an edge to put them above some of their rivals.

This is clearly an epic fantasy, and you want the fight to be logical and practical? Come on, of course it's going to be epic with Lan sheating the sword. Yes, why would Demandred go for a swordfight? Because it's seems more epic. Of course a fight with the One Power could also be equally epic, with a swordfight was chosen. And thank god to that, because I prefer swordsfights to power-fights.

I would rather things make sense than were just put in the the sake of "being epic". Whatever happens has to be something that makes sense in terms of the characters - if the characters have to act out of character in order to get you the epic moment, then the writer is doing something wrong. He's trying to force a conclusion rather than letting things come to a head naturally. Both Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson are capable of having epic moments that make sense in character. This wasn't one. The problem is, not everyone is left thinking about how awesome and epic it is - some are left thinking things like how did Lan get to him, why is Demandred's security so bad, why are all the Sharan archers so rubbish, are we really supposed to be believe that Two Rivers archers are clinically incapable of missing their target, why is Demandred engaging in a sword fight anyway? Now, Lan killing Demandred in a sword fight is not an unworkable idea, but you need to set it up right, and you need to execute it right.

One thing though, I thought it would be a one-to-one fight against Mat, not Lan. And that would be more epic, general against general in a last battle. Also, my naive side, wanted Demandred to be shocked realising Mat's the general that outplayed him (not that he was LTT). 

 

Also, Demandred seems to be the only Forsaken who was really hard to kill. Gawyn dying, trying to be a hero. Galad almost dying trying to do the right thing. Now, why Lan? As someone said somewhere, Lan was already a badass. The fight should have gone to Mat in my opinion. Still, Demandreds death was good. He died in the midst of the battle, one-on-one swordfight. 

Mat is not the sort of guy who would seek out a one on one fight, nor would he be eager to accept. Neither is Demandred the sort of guy who would seek it out, not with anyone besides LTT - and he had no reason to conclude Mat was LTT. How would a one on one fight between Mat and Demandred come about? Why would they fight it?

This actually came up and me and my hubby where playing some Wheel of Time roleplaying. Myrddraal have some connection to channeling, one theory is that they are created when the channeling gene show up in a trolloc offspring, and they are needed to tun channelers to the Shadow. My question then is, could someone shield a fade, or try to sever them and what would the result be if it was tried.

 

Also I was wondering are Myrddraal born without eyes or do they loose them as they come of age, and at what age to they start to be able to teleport using shadows, I can imagine it to be rather frustrating for their trolloc mother if they do it from birth.

This quote might well be of use to you:

BRANDON SANDERSON

Myrddraal are not Trollocs who can channel. Their powers are totally independent from the One Power. They really are just throwbacks to the human stock. Harriet added that there are also animal throwbacks, but they just die.

So, they're not channelers, so it's doubtful severing or shielding would have any effect on them.

Oh, I just always heard that Demandred was second to Lews in everything (height, power, fame, good looks, etc)

Demandred always came in second to LTT in his accomplishments. The other things, no real sign of an issue.

So, has RJ ever said exactly who it was that spoke in Rand's head near the end of book 1?  I always assumed it was the Dark One (since Ishamael wasn't the real Dark One in that book despite everyone seeming to think he was) but I've heard some people say it was The Creator itself. If it is, then why would it speak to Rand like that? It's not like it would need to justify itself to anyone. It's god.

The Voice was something RJ always RAFOed, and Sanderson follows suit. It's not Shai'tan, though. Also, Shai'tan is as much a god as the Creator, so being god is not reason enough to not talk to people.

I wanna know what the hell happened with Demandred in the battle of Shadar Lagoth. Isn't Demandred supposed to be the 2nd strongest channeler who's EVER lived. Just barely second to Lews Therin in everything. A near unrivalled master in both chaneling based and physical combat.... yet he couldn't beat a single Asha'man in a small circle?

 

Yeah, that's a dignified introduction for one of my favourite villains -____-

No, Demandred is not supposed to be the second strongest channeler - he is, at best, the fourth strongest Chosen (behind Ishamael, Aginor and Lanfear), and is behind who knows how many on the side of the Light. As for the fight, it's not a fight he wanted to be part of - he's a general, not a foot soldier, so he wants to be commanding armies and not making solo strikes against the enemy. True, he would want to kill Rand, but then there's precious little point wasting time fighting people like Flinn - even if Demandred is better, a lucky shot could spell the end of him. So he backs away from the fight because he has nothing to gain from fighting it and because he doesn't want to fight it. If anything, it's an example of the competent villainy you keep asking for - to fight with no gain would be foolish. Retreat was the best option under the circumstances.

I know but he can chalk all those deaths as collateral damage as he proves he's better than LTT I could be wrong but did he set up horrific schools or feed entire cities to trollocs I don't recall him bieng associated with any of those stories

Actually, feeding two cities to the Trollocs because he felt they had slighted him was one of his atrocities. By today's standards, he'd be considered a war criminal and guilty of crimes against humanity - any claim to clean hands is just laughable.

As for how Demandred should be dealt with, it's all in the execution. Any idea we come up with could be handled badly. If you want Demandred to die in a sword fight, you need to set things up so he either willing to enter into a sword fight, or simply unable to avoid it. You need a plausible reason for his killer to get close (as opposed to "magic arrows kill everything in Lan's path and no-one just shoots him because oh look, a squirrel"). Lan killing Demandred could have worked better had it been handled differently. We don't need three progressively better swordsmen duelling Demandred, we don't need the monologuing. We also don't need Sheathing the Sword to be further diluted. Make it quick - the quicker it is, the less chance there is for Demandred to protect himself or kill his opponent with the OP.

 

 

The mechanics are arbitrary by their DEFINITION.

 

YOu just said. Ta'vereness only works if teh pattern (Robert Jordan) needs something to happen

 

Ta'veren exist because the Wheel spins them out as corrective mechanisms with the intent to weave the Pattern in certain ways. While random chance does happen around them because there's a warping effect, if you will, there's an underlying purpose, and the ta'veren can't just bend it to their will. The mechanics are clear. All you're saying is that author's create their own narratives. Well.... duh.

 

The Pattern is an intelligent thing. It just is, it's composed of the threads of people and things. The Wheel is what weaves. It's actively monitoring. It's like a supercomputer taking in information and trying to predict things in advance. It doesn't know the future, it just takes in lots of inputs. It doesn't exert specific control over all individual threads, but if the Pattern is not playing out as it should (Ages repeat, remember, not exactly, and they change more and more each rotation) then the Wheel corrects for it, either by spinning out Heroes or by selecting specific threads and making them ta'veren and using them. Ta'veren seem to cause other threads to warp around them. Some of this intentional, with the Wheel trying to direct things in certain ways, and it should be said that it's warping and trying to shape in that way, not dictating each and every thread. But that warping effect also causing random things to happen, too.

Then we come back to that age old question. If reality is warping everything around the main characters an dactively shuffling events so that they happen in the way the Pattern wants then where is the TENSION? Where is the belief that evil has a chance of winning? This is not an EXPERIMENTAL story. This is a 14 book several year long investment of time and energy just to read it. You need to buy that the characters are in danger and that they could actually die.. You need to buy that the bad guys could actually achieve their flaming goals.

 

The Dark One wants to destroy the pattern, yet everything the heroes and villains do bends itself to the pattern's wishes when Ta'veren are around. The Pattern obviously isn't going to let itself be destroyed... so where's the chance that the Dark One might win? What reason do I have to care while I'm reading?

 

I've heard people talk about this element forever and yet they never seem to comprehend my underlying issue. THERE. IS. NO. TENSION.

If no-one comprehends your underlying issue, then perhaps you should stop and think why. Is it because you are making your point badly, or is it because you are making a bad point? As it is, we tell you over and over that the Shadow can win, that ta'veren does not guarantee victory, that the Shadow wins several victories throughout the series and has won (albeit not completely) in Ages past. We even tell you over and over that the Pattern doesn't have any wishes to bend people to. There are mechanisms to correct the drift of the pattern, not to stop it drifting to begin with. If you've already freed Shai'tan before the Wheel can put things back on track, it's too late. The reach of a ta'veren's ta'maral'ailen isn't infinite, they can't be everywhere, so if you create chaos everywhere that a ta'veren isn't it will take a lot of time and effort to put right. If they can't deal with everything before it's too late, you've won. You keep going on about the concepts that destroy the tension, but they don't. So, what's the problem?

Never thought about this until today, while reading in The Shadow Rising when Asmodean tells Rand's crew and the Aiel a post-Breaking tale, and it got me wondering... The Forsaken have only been free for a little while, and with the exception of Ishamael they have been unaware of the world. How do they know so much about the people and customs of Randland? They never show any knowledge gaps when interacting with people, and have no problem speaking the common tongue, and seem to have a better grasp than most about what's been going on for the past few thousand years. It seems like, in Asmodean's case, memorizing a ballad about Manetheren would be pretty low on the todo list after being free for the first time in over three thousand years

The common tongue is derived from the Old Tongue, and is comparatively easy to learn. As for Asmo, for a man with his interests learning about the music of the Age is surely going to be somewhere on the agenda, especially as he is posing as a gleeman. Mostly, we don't see them in situations where their knowledge gaps would show.

Mat is trying to get the secret of fireworks out of this girl. But she's screwing around with him and giving him riddles and crap to solve.

 

... why doesn't his Ta'veren-ness just make her tell him? It can make Aes Sedai bow to Rand and cause the most ruthless traders in the world to agree to a deal with Mat. I thought being Ta'veren made things that someone COULD say but likely wouldn't far more likely. but it can't make someone say something they would NEVER in a million years say.

 

Is that implying that this random illuminator physically would NEVER tell Mat the secret unless he solves her riddle? Implying she has more willpower than the flaming SEA FOLK.

Ta'veren doesn't work according to the desires of the ta'veren, but the needs of the Pattern. If the Pattern doesn't need him to have the information yet, why would it bend in his favour?

Why hadn't the people of the AOL discovered a way to cure stilling and unthread weaves?

 

I know, I know "They consider it impossible" But WHY? I don't buy that a culture thousands of years ahead of ours, with countless scholars, eager students and straight up mavericks trying to do the impossible wouldn't have discovered SOMETHING. The unthreading weaves thing is especially inexcusible. The Aiel wise ones learned how to do it. and it really doesn't sound that intricate (especially if you start off small which is what Aviendha says happens when they learn how to do it. They don't START with trying to unweave gateways.

 

People say "They were afraid to see what would happen" I don't buy that. That's not how people work. There will always be SOMEONE who goes against the grain and brings forth innovation. People are ambitious. There weren't even a handful of people with Nynaeve's drive back in the AOL trying to cure stilling? The cure really didn't sound that complicated.

 

I refuse to believe that ambitiousness didn't exist until the 3rd age

Did the necessary ambition exist in someone with the necessary Talent for Delving and Healing? Was the risk of damage, to yourself and others, worth the possible advantages, which are very minor, of unweaving? In our own history, many erroneous assumptions have gone unchallenged for centuries before being overturned.

 

Why hadn't the people of the AOL discovered a way to cure stilling and unthread weaves?

 

I know, I know "They consider it impossible" But WHY? I don't buy that a culture thousands of years ahead of ours, with countless scholars, eager students and straight up mavericks trying to do the impossible wouldn't have discovered SOMETHING. The unthreading weaves thing is especially inexcusible. The Aiel wise ones learned how to do it. and it really doesn't sound that intricate (especially if you start off small which is what Aviendha says happens when they learn how to do it. They don't START with trying to unweave gateways.

 

People say "They were afraid to see what would happen" I don't buy that. That's not how people work. There will always be SOMEONE who goes against the grain and brings forth innovation. People are ambitious. There weren't even a handful of people with Nynaeve's drive back in the AOL trying to cure stilling? The cure really didn't sound that complicated.

 

I refuse to believe that ambitiousness didn't exist until the 3rd age

If you read between the lines carefully, you will see that the AoL was anything but. Lets say for arguments sake that the Breaking started in 4,000-5,000 AD. (People had long lives in the AoL). Crime was brutally supressed; if someone committed a crime, ONCE, there was no lawyer or jury. The Servants of the People (Aes Sedai) were the Imperial Senate, for all intents and purposes. There is a whole discussion on it somewhere. While someone, somewhere may have invented unweaving, its entirely possible that the use of it was discouraged for political and practical reasons. Even if its fully safe, its not without greater risk than simply letting it collapse. In the WoS it likely was not necessary to focus on the 'impossible', and AFAIK 'severing' was considered to be a punishment for criminals - no need to learn to Heal it in the first place.

At least one of the Chosen was a lawyer prior to joining the Shadow (an evil lawyer? I know, it does sound rather implausible, doesn't it?). Balthamel never earned a third name, due to his actions, but wasn't bound, and Semi was a repeat offender before being given her choice. Also, bear in mind that Severing could be carried out by a criminal on a law abiding AS, if they knew how - knowing how to undo it could certainly have applications. I'm not aware of any real degree of evidence in support of the "AoL is a fascist dystopia" idea.

How did Thom survive being wounded by a Mydraal in tEoTW?  In tSR Moiraine comments that if he had got to an AS for healing he wouldn't have a limp.  I thought anyone cut with a Myrdraal blade died unless they got AS healing?

He wasn't cut with a Myrddraal's blade.

Where did Balthamel's outfit and mask come from anyway? I would assume he made it himself. But why? What was with the smiling face?

 

and if it was to hide his appearance. He knows the Mirrors of mist weave. Aginor too for that matter but he didn't seem too fussed on his appearance

He had it before he went into the Bore. So, presumably, he wore them because he liked them.

But the pattern is EVERYTHING and we aren't really shown how you can fight it. How do you fight something that knows literally EVERYTHING about everyone and controls things in such a way that it appears natural? This isn't a computer this is reality itself. What methods does Shaitan have of going against the grand design?

 

And are you saying I can't even enjoy it when the Chosen does something cool? :(

The Pattern doesn't know anything, it is merely comprised of everything. The Wheel guides the Pattern, but the Wheel is a non-sentient corrective mechanism.

 

 

In TDR. How did Moiraine figure out that Lord Brend was Sammael after just being in town for a little while? Is he that obvious?

That one has never had a good answer. It mostly gets chocked up to "Moiraine is awesome".

 

Pretty much. This is one of the things for which there's not really a great explanation. The most we can infer is that Moiraine's educated herself on the Forsaken, and from the intel she gathered in Illain about this fast-rising star in politics, she was able to deduce who it was. Sammael didn't mask his appearance, so the odd new figure in politics combined with a physical description that is pretty specific (short, large scar on face, etc . . . ) allowed her to figure things out. We've already seen how Moiraine has access to the Blue eyes and ears network, so while the people in the network in Illian may not have figured it out, they likely would be a good source of information for the politics in Tear. The odd dreams everyone in Illian was having were another oddity, too.

Moiraine has an advantage most don't, in that she knows that the Chosen are free. For anyone else, even an expert on the Chosen, piecing the clues together and coming to the conclusion that it's Sammael is a stretch. As it is, she knows a lot about the Chosen, and there are a bunch of clues around, she just put them together. It doesn't require any sort of massive leap.