Project - Leather bound books

[szilard]

You have given me quite a problem! Those colours...

 

In the comics, the colours are in different order: http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/wot/images/c/cf/Tamra_Ospenya.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100320222133

 

 

 

Why do I refer to the comics? When DB began adapting WOT in comic book form, they started with NS. I will not copy all of his letters, but after reading these through you could see that RJ had an eye for details. See the loooooong quote below.

 

Having said that, in later issues the order of the colours are different.

 

The Guide says:

seven narrow bands of color at both hem and cuffs.

 

The main books say:

 

In a moment Sheriam Sedai appeared, followed by three of the Accepted, their white dresses ringed at the hem with the colors of all seven Ajahs from Blue to Red, and two husky men in rough, laborer's coats.

The seven Ajahs: Blue, Red, Brown, Green, Yellow, White, and Gray.

 

You use eight colours , but Elaida removed the blue from her stole after becoming Amyrlin.

 

So, the colours being at hem and cuffs means to me, that you should move them to the bottom, or put them at the right side or the left side.

 

I know this not a real product, so colours are off, but honestly, I do not put them onto the cover. I would put another thing into the cover instead of the Snake-Wheel (which is mirrored on your pic).

 

I would put this onto the cover: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/wot/images/e/ee/Great_Oval_Ring.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100320235245

 

"Blinking, her eyes went immediately to the object centered beneath the dome, a great oval ring, narrow at top and bottom, its rounded rim little thicker than her arm. Well above a span in height and perhaps a pace across at its widest, it glittered in the lamplight, now silver, now gold or green or blue or swirls of all, never the same for more than a moment, and—a seeming impossibility—it stood unsupported. That was a ter'angreal, a device made to use the One Power in the long-ago Age of Legends. Within it, she would be tested. She would not fail. She would not!"

 

And, you know, White Tower - vagina...

 

 

At the moment, I am working on a comic book with the Dabel Brothers and Red Eagle Entertainment. It is a comic book adaptation of New Spring, the novel. It will be eight issues, I believe it is, and when it is done, they will be gathered as a graphic novel. The artwork is by a guy named Mike Miller, and it is simply fantastic, I have to tell you. It's really just fantastic artwork. The way we worked that is Chuck Dixon, who's a well known writer of comic books, comes up with the script, sends it to me. I make changes and send it back to him, and then it goes to Mike Miller for the drawings. And then the inks are sent to me, and I say, "Well, you've got to do this, you have to do that." And then the colors are sent to me, and I say, "Well, no no no, this is not quite right and that's right." And eventually the comic comes out.

 

Dear Les,

Very good! Please tell Chuck that he did an excellent job. There is only one point that I need to raise. Tamra and Gitara would not be wearing robes. The descriptions of their dresses and jewelry can be found in the book. I appended a note to that effect in the note on the relevant panel, and I'm sending you this version back. Once that change is made, I'm good to go with this script.

Thanks. All my best,

Jim

 

Dear Les,

Very good! I added a note, for the Trollocs at the end, and corrected a few typos—he where it said eh, changing would to what in one place where it was plain that what was needed and would made no sense, adding or removing the occasional s to a word, such as horses for horse, where appropriate—but that was all minor stuff. Go with it.

As for the ageless look, I have always imagined it as being a difficulty in setting an age to the woman. You glance at her the first time and think she's 40, but the next instant, you think she can't be more than 20, and you just can't settle on where she belongs in age bracket. If you try the idea about combining the two faces, I suggest using 20 and 40, not 50. But do you then end up with a face that simply looks 30? I wish I could give you more guidance or a good suggestion. It's a lot easier when I only have to envisage the image in my head.

Take care, Les. All my best,

Jim

 

Dear Les,

I'll get onto the additional characters ASAP.

Here are my comments on the new images.

The Aiel is very good except for the boots, which still need to look more like Apache moccasins. That is how they are described in the main sequence books, a soft, laced boots. The coat is much better. As a note, remember that the Aiel average about 6'2" for a man, about the same as the Masai. There are plenty of them as tall as Lan and Bukama, and a few taller. An Aiel man who is 5'10" tall would be considered short by himself and by other Aiel.

The eagle-beak Trolloc is very good. It was a small thing, but the devil is in the details, and Trollocs just don't get ornamentation on their weapons. Plain—so to speak, despite all the hooks, etc—functional, and not a lot of effort into making them look good. They aren't exactly crude—crudely made weapons just don't usually function as well as well-made ones—but they are never fancy.

Cadsuane. This is not so good. She looks too old and too thin, almost gaunt. Her dress is way too frilly for Cadsuane, and it shows way too much cleavage. Her garments are silk, but cut simply. When she has lace, it's just a touch, perhaps at the neck and cuffs, but she more likely doesn't have any lace at all. She's a woman who does a lot of traveling, and she wants clothes that are easy to care for and can be tended by a poorly trained maid at some country inn. The cross-lacing is off. Dresses in this world almost always button up the back. And Cadsuane is more likely to have a high neckline than not. She makes no efforts to appear in the highest or latest fashion, nor does she try to impress other women with her clothes or jewelry, or to attract men; she's too busy for such foolishness, as she sees it. She is quite impressive enough being who she is, thank you very much. The hair ornaments also appear to be attached to one another, which they aren't. Each one of the ten ornaments hangs from its own individual hairpin. The bun should be right on top of her head, not toward the back.

As a note on her character. Cadsuane was born in the city-state of Far Madding, which is an out-and-out matriarchy. Far Madding has no hereditary nobility, but its politicians and wealthy merchants are all women. There are men who are craftsmen, but a wealthy man in Far Madding is one whose wife or mother gives him an over-generous allowance. The only men allowed to carry weapons of the usual sort are the Wall Guard, and then only when on duty. The Street Guard is limited to truncheons, sword-breakers and catchpoles. Men visiting from other places must either leave their weapons at checkpoints coming into the city or have them peace-bonded, with severe punishments for being found with the wires of the peace-bond broken. Very few of the city's men seem to be unhappy with the way things are. Far Madding is a prosperous trade center. The usual form of address by a woman to man whose name she doesn't know, or sometimes to one whose name she does, is "boy." None of this has any bearing on NEW SPRING, but it gives some insight into Cadsuane, because the city shaped her early years. Quite aside from being the most powerful Aes Sedai living at the time of NEW SPRING, Cadsuane is a formidable woman.

Gitara Moroso. I like this very much, though the dress would not be off-the-shoulder. That strapless look isn't used in this world. Most Aes Sedai wouldn't show that much bosom, but Gitara would. And I like the face, too. Very good!

Moiraine. The dress is excellent, though the sleeves are a bit too wide, I think—remember, Accepted's dresses are described as "simply cut"—but the face seems to have shifted again. I've attached the faces that I approved for Moiraine and Siuan. Also, she wouldn't have her hair in a bun. It would be worn loose. Her left hand also seems way too big; it's nearly half the width of her waist.

Ryne. This is very good except that his expression here seems on the sour side. That would be okay at the end, when he is unmasked as a Darkfriend, but the continuous view of Ryne until then is that he is charming and personable. He's much more likely to be smiling, especially if there is a pretty woman around. As a note, the dagger he is holding is too elaborate in the blade shape. I know there are a lot of fancy blade shapes out there today—Gil Hibben has much to answer for—but knives and daggers that are, or were historically, used by actual people had practical reasons for their blade shapes, even the yatagan and the falcata.

Tamra. Overall she looks very good. The only things I don't like are the off-the-shoulder dress, too much cleavage showing for her—her dresses would have high necklines, much like what you show on the Accepted's dress on the Moiraine image, or at least a neckline that showed no cleavage—and her hands both look much too large. The left hand is also oddly shaped.

Bukama. Yes. I like this one much better. Whatever Andrea did to the chin works just fine. And I like the armor. I hope this helps.

Take care, Les. All my best, Jim

 

Dear Ernst,

I agree with most of the Consultants' suggestions. I know these are layouts and thus rough, but in the finals, the women really need to be wearing dresses. Even in the first image, they wouldn't be wandering about in just their shifts, especially since they have come all the way from their rooms in the Blue Ajah quarter down to the Accepted's Quarters. Both would be wearing something fairly plain, in wool most likely, though Moiraine may have silk. Each has a white ribbon of mourning tied to her hair on either side of her face like forelocks, while Moiraine also has long, lace-edged kerchiefs tied around her upper arms so that the ends dangle to her wrists.

Page 15, panel 2 and panel 4. Here Tamra is shown in a coffin. She would be wrapped in a shroud and laid atop a bier of wood. No coffin. A correction for the script. The panel 3 caption should read: "According to Tamra's wishes, her body was to be consumed by fire and her ashes scattered across the grounds of the Tower by the sisters." Fire should not be capped here.

Regarding Sierin Vayu on pages 16 and 17, please heed to the Consultants' comments. She is as they describe, not as drawn.

Page 18, panel 4. You can shift Moiraine's ring to another finger, but in fact, an Aes Sedai can wear her ring on any finger she chooses or not at all.

Take care, Ernst.

All my best, Jim

 

Okay, Ernst, here are my comments on 15, 17 & 18, plus some additional comments on 14 & 16.

Pg 14, panel five: we should be able to see the vines and leaves on Siuan and Moiraine's shawls.

Pg 15, panels 2 & 3: the sisters should all have white ribbons in their hair as a sign of mourning. These are long ribbons fastened to the temples so that they dangle on either side of the face. Moiraine also should have a long white lace scarf tied around each upper arm, dangling so that if her arms were at her sides, the ends of the scarves would reach her wrists.

Pg 15, panel 3. Moiraine's dress is wrong here. For one thing, it shows folds where it should fit quite snugly. For another, it displays cleavage where it should have a high neck. The titillation factor for this dress comes entirely from the embroidery, which is done so as to emphasize the body's curves.

Pg 16, panel 1. Sierin needs a seven-striped stole, and also a Great Serpent ring on her right hand.

Pg 16, panel 3. Sierin needs the Amyrlin's stole here, too.

Pg 16, panel 4. The woman doing the birching should have her hair in "long, beaded braids" that flail about as she works the birch. This woman's hair is gathered atop her head.

Pg 17, panels 2 & 3. Sierin needs a Great Serpent ring (right hand) and the Amyrlin's stole. Remember that Sieren's stole is only half as wide as Duhara's. (Duhara being the woman seated behind her. Her stole, remember, is red.)

Pg 17, panel 4. Moiraine’s shawl needs the vines and leaves. Part of Sieren's stole would be visible here, too.

Pg 18, panel 3. Moiraine is galloping as though being pursued here, but in fact she is supposed to be riding away very quietly so as to attract no attention.

Pg 18, panel 5. The banker looks too tall, as is she would be taller than Moiraine if she stood. Remember, she is markedly shorter than Moiraine.

All my best, Jim

[Animus.Tesseract]

You have given me quite a problem!   Those colours...

 

In the comics, the colours are in different order: http://vignette3.wik...=20100320222133

 

I get your point. I couldn't find a reference for the order. Found too many statements that are not fitting. Thanks for the informative explanation. Is there actually a source for these letters? Would love to read more on that.

 

You use eight colours   , but Elaida removed the blue from her stole after becoming Amyrlin.

 

Well, I included Black. :) As this a book by the Tower about the Tower I think it's only fair to include it. The new one has a black ring. Quite foreshadowing. ^^

 

I would put this onto the cover: http://vignette4.wik...=20100320235245

 

"Blinking, her eyes went immediately to the object centered beneath the dome, a great oval ring, narrow at top and bottom, its rounded rim little thicker than her arm. Well above a span in height and perhaps a pace across at its widest, it glittered in the lamplight, now silver, now gold or green or blue or swirls of all, never the same for more than a moment, and—a seeming impossibility—it stood unsupported. That was a ter'angreal, a device made to use the One Power in the long-ago Age of Legends. Within it, she would be tested. She would not fail. She would not!"

 

And, you know, White Tower - vagina...

 

One oval shaped.... oval.... included. 

 

 

Would be actually interesting to see, if the colors would look better in a swirl, but I do not have enough patience with my PS skills to make that.

I get not including the colors at all on the cover. A ring itself just seems to... empty.

[Animus.Tesseract]

Also on a sidenote: The brass dies are in! The project can continue.

 

 

[szilard]

I couldn't find a reference for the order. Found too many statements that are not fitting. Thanks for the informative explanation. Is there actually a source for these letters? Would love to read more on that.

 

You know, after being on WOT fanboards since 1996 Sept, I think, I've never heard about that 'problem'. But, using what Eg says: "I surrender to it, and by surrendering, I control it.", so while they have to accept their new garment, they can freely choose the order of the colours.   

 

 

Robert Jordan

"I wrote a novella called 'New Spring' for the Bob Silverberg anthology Legends and the Dabel brothers approached my agent about doing a comic based on that. They had already begun George Martin's 'The Hedge Knight' from that anthology—the issues I saw looked spectacular!—and signed to do Bob Silverberg's story as well. Meanwhile, however, my print publisher, Tor Books, had asked me to expand the novella into New Spring: the Novel. So I told the Dabel Brothers that I wouldn't sell them the rights to the novella, but I would to the novel, if they were interested in doing something that much longer. It turned out that they were and we were off to the races."

 

Robert Jordan

RJ said he was excited but trepidatious. He described the process by which he was in collaboration with the folks at Dabel Brothers. He understood that certain cuts would need to be made as the story goes from the written medium into others, but wanted to insure that his vision was followed as faithfully as possible.

RJ also indicated that he was confirming even minor details with Dabel Brothers, and one example he used was that the facial bars on a helmet were too thin, and that such bars would be ineffective against a sword swing, that they would crumple and crush the wearer's face, and that the bars were then thickened in the comic book.

 

To: Les Dabel

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:55 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: New Spring Script

 

Dear Les,

 

I decided to look beyond the first few pages and found that this is indeed a new script. I'm sending you a copy of it with my comments. Chuck took my comments to heart in many places and occasionally bettered them, but in others, which are very important, he seemed to ignore them altogether. There are mentions of Aiel riding horses, wearing armor, carrying pikes; all of these things that the Aiel don't do. And he still has Moiraine, Siuan, Tamra and Gitara wearing robes instead of dresses. I hope he will take to heart the comments I have put into the script.

 

Take care, Les. All my best.

 

 

To: Les Dabel

Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:12 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: New Spring

 

Dear Les,

 

Very good! Please tell Chuck that he did an excellent job. There is only one point that I need to raise. Tamra and Gitara would not be wearing robes. The descriptions of their dresses and jewelry can be found in the book. I appended a note to that effect in the note on the relevant panel, and I'm sending you this version back. Once that change is made, I'm good to go with this script.

 

Thanks. All my best,

Jim

 

To: Les Dabel

Sent: Friday. March 26, 2004 11:57 AM

Subject: Re: Final Corrections

 

Dear Les,

 

Very good! I added a note, for the Trollocs at the end, and corrected a few typos—he where it said eh, changing would to what in one place where it was plain that what was needed and would made no sense, adding or removing the occasional s to a word, such as horses for horse, where appropriate—but that was all minor stuff. Go with it.

As for the ageless look, I have always imagined it as being a difficulty in setting an age to the woman. You glance at her the first time and think she's 40, but the next instant, you think she can't be more than 20, and you just can't settle on where she belongs in age bracket. If you try the idea about combining the two faces, I suggest using 20 and 40, not 50. But do you then end up with a face that simply looks 30? I wish I could give you more guidance or a good suggestion. It's a lot easier when I only have to envisage the image in my head.

 

Take care, Les. All my best,

 

Jim

 

To: Les Dabel

Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: Characters

 

Dear Les,

 

I'll get onto the additional characters ASAP.

Here are my comments on the new images.

The Aiel is very good except for the boots, which still need to look more like Apache moccasins. That is how they are described in the main sequence books, a soft, laced boots. The coat is much better. As a note, remember that the Aiel average about 6'2" for a man, about the same as the Masai. There are plenty of them as tall as Lan and Bukama, and a few taller. An Aiel man who is 5'10" tall would be considered short by himself and by other Aiel.

The eagle-beak Trolloc is very good. It was a small thing, but the devil is in the details, and Trollocs just don't get ornamentation on their weapons. Plain—so to speak, despite all the hooks, etc—functional, and not a lot of effort into making them look good. They aren't exactly crude—crudely made weapons just don't usually function as well as well-made ones—but they are never fancy.

Cadsuane. This is not so good. She looks too old and too thin, almost gaunt. Her dress is way too frilly for Cadsuane, and it shows way too much cleavage. Her garments are silk, but cut simply. When she has lace, it's just a touch, perhaps at the neck and cuffs, but she more likely doesn't have any lace at all. She's a woman who does a lot of traveling, and she wants clothes that are easy to care for and can be tended by a poorly trained maid at some country inn. The cross-lacing is off. Dresses in this world almost always button up the back. And Cadsuane is more likely to have a high neckline than not. She makes no efforts to appear in the highest or latest fashion, nor does she try to impress other women with her clothes or jewelry, or to attract men; she's too busy for such foolishness, as she sees it. She is quite impressive enough being who she is, thank you very much. The hair ornaments also appear to be attached to one another, which they aren't. Each one of the ten ornaments hangs from its own individual hairpin. The bun should be right on top of her head, not toward the back.

As a note on her character. Cadsuane was born in the city-state of Far Madding, which is an out-and-out matriarchy. Far Madding has no hereditary nobility, but its politicians and wealthy merchants are all women. There are men who are craftsmen, but a wealthy man in Far Madding is one whose wife or mother gives him an over-generous allowance. The only men allowed to carry weapons of the usual sort are the Wall Guard, and then only when on duty. The Street Guard is limited to truncheons, sword-breakers and catchpoles. Men visiting from other places must either leave their weapons at checkpoints coming into the city or have them peace-bonded, with severe punishments for being found with the wires of the peace-bond broken. Very few of the city's men seem to be unhappy with the way things are. Far Madding is a prosperous trade center. The usual form of address by a woman to man whose name she doesn't know, or sometimes to one whose name she does, is "boy." None of this has any bearing on NEW SPRING, but it gives some insight into Cadsuane, because the city shaped her early years. Quite aside from being the most powerful Aes Sedai living at the time of NEW SPRING, Cadsuane is a formidable woman.

Gitara Moroso. I like this very much, though the dress would not be off-the-shoulder. That strapless look isn't used in this world. Most Aes Sedai wouldn't show that much bosom, but Gitara would. And I like the face, too. Very good!

Moiraine. The dress is excellent, though the sleeves are a bit too wide, I think—remember, Accepted's dresses are described as "simply cut"—but the face seems to have shifted again. I've attached the faces that I approved for Moiraine and Siuan. Also, she wouldn't have her hair in a bun. It would be worn loose. Her left hand also seems way too big; it's nearly half the width of her waist.

Ryne. This is very good except that his expression here seems on the sour side. That would be okay at the end, when he is unmasked as a Darkfriend, but the continuous view of Ryne until then is that he is charming and personable. He's much more likely to be smiling, especially if there is a pretty woman around. As a note, the dagger he is holding is too elaborate in the blade shape. I know there are a lot of fancy blade shapes out there today—Gil Hibben has much to answer for—but knives and daggers that are, or were historically, used by actual people had practical reasons for their blade shapes, even the yatagan and the falcata.

Tamra. Overall she looks very good. The only things I don't like are the off-the-shoulder dress, too much cleavage showing for her—her dresses would have high necklines, much like what you show on the Accepted's dress on the Moiraine image, or at least a neckline that showed no cleavage—and her hands both look much too large. The left hand is also oddly shaped.

Bukama. Yes. I like this one much better. Whatever Andrea did to the chin works just fine. And I like the armor. I hope this helps.

 

Take care, Les. All my best, Jim

 

To: Les Dabel, Ernst Dabel

Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:53 AM

Subject: SCRIPT #2

 

Dear Les and Ernst,

 

Here is Script #2 with my comments added in. There aren't many, this time, and they all have to do with dialogue. Some of that is too stilted, now, especially for Siuan. Moiraine speaks without any contractions, but Siuan is much more casual in her speech. And there is at least one place where someone says something that isn't needed, and in Bannerman Steler's case, is actually wrong.

Sorry to have been so long with this.

Mike Miller has shown me his artwork for the spread showing all of Tar Valon, and I must say that it is beautiful. I'm talking to him about getting my hands on it after you guys are done with it.

 

Take care, guys. All my best, Jim

 

To: Les Dabel

Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 12:09 PM

Subject: Re: Update

 

Dear Les,

 

Things are going pretty well for me. I'm hard at work on Knife of Dreams, closing in on the finish. It will be good to get regular updates again. It would be good to get together during Dragon-Con, but as yet, I don't know what they will be having me do or when, so I can't make any commitments. Once I find out my schedule, things will shake out.

 

Take care, guys. All my best, Jim

 

To: Les Dabel, Ernst Dabel

Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:52 PM

Subject: NUMERALS

 

I'm sending this to both of you to make sure it gets through to one of you. Here are the numerals I came up with. I think they fit well with Elisa's alphabet. I am considering that maybe the zero should be made a mirror image so it doesn't resemble a d so much. What do you think?

 

Jim

 

 

To: Les Dabel, Ernst Dabel

Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:16 PM

Subject: Re: Seruko and Canluum Guard revised sketches/ Page layouts 4, 5, 6

 

The layouts look good, and I look forward to seeing the inks. I do have some corrections for the script, though.

A correction for the wording on page 7, panel 1. It should read, "Lan floated in the ko'di, one with his sword." And in panel 2, it should read, "Lan danced the forms; time flowed like cool honey." Also, on page 12, panel 1, Merean should be saying, "She's undisciplined, Larelle, and too old, I'd say."

 

Jim

 

To: Ernst Dabel

Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 5:35 PM

Subject: Re: layouts H -18

 

Dear Ernst,

 

I agree with most of the Consultants' suggestions. I know these are layouts and thus rough, but in the finals, the women really need to be wearing dresses. Even in the first image, they wouldn't be wandering about in just their shifts, especially since they have come all the way from their rooms in the Blue Ajah quarter down to the Accepted's Quarters. Both would be wearing something fairly plain, in wool most likely, though Moiraine may have silk. Each has a white ribbon of mourning tied to her hair on either side of her face like forelocks, while Moiraine also has long, lace-edged kerchiefs tied around her upper arms so that the ends dangle to her wrists.

Page 15, panel 2 and panel 4. Here Tamra is shown in a coffin. She would be wrapped in a shroud and laid atop a bier of wood. No coffin. A correction for the script. The panel 3 caption should read: "According to Tamra's wishes, her body was to be consumed by fire and her ashes scattered across the grounds of the Tower by the sisters." Fire should not be capped here.

Regarding Sierin Vayu on pages 16 and 17, please heed to the Consultants' comments. She is as they describe, not as drawn.

Page 18, panel 4. You can shift Moiraine's ring to another finger, but in fact, an Aes Sedai can wear her ring on any finger she chooses or not at all.

 

Take care, Ernst.

 

All my best, Jim

 

To: Ernst Dabel

Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 4:54 PM

Subject: Re: NS6 Pg 2 & Pg 1

 

Dear Ernst,

 

Page 1 looks terrific, but while Seroku is properly shown with two swords on his back there, on page 2 he is shown with only one sword on his back. The Thematic Consultants' comments are, as always, good.

 

Jim

 

To: Ernst Dabel

Sent: Monday. November 28, 2005 4:59 PM

Subject: Re: Kandori women & Kandori men

 

Dear Ernst,

 

Regarding the women, they are all right, but remember that the baggy trousers are garb of country women, not city women, who would wear dresses. For that matter, some country women will. Also, some of these women should have a short coat rather than a shawl.

The Kandori men are all right by and large, but the peasant looks too Medieval. Tell him to think more 1690-1700 AD.

By the way. Racelle looks just fine.

 

All my best, Jim

 

To: Ernst Dabel

Sent: Monday. November 28, 2005 5:11 PM

Subject: Re: Thematic Consultants

 

Dear Ernst,

 

The image of Eadyth is spectacular, although, as noted elsewhere, she must have a Great Serpent ring. As for pages 15, 17 and 18, I haven't seen those, yet.

I have seen pages 12, 13, 14 & 16.

On page 12, Siuan seems to have a Great Serpent ring on her left hand in panel 2, but not in panel 4.

On page 13, Moiraine doesn't seem to be wearing a Great Serpent ring.

For the others, they are fine.

 

All my best, Jim

 

To: Ernst Dabel

Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:38 PM

Subject: Re: Thematic Consultants—pg H 15,16,17 & 18

 

Okay, Ernst, here are my comments on 15, 17 & 18, plus some additional comments on 14 & 16.

Pg 14, panel five: we should be able to see the vines and leaves on Siuan and Moiraine's shawls.

Pg 15, panels 2 & 3: the sisters should all have white ribbons in their hair as a sign of mourning. These are long ribbons fastened to the temples so that they dangle on either side of the face. Moiraine also should have a long white lace scarf tied around each upper arm, dangling so that if her arms were at her sides, the ends of the scarves would reach her wrists.

Pg 15, panel 3. Moiraine's dress is wrong here. For one thing, it shows folds where it should fit quite snugly. For another, it displays cleavage where it should have a high neck. The titillation factor for this dress comes entirely from the embroidery, which is done so as to emphasize the body's curves.

Pg 16, panel 1. Sierin needs a seven-striped stole, and also a Great Serpent ring on her right hand.

Pg 16, panel 3. Sierin needs the Amyrlin's stole here, too.

Pg 16, panel 4. The woman doing the birching should have her hair in "long, beaded braids" that flail about as she works the birch. This woman's hair is gathered atop her head.

Pg 17, panels 2 & 3. Sierin needs a Great Serpent ring (right hand) and the Amyrlin's stole. Remember that Sieren's stole is only half as wide as Duhara's. (Duhara being the woman seated behind her. Her stole, remember, is red.)

Pg 17, panel 4. Moiraine’s shawl needs the vines and leaves. Part of Sieren's stole would be visible here, too.

Pg 18, panel 3. Moiraine is galloping as though being pursued here, but in fact she is supposed to be riding away very quietly so as to attract no attention.

Pg 18, panel 5. The banker looks too tall, as is she would be taller than Moiraine if she stood. Remember, she is markedly shorter than Moiraine.

 

All my best, Jim

 

To: Ernst Dabel

Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:47 PM

Subject: Re: Swordsmen

 

First off, Ernst, let's go over the five (out of six) who were actually described.

1) "A lean heron of a fellow."

2) a "fat man."

3) a "ginger-haired young splinter."

4) a "bald man."

5) a "fork-bearded fellow with shoulders like a blacksmith's." He wore a "too-fine coat," i.e. one clearly above his station.

None of the six men is bare-chested. The are described as "six ordinary men with swords at their belts, like any man on any street in the city."

These guys look like extras from a Conan the Barbarian movie. Remember, Ernst, for these guys AND for the Kandori men, their clothing should reflect about 1690-1700 but with Japanese influences. They would not be carrying multiple swords, but rather one each.

Let's see what he can come up with on another try.

 

All my best, Jim

 

Tom Schaad

Now, one of the interesting things that happened along the way to Knife of Dreams was that you took a small pause and wrote a rather short novel called New Spring.

Robert Jordan

Yes.

Tom Schaad

And out of New Spring, which is essentially a prequel to story line that we have in the Wheel of Time novels, became a new project: a series of graphic novels of New Spring. How did that come about?

Robert Jordan

Well, the Dabel Brothers approached me, and other people who had written stories in Bob Silverberg's anthology, Legends, and asked whether we would allow them to do comic books of our novellas, the comic books to be collected into a graphic novel once they were all done, and I had begun the project already—or completed the project—of expanding my novella "New Spring" into the novel New Spring, and I said, "Well, no I don't want you to do the novella. Do the complete story. You can do New Spring."

Tom Schaad

Now, you're listed of course as the writer because you created the storyline. Did you actually go over and develop the individual scripts for each of novels?

Robert Jordan

No, Chuck Dixon does the scripts; the scripts are then sent to me, then I go through them and make corrections and changes, and suggest sometimes a different view, a different scene. I don't mess with it a lot because Chuck Dixon knows what he's doing; on the other hand, I know the book, so sometimes I say, "Look, this is important; you really need to put this in; it's more important than that other thing."

Tom Schaad

How have you found the work? Have you been enjoying seeing them coming out in a different form?

Robert Jordan

Oh yes, the artwork is fantastic, and I've worked very hard with them to get the characters as close as possible as the way I seem them—I say 'as close as possible'; it couldn't be absolutely the way I see them unless I could draw, which I cannot. And also Trollocs. For the first time, Trollocs are being drawn the way I envision Trollocs.

Tom Schaad

Of course, that will be helpful to all the fans of the books, unless of course their own vision is the one they prefer.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, as far as I can remember, there were serious issues too early (artistic, selling figures, money, money etc), so the quality went down to the basement. I do not like comics, so I think it could have been better to publish a quality album (you know, Vallejo etc) or more...

 

Well, I included Black. :) As this a book by the Tower about the Tower I think it's only fair to include it. The new one has a black ring. Quite foreshadowing. ^^

 

You know, I meant Tar Valon, when I mentioned vagina: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/rad-des-tijds/images/9/9e/Map_of_Tar_Valon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121117231639

 

so, it's a Tar Valon Edition, not a WT ed.

 

Would be actually interesting to see, if the colors would look better in a swirl, but I do not have enough patience with my PS skills to make that.

I get not including the colors at all on the cover. A ring itself just seems to... empty.

 

I have zero aesthetical sense, so my opinion is irrelevant, but "Sterling silver Flame of Tar Valon™ Necklace from the officially licensed Wheel of Time™ Jewelry line. The necklace is available in the seven colors of the Ajah™ as well as the Black Ajah™."

 

Maybe 'we' should put a Flame of Tar Valon onto the covers; in different colours.

 

Also on a sidenote: The brass dies are in! The project can continue.

 

These brass dies look good, very good.

[szilard]

Animus.Tesseract,

 

What kind of skin do you use? Pig, goat, sheep etc? I hear that goat hide is the best, pig hide is too greasy etc?

Do you feel sorry for the animals, or do you see them as collateral damage?

Oh, and I do hope that you will read your new books. Or do you just make them to spice up your bookshelf? Many people don't read their hardcover books at all.

[Animus.Tesseract]

What kind of skin do you use? Pig, goat, sheep etc? I hear that goat hide is the best, pig hide is too greasy etc?

 

I am using vegetable tanned goat leather. As far as I know it is from somewhere in Afrika.

Generally speaking,  all vegetable tanned leather can be used. The bigger the book the more likely you need a bigger animal.

I was able to get two cases out of one hide and I wasn't very picky in where I placed them. If I would have gone highest quality without no blemishes, I would have likely needed one hide for one book.

 

That greasy feeling you mean can come either from how the leather was treated afterward (waxed, oiled, etc) or introduced during the tanning process if it is chrome tanned.

 

Do you feel sorry for the animals, or do you see them as collateral damage?

 

I do not feel sorry for the animal, nor would I ever consider a taken life as "collateral damage". Working with leather since a couple of years, I do take pride in my work and I make sure that I get leather from reliable sources. If bought from the right source, the leather is a resourceful usage of all parts of an animal and not just the meat.

 

I do not want to get into a philosophical discussion as this will likely end in a meat eater vs vegan/vegetarian. All I want to say is if you decide to eat meat, do it consciously that an animal died, be thankful and honor it by not being wasteful.

 

Oh, and I do hope that you will read your new books. Or do you just make them to spice up your bookshelf? Many people don't read their hardcover books at all.

 

I think they will be read after some time. It might take a bit, but I am sure that they will not just be a shelf item. After all the content is what counts and not the cover. :)

 

As for progress, I ran the first set of embossing and gilding. Not overly impressive yet, but it gets better. I will try a couple of more methods in the next weeks before touching the real books.

Given the theme of a "Black Tower Edition", I do like the grungy look of the 3 golden ones in the middle. The red ones were done with bole and did not work as the bole hardens too much.

The one on the right was done with the iron too hot and the two on the left were done with too aggressive sanding.  

 

[wheeloftimetv]

The one problem I see there is that the colours are reversed....the tear drop will always be the dark leather color while the fang will be the gold.

 

Just nitpicking ;) can't wait to see the finished product.

[Animus.Tesseract]

The one problem I see there is that the colours are reversed....the tear drop will always be the dark leather color while the fang will be the gold.

 

Just nitpicking ;) can't wait to see the finished product.

 

Yeah. I was contemplating about that and you are absolutely right. I had an original design with reversed colors, but for whatever reason, it looked wrong to me.

My original plan with the die was to have the fang in gold and the flame in silver. It did not give enough contrast/dynamics on the first attempt. Once I have the gold a bit better under control,

I think I will revisit that and play around with aging (aka washes). That might give a better result.

 

Still a long way to go until this project is finished. :)

[szilard]

I am using vegetable tanned goat leather. As far as I know it is from somewhere in Afrika.

Generally speaking,  all vegetable tanned leather can be used. The bigger the book the more likely you need a bigger animal.

I was able to get two cases out of one hide and I wasn't very picky in where I placed them. If I would have gone highest quality without no blemishes, I would have likely needed one hide for one book.

 

That greasy feeling you mean can come either from how the leather was treated afterward (waxed, oiled, etc) or introduced during the tanning process if it is chrome tanned.

 

I see. Thanks. Some bookbinders say that pigskin do not like being glued.  You mention the rugged grungy look below: I think this leather is more fitting than an immaculate one.

 

 

I do not feel sorry for the animal, nor would I ever consider a taken life as "collateral damage". Working with leather since a couple of years, I do take pride in my work and I make sure that I get leather from reliable sources. If bought from the right source, the leather is a resourceful usage of all parts of an animal and not just the meat.

 

I do not want to get into a philosophical discussion as this will likely end in a meat eater vs vegan/vegetarian. All I want to say is if you decide to eat meat, do it consciously that an animal died, be thankful and honor it by not being wasteful.

 

I eat 15-20 dkg sausage every day, so... Sometimes I feel for the plants too... I'm weird, I know.

 

 

I think they will be read after some time. It might take a bit, but I am sure that they will not just be a shelf item. After all the content is what counts and not the cover. :)

 

 

 

As for progress, I ran the first set of embossing and gilding. Not overly impressive yet, but it gets better. I will try a couple of more methods in the next weeks before touching the real books.

Given the theme of a "Black Tower Edition", I do like the grungy look of the 3 golden ones in the middle. The red ones were done with bole and did not work as the bole hardens too much.

The one on the right was done with the iron too hot and the two on the left were done with too aggressive sanding. 

 

You know, your enthusiasm what I really like. You remind me those volunteers who correct their pirated content, and while the ones who paid with their money get an edition filled with mistakes and typos, illegal downloaders get flawless books. No offence, ofc.

 

What I want to say that your attempts, your "I will test it, and test it again" attitude that takes something that the modern publishing industry usually hasn't got.  I hope you will understand my thoughts.

[jack of shadows]

@szilard,

You eat 15-20 dekagrams sausages a day and you're big as perrin?

[szilard]

OFF

 

@szilard,
You eat 15-20 dekagrams sausages a day and you're big as perrin?

 

No, I'm just an avg guy, almost six ft 'tall' - in these days it looks like all the youngsters are getting taller and taller -, but even without training (I usually train 3-4 times a week - depends a lot on the actual season) I have a good appetite. Honestly, my body looks quite good.

[Animus.Tesseract]

Some bookbinders say that pigskin do not like being glued.

 

True. But I would say this is more due to the thickness and rubbery texture. You will likely not glue it with a PVA glue, but a good cement glues pig skin just fine.

 

You know, your enthusiasm what I really like. You remind me those volunteers who correct their pirated content, and while the ones who paid with their money get an edition filled with mistakes and typos, illegal downloaders get flawless books. No offence, ofc.

 

What I want to say that your attempts, your "I will test it, and test it again" attitude that takes something that the modern publishing industry usually hasn't got.  I hope you will understand my thoughts.

 

I think that is the advantage of a hobby. You have all the time in the world and can run test after test until you have it perfectly. And I think even traditional craftsmen would do it that way. The mass industry is different. Quality, quantity, and cost do not always go hand in hand. 

 

Plus this is quite a fun project. I enjoy getting a new skill under my belt. You never know when it is needed. In case of a Zombie Apocalypse, I.... can throw books at them. 

 

Following up on the progress of the gilding here is the next set of symbols (top rows). Not perfect yet, but SO much easier. I am tempted to revisit the edge gilding.

 

 

 

As a little side project and as I had so many materials left, I am tempted to try encasing of the finished books. Test subjects below.

 

 

[szilard]

True. But I would say this is more due to the thickness and rubbery texture. You will likely not glue it with a PVA glue, but a good cement glues pig skin just fine.

 

Aha. Thanks.

I think that is the advantage of a hobby. You have all the time in the world and can run test after test until you have it perfectly. And I think even traditional craftsmen would do it that way. The mass industry is different. Quality, quantity, and cost do not always go hand in hand. 

 

Plus this is quite a fun project. I enjoy getting a new skill under my belt. You never know when it is needed. In case of a Zombie Apocalypse, I.... can throw books at them. 

 

I disagree, I think it's all about the attitude. You know, when I send the publisher a list about the typos/size of the book (too small, too big)/quality of the paper, they don't react at all, or they send me an angry letter: "we sold thousand copies of this book, and we did not receive any complaints" or "you should correct these parts in the ebook" ?!   English and German companies are usually send me a "thank you, we will correct them", but the Hungarian ones...

 

When I pay for something I want quality.  We always hear about that US paperbacks are designed for only one reading, well, sorry, I do not agree with this. And it's good to see that more and more people will not pay for inferior products anymore. But many publishers still think that customers will buy anything, and they don't understand the decreasing figures...

[Animus.Tesseract]

I disagree, I think it's all about the attitude. You know, when I send the publisher a list about the typos/size of the book (too small, too big)/quality of the paper, they don't react at all, or they send me an angry letter: "we sold thousand copies of this book, and we did not receive any complaints" or "you should correct these parts in the ebook" ?!   English and German companies are usually send me a "thank you, we will correct them", but the Hungarian ones...

 

When I pay for something I want quality.  We always hear about that US paperbacks are designed for only one reading, well, sorry, I do not agree with this. And it's good to see that more and more people will not pay for inferior products anymore. But many publishers still think that customers will buy anything, and they don't understand the decreasing figures...

 

I agree with your point. I think I need to rephrase to say what I wanted to say.

In general, I think people are just fine with paying something for getting something. Quality is a very second thought. They like the illusion of quality but are not willing to pay a premium for it. Should the books hold longer? Definitely! Will they as long as people are happy to buy the stuff the publishers throw on the market? Likely not. Quality is going downhill.

The ones from Germany are a joke. I was quite pi**ed when I found out that the original English version has only a "few" books, while I paid a fortune for 37 books that fall apart after a reading.

 

As for a project update the collection is growing. I decided to add the compendium to make it a full collection. Same format so easy to do.

 

 

As for the gilding, I have not made good progress. I had finally time to try the lettering. I decided to go with the actual gold leaf gilding for a couple of reasons.

 

A) It looks much better in my opinion.

B) It's more "authentic".

C) It's fun to do, just takes a heck more time to do.

D) The gold foil stamping looks too golden and shiny for my taste. Somewhat fake.

 

 

 

 

I also tried to give the leather a coating with shellac, which you can see in the last 2 photos (The one on the left). Makes some imperfections of the gilding go away. Not sure how I feel about this yet.

 

As for the snake symbol for the cover, I am not happy with the outcome. The bronze stamp does not behave and produce any results I like. Seems that the details are just too small.

I will need to figure something out. Next tests are:

 

a) Make an actual cut out in a plastic film and try to use it as a stencil to apply the size for the gilding.

b) Get a laser cut inlay and apply that to the cover.

c) Get a laser engraving and embed it into the cover.

 

I wanted to try out b and c anyway in the future so why not use the opportunity to play around with it. Currently researching how to make this happen in the most cost effective way.

 

So far so good with the update. I keep posting here. Next post will be in a couple of weeks out. Holiday season is coming and I will be traveling.

[wheeloftimetv]

Narg glad he paid someone to do it for him ;)

 

Still waiting to get it though...should be done next week.

[szilard]

So far so good with the update. I keep posting here. Next post will be in a couple of weeks out. Holiday season is coming and I will be traveling.

 

Happy Randmas for you, and be safe!

 

 

I agree with your point. I think I need to rephrase to say what I wanted to say.

In general, I think people are just fine with paying something for getting something. Quality is a very second thought. They like the illusion of quality but are not willing to pay a premium for it. Should the books hold longer? Definitely! Will they as long as people are happy to buy the stuff the publishers throw on the market? Likely not. Quality is going downhill.

The ones from Germany are a joke. I was quite pi**ed when I found out that the original English version has only a "few" books, while I paid a fortune for 37 books that fall apart after a reading.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

My pals told me similar stories from different countries, but to bring up a personal example: our joint salary - after tax - is more or less $872 a month (and we cannot say a word because our salaries are higher than the 70-80% of the Hungarians), so we cannot pay for quality even if we want to. But we have no problem with mmpbs (Not to mention that usually cheaper to buy books from US than UK - OWC, Routledge, Wiley etc )

 

I also tried to give the leather a coating with shellac, which you can see in the last 2 photos (The one on the left). Makes some imperfections of the gilding go away. Not sure how I feel about this yet.

 

The left one looks good to me.

 

As for the snake symbol for the cover, I am not happy with the outcome. The bronze stamp does not behave and produce any results I like. Seems that the details are just too small.

I will need to figure something out.

 

Can we get a photo?

[wheeloftimetv]

Books done, you can see the photos HERE.

[jack of shadows]

rand's icon is a sword?shouldn't it be a dragon?

look,i can sympathize with narg the trolloc who was scarred for life

(very short life)when rand skewered him with his sword,but still rand's icon should be a DRAGON.

[wheeloftimetv]

Narg agree's in principle but to make it the size(width) of the other icons, it would be to small and the detail would be lost.

 

Oh and thank you for understanding Narg's pain.

[szilard]

*in the spirit of Randmas*

 

Books done, you can see the photos HERE.

 

Narg,

 

er,

 

well,

 

umm,

 

so,

 

any chance to get a refund? Or did you order a lunchbox?

 

 

Slipcase could have been a better solution, don't you think?

[wheeloftimetv]

Narg always hungry.

[Animus.Tesseract]

And everyone a Happy New Year. Back from holidays and back in business!

 

Books done, you can see the photos HERE.

 

That looks really, really nice! Congrats on the treasure!.

I like these type of boxes. Slipcases are great, but real protection comes only from this type.

I can see that the bookbinder faced similar issues to the ones I am seeing (e.g. dies leave not a lot of imprint in the leather.

I envy the big logo in gold. So far no luck in reproducing that.... :)

 

Are you planning to have them do more? The book looks lonely. :)

 

Quote

As for the snake symbol for the cover, I am not happy with the outcome. The bronze stamp does not behave and produce any results I like. Seems that the details are just too small.

I will need to figure something out.

 

Can we get a photo?

 

Unfortunately not. The attempts were so poorly that I did not document them. Really not a lot missed. Messy gold covered leather is not as much to look at.

 

As for the books progress, there is not much to report on. Decided to ditch the idea of the gold logo on the cover and replaced it with a brass inlay.

I spend a couple of hours making the cover symbol in Adobe Illustrator to have it cut and etched in brass. It is currently with the company and they hopefully produce something that is usable.

My skills on Illustrator are not the best and Photoshop skills kind of do not translate.

 

As for next steps, I would need to sand all book edges now, which I am kind of dreading and procrastinating from. Maybe I can motivate myself on the weekend...

[Animus.Tesseract]

If anyone is interested in the process of brass etching. Here is an example of the Illustrator file.

 

[szilard]

Thanks for the update!

[Animus.Tesseract]

And back with an update. The brass tiles finally arrived!

 

 

The company was so nice and sending me also the scraps that didn't make it whole through the process. So I have something to experiment with.

 

What do you guys think? Keep it as is or blacken the background?