2 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Why was this such a big deal, it showed how closely he was being watched, it showed that he couldn’t even get away to do that, but it also, for once, showed a bit of mundane humanity.

I saw it as foreshadowing (if certain events come to pass) - showing that Alanna has no respect of personal space/boundary.

I don't believe I've come across Meera Syal much. The only show I can think of is the movie Beautiful Thing where she played a very caustic sarcastic teacher.

I like her as Verin though.

2 hours ago, Desudro said:

Min is the representation of the maiden: youthful, playful, active. Elated, for obvious reasons by the end of the series, represents the Mother: giving birth, nurturing, stately. And Avi represents the crone: learned, capable, and wise (she does become a Wise One by the end).

Interesting - this is the first time I've come across Min given the maiden and Aviendha given the crone.

Usually I've seen people made reference to Min being the crone as she is the only one of the 3 whose aging cannot be slowed down. And Aviendha was a Maiden of the Spear (hence maiden).

2 hours ago, Shawlee said:

these books between Chaos and Knife.

Yes, they were among my favourite too. And I love a lot of the minor characters POV

Just now, Shawlee said:

I apologize  i keep forgetting Krife and crossroads.

There is no need for apology!

6 minutes ago, Shawlee said:

we do not get ANY Pevare PoV till Brando Sando took over.

It looks like there were 3 POV by RJ (1x CoT and 2x KoD assuming the Wiki isn't in error) . Also, I'm surprised someone diligently wiki-ed POVs (fan award to that person (https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Point_of_View_Characters). :

• Pevara Tazanovni: Crossroads of Twilight, Chapter 22; Knife of Dreams, Prologue, Epilogue; Towers of Midnight, Chapter 53; A Memory of Light, Prologue, Chapters 2, 3, 4, 21, 37, 41, 42

9 minutes ago, Shawlee said:

Also, I am sorry, but I completely disagree with you on someone else playing androls love interest.

I completely understand - I do like their relationship as I said. But would have loved it even more if it didn't have the baggage of the change in tone.

1 hour ago, Shawlee said:

The first time you see Pevara is from Seaine's PoV

Yes, I am pretty sure that is correct. 

It could be only 1 PoV. The scenes I sort of recall are Pevara interacting with Tarna on Tarna's return from Salidar. Then later the Highest (forgot her name). And later one with Yukiri as they were trying to be discrete (though maybe that was Yukiri's point of view).

On 10/20/2023 at 10:03 AM, STUCARIUS said:

The continuation of the characters, not just stubbornly resisting the paths laid out before them, but consistently ignoring the changes that occur to them is painfully frustrating for the reader.

I do agree that I found it frustrating - but I recalled enjoying RJ's Matt's arc in the later books  because there was a lot of humour in it

12 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Or something like that. Always thought it was a bit weird that she was then transported to the Black Tower for so long, was a bit abrupt, but I have not read the last books very often so am not particularly qualified to comment.

Oh! that must have been her 2nd POV - arriving at the BT! That would have been in book 11. 

14 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Yes, I was more specifically referring to her Black Ajah hunting duties, where she was willing to work with other sisters, sensible, willing to sacrifice herself for a greater good, will to risk much to do the right thing, etc., etc.,

Ah yes, I get what you mean. A strange coincidence they had 1 in each Ajah (with the green turning out to be black) minus blue (rebel) 😂

3 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Take Pevara, who as a Red Sitter the story would have us believe should be the next thing to Darkfriend, should hate all non-Red sisters, and should be obsessed with power over every other concern. But we see a principled, determined, honourable, funny woman.

I remember struggling with Pevara's change of tone from RJ to BS. I think she only had 1 or 2 POV with RJ, but I quite liked her POV - I can remember one with her meeting with the Highest. The other... hmmm might be Seaine's POV. Part of me wished BS just had her turned and picked another unknown Aes Sedai as Androl's love interest, but the other part did find Pevara/Androl cute, albeit turned in a different way.

8 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I personally see the magic system as confused and with no structure, for me RJ and BS basically made it up as they went along in terms of what weaves could do, with a "what makes sense now" aspect.

I was actually going to disagree at first - because there are a lot of details in channelling. But thinking about it - you are right.

Power levels get skewed by talents - which in itself is quite fudgey: Channelers can be strong in one or a few flows of the one power (eg. Egwene/Leanne with earth) which then translate to good at certain other weaves (eg earth leads to good at ability/speed in making cuendillar). Or Channellers can be strong in a specific weave (healing/gateway/shielding).

Not any more - once upon a time.

I had move on from WoT, but the TV series brought back lots of nostalgia.

Dunno if I will ever re-read it. A few times I had re-read a book/series that I used to like a long time ago, and I find it falls short of my memory of it, and in some ways ruin the memory of it. 

On 10/31/2023 at 10:48 AM, Storeebooq said:

P.S. Oh, and some of y'all need to stop with the 'orgy ajah' quips. Seriously, how childish can you be? I know this is an assumption I've seen folks make to anyone who is polyamorous. I've had it lobbied at me as well, and it just isn't true in how we practice and live our lives. To apply it to an entire ajah just cause you have immature feelings towards a healthy, if non-traditional, relationship in the show is ridiculous. /endrant

I apologise for my quip in relation to harems. I do have this thing against harems (but not polyamory) as presented in a lot of novels as they generally either fetishized, or with misogyny undertones or other unhealthy situations.

It was completely unfair to compare TV-Alanna and Book-Myrelle in terms of their warder relationships. I actually do like how Alanna and her warders are presented in the TV series.

Book-Myrelle - there are a lot doubts in my mind as to the healthiness of her relationship with her warders/husbands. 

10 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

It's possible some other Aes Sedai included the verbiage "and dark friends" and RJ later retconned this in his later novels as he realized he done messed up.

I would say it was an error on RJ's part to miss out dark friends since the Aes Sedai had to battle dreadlords before.

In the TV series, when Moiraine recited the 3 oaths to Egwene S01e02, it does not include the exclusion to both darkfriend or shadowspawn.

Transcript copied from: https://wheeloftime.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow's_Waiting/Transcript

Granted, she may have missed the exclusion in error, but it is rather odd to talk about "exact verbiage" and then miss a very important exclusion.

11 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

Can she strike on a reasonable suspicion? Can she strike a whole boat full of people because one is a darkfriends, and the others are collateral? 

Maybe. Not convincing, but maybe.

12 hours ago, Elgee said:

she could definitely not be 100% certain that every single person on that ship was a Darkfriend

There is no exclusion to harming collateral though. Scene with the ferryman returning to his vessel being sunk and he died in the process established that to some extent. In the books tGH, it was perfectly fine for Aes Sedai to summon the wind to speed their ship down the Erinin and cause floods & damage crops along the way. Maybe RJ pictures floods differently or the types of floods he experienced in his geographical location were different from where I live. Where I live, floods from rivers kill even when the weatherman predicts the flood, much less one where Aes Sedai makes an impromptu trip down the river.  

I do agree it isn't particularly convincing about why Moiraine was able to sink the ships - sure there are a number of explanations and possibilities, and I accept a number may at a stretch be plausible because it all depends on Moiraines point of view as to what breaks her oath, but they don't feel satisfying to me as a viewer. If they explained it in S3, great, but it isn't a particularly big deal to me if the show does not explain it either.

Also, for being made a warder without consent, Lan's case is more interesting IMHO because, while it was done without his consent, it was done to save him and keep him alive. Doesn't make it any less a gross violation.

Rand's case was just a gross violation

17 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Conflating all of these into Alanna would rather reduce the green to the "orgy Ajah".

This kind of strengthen the case that they will probably merge Myrelle and Alanna unless they are going to merge Myrelle with another green.

Myrelle is the Aes Sedai that is rumoured to have married all her warders. Don't really need 2 like that in the show (with the existing Alanna) unless they are going for all greens like having a harem rather than warders.

7 hours ago, Max Delpo said:

They should keep Alanna bonding Rand but, with more development

I'm not fussed if they keep both Lan/Rand as the warder bonded without consent, or even drop both. But I can see them dropping Rand because there isn't much happening for Lan between books 6-8 to expand on the topic of consent and what the custom/tower law about warder is.

Rand has quite a bit going on, and a lot of the aes sedai/male channeler dynamic can be explored with Asha'man

Though... In saying that, Alanna taking the role of Myrelle might mean removing either Lan or Rand as the person made as a warder without consent.

I think there is a good chance they will merge Myrelle and Alanna.

If they are keeping Alanna close to Rand and Cadsuane, then I imagine they might consider Merise instead of Joline.

Though if they pick to merge with Merise, then they might move the harem bonding forward so that Alanna/Merise can bond Narishma.

1 hour ago, WoT you say said:

I believe Cadsuane was mentioned in passing by an Aes Sedai in one of the WT scenes.

I think it was mentioned by Elayne.

She was telling Egwene that some of the greatest Aes Sedai pairings happened during their novice period. Can't remember who the other Aes Sedai that was paired with Cadsuane. 

There may have been someone that mentioned that Nynaeve took the test faster than even Cadsuane.... I think.

33 minutes ago, RitualM said:

I truly do not understand why people are defending the writing and direction of this show. 

I get that some of you are blindly happy that a wheel of time show is being made but this show is wheel of time in name only. It's so far removed from the text that it's hardly recognizable to me. So many missed opportunities and significant events, characters and information are left out that it's more of a fan fiction than an adaptation at this point. The direction is so poor, the writing so lazy.

The blatant disregard to the vision and themes of the original text is an insult to Jordan's lagecy in my eyes.

My unsolicited advice to you is to cut out the Wheel of Time TV series from your life.

It is far healthier than being angry. With the wealth of content now-a-days, just flit onto another. 

You don't get bonus points in life for being a self-martyring fan, holding the bastion of RJ's legacy for him (whom, as I discovered yesterday, RJ was the one who sold the rights anyway). 

59 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

I mean in many ways it was, but it can be shot for TV, the Netflix Show Bridgerton is a period drama which has a scene that shows exactly how you could film this.

Are you talking about S1 and Daphne frustrating Simon from using the pull out method for contraception? I still found that rather icky and uncomfortable - definitely less icky than the novel version, but icky nonetheless.  

But I get your point that the show makers could try to reframe the situation so that it is more tasteful or the issue of consent is clearer

53 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Rape and sexual assault run right through the books, genrally under the surface but they are there, I hope they are shown, but not to GOT levels,

Yea, I love fantasy shows, but I could not make myself watch GOT.

This appeared in one of my feeds today -  it seems like there is a WoT time spinoff animation in the works https://winteriscoming.net/2023/10/19/dc-alum-jay-oliva-direct-animated-the-wheel-of-time-movie-the-white-tower/

That puzzled me as it didn't appear to be linked with Amazon.

A little internet sleuthing led me to discover that Red Eagle sold the rights to the book series storyline to Amazon but apparently "still have the rights to untold stories in the Wheel of time Universe and timeline". The Cursed Wheel Of Time Movie You Were Never Supposed To See (screenrant.com)

Apparently, there were even older news about a 3 part animated Movie about the Age of Legends - but looking at the writers names, it may be that the White Tower is movie 1 of the Age of Legends (which the WT doesn't exist in the AoL, but appeared after the breaking).

Not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand I have always felt WoT would have been better told in animation if going on screen. But on the other, I am pretty sure RJ did not want spin offs (unless I misremembered). But then why did he sell the rights in that manner to Red Eagle 2004 when he was live? I guess he could have changed his opinion after the sale of the rights.

10 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Every female Forsaken apart from Mesaana

(It was heavily implied Messana was raped by SH too. She wasn't spared)

10 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

the reluctant lover

5 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

But yes, when in Mat's POV I think it does dwell a bit too much on how he did not want it to happen, which does make it come across as assault, where I think it is more meant to be his outrage at her behaviour. And I think RJ did expect the juxtaposition of the gender roles to be funny.

I can understand he was trying to turn his the tables with gender roles, but unfortunately it didn't quite work for me the last I read. I feel it is also at the expense on the issue as to how men are rarely believed when they report rape, cuz what manly man would refuse sex from a beautiful lady - they should only be so pleased.

Also,  I would be quite happy for the removal of all torture and sexual assault in the TV series too on female darkfriends and forsaken when they fail/capture. I don't know if RJ was trying to evoke a sense of schadenfreude from the readers or something, but I found it uncomfortable. Sure, I realise the world is a horrible place - and he probably knows more than I do how awful the world is with his experience of war - but it is like female darkfriends and forsaken have things dialled up to 20 when karma strikes them while the men just die quickly after battle and sometimes rather unceremoniously