This has all been hashed out before, by both of us, on Day 1. I've gathered your quotes and put them in the spoiler, so as not to clog the thread, with my responses in bold below each. Do all of these mean you are definitely scum? Of course not. But there are several things that niggled at me, especially altogether. So, yes, I found you scummy D1 even before your claim.

So why would you not view them so you can be sure and not lead people the wrong way and/or clog the thread with discussion???

I'm trying to do some catching up, lol, but fine, I will. Also, I didn't say that's why you had votes on you. I was arguing against having to be voting for someone you find scummy, because you can be voting for someone you find scummier.

Well apparently I don't because that does not make any sense to me?? Why would you not check someone you thought was the scummiest????? And why do expectations matter when it comes to who you view?????

You can't leave the claim out of it. The claim is a huge part of it??? I also feel like you've done a lot of defending yourself and not actual hunting for scum. It is highly unlikely as an un cc'd cop you get lynched at any point, yet I feel like a majority of your discussions that I've read are you defending yourself, or, I suppose, going after Rand.

Misrep, imo, that's not what Rand said. re: 100% confirmed. I do agree with the side of caution though. This post does the opposite of helping me sort dice because it makes a lot of sense on how he could actually be town and the cop lol. Good points by Tig. I feel like even without DPR's claim, this post and Ed's actions through this part of the day basically clear DPR lol. I can't remember if Ed buses, but it would be a hell of a bus job. It also makes me feel good about Nyn because I think she has been doing real work, imo, and it looks like he's trying to frame her. The "can't pinpoint" thing is weird, but he could just be casting about to point people anywhere but at him. Again, idk if he buses. Makes me want to go back and see if there were any interactions between him and Heavy. I do feel like the town/null combo was just thrown in for chaos/laziness. Could be a scummate trying to help dice, could be scum propelling chaos. How are you going to put some of the most active people in thread as null???? I'm also annoyed that he has me listed as a town lean for interactions because I know I haven't had many. I know he's scum but it bothers me lol. FWIW, I didn't like Tigraine's original posts but as I've been catching up, she makes sense to me. Seems open minded to possibility and standing up for herself but not pushing anything? I feel like that's a good thing. Good vibes, I guess.

Bold is a ridiculous statement, you can think someone is scummy but think someone else is scummier and vote for them. Like what? Feels like a townie type question trying to figure someone out. Bold - Uh, no. The beginning of D1, sure, but lots goes down on D1 that is pertinent to the rest of the game. Italics - I can understand wanting to be confident in your ideas, but you playing it close to the vest does not help the rest of us any when we are trying to figure out you/the game. I say earlier when I skimmed through that you added a bunch of thoughts today, so this might be a moot point, but I think it's always good to get your ideas, or at least your reads on people out there. Please don't. I am already having trouble keeping up. Bold - how do you feel about this now, re: DPR's post about being the hider? Putting this in a spoiler because I'm sure this post is already too long. Bold - what???? this is a super weird comment. If you are the cop, following or not following expectations in so far as who you view does NOT matter because until you reveal, NO ONE KNOWS who you have chosen.

Sorry I didn't make it back y'all, it took way longer to find a dress than I thought (usually she knows what she wants), but yay for getting scum! I'm going to do a little catching up now before bed and a lotta catching up in the morning tomorrow.

Hello, I'm really sorry I haven't been around today. Just a constant stream of people at work. I know that's not helpful, but I did try to warn y'all in the sign up thread lol. I really haven't had time to read much of what happened today. I did see DPR's post because it's in big font (compensating? :p). It felt real in tone and I can see DPR doing his gambit thing so I'm inclined to believe it. I've not liked Eddie's posts all game. He's been doing little pop-ins, offering virtually nothing and does not seem interested in solving the game at all. I'm good to Vote: Ed. I have to take my daughter to find a dress for her dance tomorrow night right now, but I hope to be back on before DL. I also have tomorrow off so I will spend some time tonight and tomorrow morning digging back into the game.

@RandA lThor - Except, I feel slightly more on the fence about DPR now because he gave a firm statement on how he feels about Eddie and because I now see how dice could be scum claiming. And he was nice to me today, so maybe I'm a sucker lol. But I don't like absolutes and I feel it's weird that he's stuck that it must have happened one way, so I hope to reread him in the morning before my classes and get a better feel. Ithi answered me re: Ed and lazy Marsh lynch. I basically feel the same on her, still leaning town. I misremembered her saying lazy and I get wanting to look at both trains. I wasn't crazy about her reply on Ed, but the other points below are the same. Dice - I have no freaking clue now. I get now how he could make that claim easily as scum, but we do have a cop so ???

Okay, @Verbal32, @Nynaeve & weirdly @DPR - I thought about this my entire commute home. Where I'm at is that I think it would be too complicated for me to do as scum. I would never in a million years think to do it and I'm not even sure I would do it if I had a team egging me on to do it. But, dice is not me and if I remove myself and my play from the situation, I can see where it is likely an easy call for someone who has more balls (figuratively and literally in this case if true lol) to make as scum who has been strung up.

I don't see how that's simpler than just the cop playing scummy beforehand and then claiming? They are on par with each other at the very best. I am very likely distracted. I'm trying to do my best with the time I have :/. Not that I would ever ask anyone to do work for me, but if anyone wants to pull quotes to help me better see what you are saying that would be great.

That doesn’t really strike me as standard scum play? I don’t think I’ve ever done that, at least. I follow that you think so, but the more I think about it, I just kinda doubt it. Why is that simpler than the cop just playing scummy beforehand and then claiming when they were on the line? Not that understand the playing scummy beforehand.

Because you know there is a real CC and Doc out there. That's a complicated mess to get into on D1, imo.

Blank slot seems like null to me, so I guess I was confusing that? I guess I can kind of follow how you are using it, but I think it's a confusing way to state that you think he's null/scummy. Good to know re: wtl list.

Don't you usually argue that the most straightforward/simplest answer is usually correct, or am I misremembering that?

Sorry, my bad. Someone said lazy and I thought it was you. Re: Ed - he's not been "deep down" in your lists. Pretty sure he's been null at lowest? Yes, you did notice it but you didn't really comment other than not liking his vote. I'm not sure I follow why someone would have to think dice is scum to look at the Marsh train? Marsh is literally the only actual information we have. I can't hate on wanting to look at the other train also though for scum and non voters for 3p now that we know they are someone with an NK. Bold - I didn't say I thought it was lazy? I was asking why you had said it, which I now know was wrong. No, with his claim I don't think dice is scum. I think having a scum gambit here is a complicated thing to pull off and he's most likely the cop. But I hate how he's playing and I can't stop myself from asking why on a lot of his decisions lol.

Here for min. I wanted to get this posted and be here IRL for a bit, but I've just had a student walk in. I should have a little bit of time before my next meeting to be here providing this student doesn't need ages of help lol. - No nk is awesome. @NynaeveNyn, I'm sorry to hear about your dad! I hope he gets some good painkillers and heals fast <3. @ed2funyEddie, sending Healing vibes to your friend! -Turin's post re: clarification on roles looked hella townie to me. Would be easy as scum to just let town be confused. I also feel like I can follow what he's saying, like he is following his own train of thought making sense kind of thing. Not sure I explain that well. Although, know his me/Verb/Rand scum team is wrong lolol. And, I don't agree with the "lumping people with scum is a scummate thing". I focused on DPR for that last game and it definitely bit me in the a$$. @Turin Turambar - What's your suspicion of me specifically? I know you had a tinfoil in D1, but I thought we discussed that and I don't think you've mentioned anything since? -Eddie is still mostly just yucking it up, which is concerning to me on D2 as there is plenty to discuss. Wasn't much involved in D1 or the lynch at all, but votes DPR out of the gate today and is "10000%" willing to lynch DPR with no reasoning?? DPR, who was poking Eddie basically every time he posted yesterday and some today, but is still calling him a blank slot. Granted, I also think DPR is acting weird with his attitude changes. Scummate distancing?? @ed2funy - Literally ANYTHING to suggest how you feel about people outside of DPR? -DPR is crazya** sassy all day yesterday and tells people to "figure things out", but then today when he's getting sussed is all zen and clearing things for the record? Well, except Page 32. This is so incredibly different from last game it is sketching me out man. And I don't like how he's been treating Eddie as a blank slot rather than being sus of Ed for lack of any kind of involvement. Oh now, Eddie's 3p since someone mentioned it?? That being said, I have a little niggling worry here because I did think Marsh was scummy and I agree with his case on Marsh yesterday. I also balked at his saying dice was scum, but I sorta agree with the "hunting around him" that DPR JUST posted. -Lenlo comes in and says nothing of note again. Of all our quiet people, he gives me the most 3p vibes because he's here/involved just enough to sit as null for folks, but not really providing *anything* of note. @Lenlo - do you have any comments or reads??? -Through all the back and forth with dice and DPR, I feel like Rand makes sense. I also think his emotion and tone say frustrated town. I also think it's a good look that he is willing to admit he was wrong and then go into *detail* about how he changed his mind. I am confused about how he has Len as a town lean though? @RandA lThor - can you explain? -Maybe I'm just pocketed here, but Verb's tone and activity still look town to me since it is SO different from last game. I don't see the bad logic. @dicetosser1 - why did you not check Rand if you thought he was so scummy with his votes at EOD??? -Tigraine coming in talking about lynching the cop. @Tigraine - When would this happen, imo?? I can't remember ever lynching an un-cc'd cop. -Heavy is still clear in his language today and I liked his points about Tigraine and Rand and I think he's now asking good questions. The switch in personality is still wigging me out though. -Some of Ithi's posts today I like, but some I don't. I understand treating dice as cop, even though I don't like how he's played it and I thought she had solid points in reply to Rand. I also agree that Tigraine listing out lynches for the following days is sketchy. But, she is also weirdly treating Ed like a blank slot, just like DPR, which I don't understand. And, re: the Marsh lynch, even though I'm on it, I agree with looking at the people on the lynch because it would be pretty unlikely to NOT have mafia on it? I think Marsh was scummy yesterday and I feel like I was clear about it. @Ithillian Turambar - Why is it lazy to look at the Marsh lynch? @Nynaeve I meant Tigraine's quotes of why she thought dice was breadcrumbing when I said receipts. I also don't like the summaries, although I feel somewhat hypocritical saying that, since I'm partially doing that atm since I am short on time.

I've been interrupted like 5 times trying to get this posted. lolme on the flip, It's Hamilton all over again. Dice waiting until TWO minutes to deadline to claim is ridic. If really cop, why would you play so scummy during the day and leave it up to literally having to claim?? Like as town I REALLY don't understand this. That being said, probably not going to ever lynch an un-cc'd cop. But I hate it. In the last several pages DPR/Verb feel like they are playing really different games than they did in the last game, which makes me feel better about Verb and worse about DPR. While I don't agree with Verb's reads list, I feel it is consistent with how he's been playing all game and I like his responses to Turin and DPR. I feel like I can understand where he's coming from. DPR has been much snarkier during night, imo, than he was during day or the entire time last game, where he was town. I don't follow the logic that Verb is Condemner, because he didn't seem to be pushing a lynch on anyone? I also don't follow on Rand specifically being GF or that his EOD looked "much". Or, how the stuff EOD makes Heavy a confused townie or how it's okay about dice waiting to reveal or that Verb was tunneling Ithi yesterday. That being said, I agree that Marsh was scummy and I agree with his case yesterday and I feel like it would be cray to be so forceful out of the gate as scum. However, if anyone could do it, I feel like DPR could, so lean scum. I didn't really like Rand's first posts, but he looks good since EOD. I thought his voting made sense. He didn't really have a choice but to unvote dice and vote Marsh, imo, but I hedge more townie than scum here. I also like that he's arguing not to super clear dice, not because of the not super clearing, but because it feels like a town mindset to not just accept someone immediately as cleared town that's not cleared town and it's fairly against the grain and would feel like a big swing for scum. I can also follow his points responding to DPR and they make sense. Len sliding in and then speculating on what roles will do without providing anything else is wolfy. Ed coming in after DL to complain about other posts and that "if we don't find anything in his posts then that's on us", but not offer much of anything of his own feels on people is also wolfy af. I also did NOT get any breadcrumbing from dice? and why is Rand an "easy kill"?? Ithi moves to town lean - I like the nonchalant response to Verb, it felt like town saying whatever man, and I think it looks good that she was fine with Verb playing a different way because it would be easy as scum to agree and push someone who thinks she's scum. I also like her calling attention to the fact that people should be upset with her for being on Marsh's lynch. But, I didn't like her post about Marsh toward EOD and I don't care for her reads on Ed and Rand. Turin - Same feeling as before really. I think there is some weird logic with the votes and him thinking Verb is scum because of EOD, but ironically, this makes me think town because I think Wolf Turin would be cleaner? He was pretty sloppy with stuff last game too and he was town then, so it makes me think town. He's also back and involved, which looks good to me. Heavy seems to want people to vote him? His switching back and forth between tone/attitude still weirds me out and makes me feel like he's scum, but asking for people to vote him repeatedly seems like a new townie move. Unless he's really good at reverse psychology? So basically, idk here. Nyn is asking good questions and her reads list feels genuine in terms of why she has folks where she has them. Tigraine - Showing up and immediately saying dice was obviously breadcrumbing, duh, and very positive rand is scum based on EOD, wolfy. Although, I am a sucker for receipts so I do like that she provided receipts. Btw, ala sign up thread, my activity is going to go down over the new few days as my work schedule is packed. I'll be here as much as I can.

Dpr that pic is straight up nightmare worthy. Here for a bit and trying to catch up.

I was stating how *I* was reading him. That's different than defense. Second sentence is a straight misrep. How about you read the rest of the posts I've made?? I'm not acting like I had him as scum all along. I have said why and when I now have him as a scum lean.

@Ironeyes - didn't know I had to directly respond to you in order for your read to change? Like, I've posted a bunch of thoughts in thread in the last 15 pages. I had to go earlier and now I'm on my phone. Hit me with it and I'll respond best I can ATM. I've got a couple of minutes.

Dang it, stupid phone, hit enter too soon. @Verbal32 - I don't hate it and could be persuaded, but what's your reason?

Here for a min while the kids are occupied. @Ironeyes - So I'm scum because of something that you think happened on like page 7? What about all the other posts and interactions since then?? @dicetosser1 - Yes, I did ask for reads, but it feels weird that you had to be asked without giving them. Also, irt your feelings on Nyn, it's not that you gave it, it's that it was overexaggerated, imo. Like a gut feel is stated as a gut feel, not with five posts explaining why. Re: rand and us both having him scummy - and?? I do like your question to IE re: why is he tomorrow's lynch though. @RandA lThor It's not worthless to say Ithi is null to you, but that's not what you said in your original post. I also still don't follow your "less chance" explanation. I don't like your explanation of your removal of your Nyn vote, because where was there any steam on her whatsoever? It still looks nervous to me and this explanation does not make it any better. Last paragraph looks like a teammate giving yourself an out re: your read of dice. @HeavyHalfMoonBlade - Doesn't seem to be the passion in this that was there early game? What happened to whining like a B*tch?? Another weird switch of personality. @ed2funy - anything useful to add??? @Verbal32 - Snarky! But that's a good point re: having IE as mafia in both scenarios. I think her original post said something about him possibly being town, but it's weird that she wouldn't bring it back up here. I don't hate the dice vote. I could be persuaded.

I will be out for a little while, but should be able to get back on this evening.