Tarmon Gaidon [Advanced Mafia] Game Over

[Shad_]

Really going to bed now

 

>_>

 

<_<

[Zander?]

 

Shad so whats your actual read on Kat?

lol fml

 

 

 

Still want to see a flip but I'm not at the level of conviction which allows me to ride into a lynch feeling good about myself before seeing red.

 

 

She should have been lynched yesterday. Good news is scum at least killed a player who didn't count for us parity-wise so the day/night iteration was not a loss.

 

So Scummy then.

[Shad_]

In Zander-ese sure.

[Shad_]

I thought Kat's ability to pump out long answers in real time was a positive, once she finally committed to engaging the topics. I can also totally appreciate her frustration with the Zander tunnel. It reaches excess and becomes a massive distraction that prevents villagers from doing villagery things and gets them mislynched, sometimes, no offense bro. But they're also easy for a wolf to exploit because they really are super frustrating and you can just let your AtE run wild and conveniently ignore everything else. I did not like the effort it took to get her into this conversation in the first place. Pral's observation about if Believer then Hellian then why oppose a Hellian lynch? Is this what she meant about her thought process not really being fleshed out in her mind until N1 though? Maybe. Total disregard for w/w/w factor is weird, dunno that the Zander tunnel excuse cuts it. Yes it got ridiculous as EoD approached but she had all day.  Her stance on Pral doesn't make much sense to me in so far as if it's how she honestly feels she should want to lynch Pral in pretty much every game ever, and I don't ever remember her doing this.  I don't remember low volume in general being a big ping for her but it's been her talking point all game--Believer scummy for avoiding taking many stances on D1, Pral kind of scummy for low volume/content, Hellian low volume/content but she's new so should be given more time.  These have been the talking points for her.  Meh.  She was afraid to talk in Tel because she got pulled there?  I dunno, when I mistook her for an easy target and tried to set her up in Minions she was super-WIM in my face.  She was afraid to talk much as cop in BM but that's not really the same sort of circumstance.

Should I point out she's been calling out Pral's activity level and Believer's content level as bad things all game but her reason for not having a read on Snow was his lack of meaningful content in her opinion?

 

Yeah I probably should.

[Shad_]

Really going to bed now

 

>_>

 

<_<

rofl

 

goodnight

 

maybe?

 

 

[Shad_]

Should I point out she's been calling out Pral's activity level and Believer's content level as bad things all game but her reason for not having a read on Snow was his lack of meaningful content in her opinion?

 

Yeah I probably should.

To be fair she did say she has a history of reading him poorly. /shrug

[Shad_]

waaaaaaaaaait has Kat even played with John Snow before?

[Shad_]

I don't have the energy to research that tonight, but Snow doesn't play much these days and Kat only started playing again like half a year ago.

 

They didn't play together when she was active a bit in 2012 according to my records.

 

I guess there was Beyond the Wall off the top of my head but he was a wolf and she was a Jester

[Zander?]

waaaaaaaaaait has Kat even played with John Snow before?

 

im looking  at the games cass link for now

[Shad_]

Kat sweets /m160 in QT tell me what games you were referring to here

[Shad_]

I'm not even going to say I'm going to bed this time.

 

Nope.

 

This post is your imagination.

[Zander?]

 

waaaaaaaaaait has Kat even played with John Snow before?

 

im looking  at the games cass link for now

 

 

Hes not in those 3 at least.

 

 

In Zander-ese sure.

 

Is any other language even relevant?

[Shad_]

Minions was her first game back, right?

[Shad_]

That's 19 rosters to pull up. I can do that.

[Cass]

Kat initially showed up with a long explanation directed at me on why she couldn't be active in the QT last night. Followed it up by explaining she's going out of town or will be busy or something and won't be active hardly at all the next few days. Completely fair and legit as far as I'm concerned but continues what I perceived as a trend of avoidance and excuses instead of answering relevant questions. I called her out on this.

 

/m153 she thinks the wolves are Darthe and Pral

 

/m154 asks me what doesn't add up about her read progression

 

/m156 says she had one major suspect the whole game and persistently voted him, how can that be opportunistic?

 

I regurgitate my questions for the 8945t943th time

 

/m160 she says she always finds Snow scummy and missed my questions because they were flooded out by Zander spamming about not sheeping/not showing up on the weekend etc. Says she didn't actually not realize Snow was in the game, just didn't think he had posted any content and didn't trust the people voting him.

 

/m161 Says I'm treating her like it's a foregone conclusion that she's a wolf rather than treating her like a suspect. Says her problem with Pral is that it would be really easy for him to copy his town game as a wolf because he does nothing.

 

~~irt m160 I acknowledge that the not trusting Snow's train comment could be fair given Believer was voting him. I brought up her "throwing shade much" comment and asked if this impacted her impression of the competing trains, also asked if Snow's flip impacted her opinion on Believer as the third train against two scum

 

~~irt m161 I point out that I played nice all D2 and was very open to the possibility that she could be town, she'd ignored me D2 so I took the kid gloves off for QT

 

~~I also ask her whether she feels Pral's activity level was different from his norm.

 

/m170 she says that at the time (EoD1) she thought Believer might have been pushing Snow to take the pressure off Hellian (~~doesn't totally add up since he pushed Snow before there was any pressure on Hellian, but he did continue to push Snow at EoD~~) Says that D2 she was so bogged down arguing with Zander that she didn't have time to reevaluate. But then adds that since Snow died N1 she wouldn't have been able to evaluate further Believer/Snow interaction anyway (~~so apparently the unlikelihood of w/w/w didn't phase her at all?~~) Adds that while she made her comment on Snow he wasn't super high on her suspect list and she hates D1 and she thought Believer's choice to avoid interactions with other players was really scummy (~~I would say he interacted a lot, he just only ever took one hard stance.~~) Says irt my question about Pral's activity level that she's not the sort to ISO other games but she remembers him being more active, says towns should be trying to solve rather than just fly under the radar

 

/m173 Tiink points out that, considering Kat articulated none of this thought process when events were actually happening, there's a good chance she crafted it after the fact to fit the narrative ~~I didn't totally agree with this in my head but:

 

/m176 Kat says she didn't have this thought process D1. Said she chewed on it a while N1 and to clarify things for herself but was afraid to voice her opinions on account of having been pulled to Tel against her will. Says she was too stressed out and distracted by Zander to really explain herself D2. ~~this last bit at least I can appreciate~~

 

/m181 Pral(GOAT?) points out that if Kat thought Believer was voting Snow to pull votes away from Hellian, why was she opposed to lynching Hellian?

 

/m187 Kat says she doesn't think Pral is reading her posts

 

/m189 Asks if we don't think scum would have tried to push Snow more. ~~I'm not sure why??~~

 

/m192 Quotes Snow's role and says she'd have rather had him dead than Hellian were she a wolf

 

/m193 Pral correctly points out that scum would have probably preferred to mislynch a villager like Believer

 

~~Pral's tone in this whole thing is snarky and delightful and if it's bussing it's really great bussing.~~

 

/m194 She reiterates that she voted Believer because she thought his inaction was scummy, and her EoD concerns with Snow never had time to develop because he died

 

That's it for Kat. I need to get to bed, can summarize the rest later if you like. Mostly Darthe and Tiink.

 

Anyone/everyone who was in Stedding want to evaluate what I just wrote, corrections/comments/things you would have described differently?

 

I thought Kat's ability to pump out long answers in real time was a positive, once she finally committed to engaging the topics. I can also totally appreciate her frustration with the Zander tunnel. It reaches excess and becomes a massive distraction that prevents villagers from doing villagery things and gets them mislynched, sometimes, no offense bro. But they're also easy for a wolf to exploit because they really are super frustrating and you can just let your AtE run wild and conveniently ignore everything else. I did not like the effort it took to get her into this conversation in the first place. Pral's observation about if Believer then Hellian then why oppose a Hellian lynch? Is this what she meant about her thought process not really being fleshed out in her mind until N1 though? Maybe. Total disregard for w/w/w factor is weird, dunno that the Zander tunnel excuse cuts it. Yes it got ridiculous as EoD approached but she had all day.  Her stance on Pral doesn't make much sense to me in so far as if it's how she honestly feels she should want to lynch Pral in pretty much every game ever, and I don't ever remember her doing this.  I don't remember low volume in general being a big ping for her but it's been her talking point all game--Believer scummy for avoiding taking many stances on D1, Pral kind of scummy for low volume/content, Hellian low volume/content but she's new so should be given more time.  These have been the talking points for her.  Meh.  She was afraid to talk in Tel because she got pulled there?  I dunno, when I mistook her for an easy target and tried to set her up in Minions she was super-WIM in my face.  She was afraid to talk much as cop in BM but that's not really the same sort of circumstance.

 

 

From the games I've read, Kat reports on/leans heavily on RL time pressures in both alignments. I think they're null here but have already pointed out/thought/agreed the avoidance of the real questions / focus on that is off.

 

Looking at the rest of this objectively, the green stuff fits with my understanding of her progressio/statements on Darthe/Pral/Snow in ISO.

 

Having said that, I still don't like the posts wrt Hellian in her play.

 

Can someone please copy over the wording used by each player for the underlined?

 

 

@Shad - Was it just 'snarky and delightful' or do you think Kat and Pral were actually bussing?

 

 

Also wrt Zander - Zander gonna Zander ldo Reading him from outside this slot, he's very focused on Kat, but he's not ignoring everything else. And to be fair, the exploitation thing goes both ways - it's also very easy for a wolf caught in the fury of TOWNZANDERWIM to exploit the fact that he's 'tunneling'. The difference is really in whether his excitement/tunnel is genuine. I guarantee you here it is. The boy has WIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMMM 

[Cass]

Shad so whats your actual read on Kat?

 

I was just wondering the same thing! 

\m/

[Cass]

LOL this bed talk!

 

I've been having the "JUST GO THE **** TO BED, CASS!!" talk with myself fintermittently all day.

 

MUST.SOLVE.STUFF.NAOW.gif

 

I finished a 16hr night shift at 10am.

 

It's now 430pm.

 

I start back in 3hours. 

 

[Shad_]

Can someone please copy over the wording used by each player for the underlined?

If we were allowed to direct quote QTs I wouldn't have spent all that time summarizing them.

 

@Shad - Was it just 'snarky and delightful' or do you think Kat and Pral were actually bussing?

It's Pral. Pral likes to bus. It's never something he'll get a full pass for, but I like his tone.

[Cass]

Haven't things been pulled out word for word before? I thought as long as it wasn't time-stamped etc it was ok?

[Cass]

 

Can someone please copy over the wording used by each player for the underlined?

If we were allowed to direct quote QTs I wouldn't have spent all that time summarizing them.

 

@Shad - Was it just 'snarky and delightful' or do you think Kat and Pral were actually bussing?

It's Pral. Pral likes to bus. It's never something he'll get a full pass for, but I like his tone.

 

 

And also.

 

I was after your opinion :P

[Shad_]

So anyway I could find zero games in which Kat and Snow played together except Beyond the Wall, and in that game she does not comment on him. She quotes him for a joke at some point, no further mention.

 

sooooooooo

 

Kat

 

Can you explain to me how you always disagree with Snow and think he's scum when the two of you play together?

 

Is this some sort of off-site thing or :???:

[Cass]

OK.

 

Sleep or things aren't going to go well tonight >.< 

Coherent thoughts when I'm recovered.

 

We got this, Town!

[Shad_]

We aren't allowed to link or screen shot. I take it for granted that means I'm not allowed to copy and paste either.

 

I mean I guess I could secretly alter the text but considering people can vouch for it it's effectively a round-about way of breaking the rules.

 

At any rate after looking at the rules now it doesn't seem as explicit as I thought, but I also suck at reading in general and it seems to at least be hedging on unacceptable.

[Shad_]

 

 

@Shad - Was it just 'snarky and delightful' or do you think Kat and Pral were actually bussing?

It's Pral. Pral likes to bus. It's never something he'll get a full pass for, but I like his tone.

 

 

And also.

 

I was after your opinion :P

 

You got precisely my opinion. :P

[Shad_]

Nights like this are why I need to quit Mafia.

 

I'll regret this tomorrow.

 

Feel a decent bit more comfortable lynching Kat after the last half hour or so though. <_<