Okay, damn, that does look weird. Especially considering the discussion of Marsh not being target and then immediately saying SK in the second post instead of condemner. Also the excluding of mafia comment is kinda weird too? Why would mafia be excluded if the role is a third party? I did think his play looked like town Turin as I was trying to read through, but I think some of that might be colored by this post standing out to me and looking townie.

I feel like you are purposefully twisting this??? I'm not saying I think his actions were pro-town. I am saying I think they are extremely unlikely for mafia considering how Ed got caught. You said he was going after you because you were emotional. You brought up a meltdown as a possibility, not me. I am not ignoring his posts about you, they are literally at the heart of all these posts??? I still don't understand what you meant?? I started this exchange with adding to them????? lol, I feel like I am beating my head against a wall. You're right, I should not engage any more.

I was just in a game with Turin and he was obsessive about mechanics. I can see him PMing darthe for clarification. I maintain, why would someone who is third party post clarifying posts about their role in the game? I just DO NOT see it happening. Why would IE clear anything up if he's the condemner??? He's not going to come on thread and be like, "yep, this is what my PM says"??? Okay, then quote them for me? I have literally posted about not being able to keep up this game.

I'm not arguing it is town leaning? I'm saying I don't see scum doing it if a scummate just got caught on thread for lying. That is not the same thing as saying it's town leaning??? I don't know what you mean about me focusing on your actions? You brought up the argument about being emo being a reason he should have left you alone?? I don't understand the first paragraph? I'm not trying to defend DPR's actions, as much as I am suspicious of your "case" and how you refuse to consider from a different angle???

Bold is a good point. But why bring up DPR here???

What?

Because he's Turin and he talks about game mechanics all the time? lol Again I ask, if he's the condemner, why bring it up at all???

This is a really good question. @Tigraine response?

Thank you for the double enter thing lol, that's excellent to know. But people could follow the quote back, so again, I don't see how this would be a useful play as scum?? Thanks for the expli though. Mafia usually want people dead that sus them lol. Also, killing someone who is creating a lot of WIFOM can lead to confusion about why they were killed so there's that too. Bold - exactly my point about it would be a weird thing to argue about on thread after a supposed partner was just killed for lying??? I also hate this argument re: most emo player. We can't avoid people for their emotion?? If someone sees something they think is sketchy they are going to point it out?? YOU have the power to control whether there is a meltdown or not? Like, if you think this is a scum ploy just DON'T have one??? Bold - I don't know what you mean by I haven't offered an explanation? What does hider have anything to do with this? It feels like you are trying to make it confusing by adding this in??

Okay, I just went and found this and looked at the page before. No one is discussing this, so it would be legit crazy to bring this up if he was condemner.

But why even bring it up in thread if he's the condemner?? He could have just sat back and let people be confused. Or make someone else ask.

Turin said in his post that he asked darthe for clarification on the roles, I'm not sure why this is a big deal?

First bold - what do you mean by misquoting v. misunderstanding? Italics - Accusing people happens in mafia. It's part of solving, imo. I find the inclusion of dice and Rand together here weird because we don't know dice's alignment? Second bold - I don't remember this? Although, tbf, I have obviously had struggles keeping up. Can you quote these? Second italics - Are you talking about yourself here? I find this really weird also? You cannot expect people to avoid emotional players just because they are emotional???? Last bold - My question here is, what does pursing this get him as scum? Seems a ridiculous play to me seeing as his would-be partner just got lynched for lying. Imo, that mistake would make any remaining mafia be really careful not to lie on thread and sticking to the mistake after it being pointed out seems dumb if mafia. So much easier to just be like, "oops?"

I thought that post from Turin was a pretty pro-town move. It would be way easy to just let everyone be confused about the role and say nothing, rather than trying to clarify. Unless you think he posted this just to get town cred?

Hello again everyone. I'm sorry I am constantly behind, believe me, I hate it. I've been trying really hard to keep up as much as I can, or at least provide my thoughts when I do get a chance to be here. I did warn y'all in the sign up thread that I would not have a ton of time. But it's now been 26 pages since I've been able to be here, Fml. So, I'm going to do this Zander style and start with the posts on this page and work my way back as much as I can while I'm here.

Just speedread through most of Day 2 to page 73. Wanted to be able to do more this morning, but I fell asleep on the couch after I took the kids to school this morning and I have a doc appt now and then have to go decorate for my daughter's dance tonight. Apparently I will just be perpetually behind. Here's thoughts: First - LOLOLOLOL on Ed claiming and then getting caught in a lie immediately. Dice is whatever. He's playing scummy and defensive, imo, and Ed defended him and he had the kneejerk no vote on Ed and vote on Nyn his top town read??, then votes Heavy after Ed's reveal until the lie pointed out by others on thread??? BUT is uncc'd and as many folks have said it will sort itself out. I am going to try really hard not to get sucked into this more. Rand looks town for his emotion and his WIM attitude. I also think he is trying to solve, makes sense a lot of the time and goes back to try to clarify what he means. I also still this his play at EOD D1 is more likely town than scum. His play at EOD2 is more weird because I think it's ballsy to come out against an uncc'd town PR, although he obv made the right call. But still town camp for me. I do like Tig's posts about thinking about the N1 situation from different angles, like I said last night. But then she goes after Rand a lot just like dice - scummates collaboring? Comes back to thread later and starts talking about dice again, although it is right where she left off, so point there. The pot shot at Ithi/Turin rubs me the wrong way, and there is a lot of defensive nature to her posts. Pssible that's a difference in playstyle. Further weird, Ed first lists almost no one in response to Ithi, but does mention her specifically as null and then later says he's leaning town on her, but no reasoning in his reads list? Then she defends Ed and says he gives her a town vibe and puts Heavy at null. Then she votes him even though she prefers Heavy? And then comes back and susses Nyn *after* dice votes Nyn. Heavy is maybe confused, maybe playing it up? At one points says not insinuating anything in a post to dice which felt weird. Also says he thinks dice is town but isn't acting like town but doesn't bring up the uncc'd as a reason for thinking he's town atp? He does that later. Did bring up a good point about Tig and Rand and sometimes does try to explain his thoughts. Complains about people acting too wolfy. I still can't let go of the personality switch when he started to get sussed in D1, it's so weird and I don't see him playing a gambit with it like DPR. I do think it's good that he provided a detailed reads list, although he quantifies it with fence sitting and I don't like a lot of the reads - Ed as null, Turin has lists that are "just accurate enough to be suspicious but wrong enough" -- how does Heavy know what's accurate and what's wrong??? I also don't get Z's questions being deliberate misunderstanding AT ALL. Ithi he susses for saying she's going to play her own way, but he said that too??? Turin looks like he's trying to solve. Even if it seems like he's tunneling and I don't agree with some of his points, I can follow how he got to those questions/conclusions and I also find his tunnel a town Turin thing? The clarification of roles also really sticks out in my head has townie, because scum want town confused and it feels like a decision to share that would be a weird way to try and get town cred. Dpr looks better on reread, but tbf I think I'm reading him biased because his claim felt true. Ithi looks like she's trying to solve. Is rather stubbornly stuck on dice definitely being town, which feels a bit icky with the way dice is playing, but it's also going against the grain, so looks better than just agreeing, imo. Went against the grain with DPR too. I also think she's right that we need to look for people who are trying to be neutral. I also think her mentioning of Ed's weird RB/kill re: dice is a good look. It does wig me out a little that Turin has her as null though, since I feel like he would be better at reading her than me. Verb also looks hella townie to me. He's present/involved, asking good questions, imo, and willing to challenge people and stand up for himself but isn't super catty. His different tone and involvement from last game still makes me feel good on him. I also think not wanting people to yolo hammer is a good look, even if the lynch ended up being scum. Zanlo - I felt like Len was scummy for his lack of involvement, but I try to give replacements their own look. Z seems to definitely be trying to solve and this looks very much like his town game. He was also in thread and pointed out Ed's lie so I doubt very much they are W/W. Nyn still looks town to me for her involvement and questions. I think her post about competing trains re: Tig and DPR is a good look.

Okay, now I for real have to go to bed. I have to be up in 5 hours to get the kids around for school.

You okay?

There is no bus driver in this game!??!?!

I literally told you that I was going to go back and pull quotes to answer your question.

This has all been hashed out before, by both of us, on Day 1. I've gathered your quotes and put them in the spoiler, so as not to clog the thread, with my responses in bold below each. Do all of these mean you are definitely scum? Of course not. But there are several things that niggled at me, especially altogether. So, yes, I found you scummy D1 even before your claim.

So why would you not view them so you can be sure and not lead people the wrong way and/or clog the thread with discussion???

I'm trying to do some catching up, lol, but fine, I will. Also, I didn't say that's why you had votes on you. I was arguing against having to be voting for someone you find scummy, because you can be voting for someone you find scummier.

Well apparently I don't because that does not make any sense to me?? Why would you not check someone you thought was the scummiest????? And why do expectations matter when it comes to who you view?????