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Tarmon Gaidon [Advanced Mafia] Game Over

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Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
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http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98231-multiball-mafia-game-over-town-wins/?p=3670993

 

On like thoughts on this post from Scum!Kat in Eld's game please.

I looked at that on N1. Noticeable difference from here that she was actually trying to fake a lot of stances on people, but I don't know the state of that village. A lot of players in this game have been stepping up and wouldn't be easy to call wolfy without backlash. "I'm just gonna ignore it for now because how to you explain yourself out of being nice? I won't do it again... promise.. I'll just be mean :rolleyes:" was some of the awkward dismissal stuff I was talking about looking for. Same with "you have me tinfoiling hard because I just can't seem to get a feel on you when you're doing your best to hunt up stuff on me that's not there :sad:" She definitely wasn't lacking in a drive to keep fighting.

 

God I wish I could just direct quote QT for the rest of you. I need to reread it myself yet but Kat and I got into it for a while and she posted a lot.

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Zander? Spam Master

Zander?

Posted
Posted

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98231-multiball-mafia-game-over-town-wins/?p=3670993

 

On like thoughts on this post from Scum!Kat in Eld's game please.

I looked at that on N1. Noticeable difference from here that she was actually trying to fake a lot of stances on people, but I don't know the state of that village. A lot of players in this game have been stepping up and wouldn't be easy to call wolfy without backlash. "I'm just gonna ignore it for now because how to you explain yourself out of being nice? I won't do it again... promise.. I'll just be mean :rolleyes:" was some of the awkward dismissal stuff I was talking about looking for. Same with "you have me tinfoiling hard because I just can't seem to get a feel on you when you're doing your best to hunt up stuff on me that's not there :sad:" She definitely wasn't lacking in a drive to keep fighting.

 

God I wish I could just direct quote QT for the rest of you. I need to reread it myself yet but Kat and I got into it for a while and she posted a lot.

 

 

As ive said I really wanna see it and see if theres a need to reevaluate her.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

 

Darthe and Wifi arrived quick, Tiink shows up a bit later.

 

Darthe didn't choose and went to Stedding at random.

 

Tiink was out and forgot to choose.

 

Wifi says if she'd known how close the trains were she'd have voted Darthe and let it go random.

 

Darthe starts talking pretty early about how he's being read scum for the wrong reasons, would be a force in the game and wrecking town if he'd randed scum rather than somewhat low effort.  Says to look out for wolves trying to lynch him because his role is going to be a threat to them if he survives too long.  Words it a little more politely? maybe than I'm presenting it here.  Wifi's engaged asking a lot of Wifi-esque questions.  They both take off before I'm really able to engage, long Shad monologue to end the night.

 

Most of the content came today.  Getting to that.

 

 

Pral shows up pretty disgusted that Believer got lynched instead of Kat. Thinks the scum are on Believer's train. (Believer (4): Darthe, Kat, Dice, WiFi) Tiink posts reads--I assume the same thing he posted in here. Tiink's been questioning people's trust in Dice. Pral points out that while Dice's hop around from yolo onto Pral and then onto Believer at CFD was awful but could easily come from his town game. ~~I liked that he didn't use this as an excuse to shade Dice, but I suppose that's mitigated by Dice being scum's night kill. Tiink's bugged by Wifi's ninja vote at EoD and explains his concern here with a meta comparison to BM, which I thought was a pretty good look for him. Then Kat shows up

Zander? Spam Master

Zander?

Posted
Posted

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98...ed-mafia/?p=3710960

Kat- "Honestly I'm not sure. I thought that what hallia pointed out in TAR where he said that about other people not choosing was weird. His vote on me I don't like at all. I don't wanna die so imma vote Kat... yeah lets not actually try to make a case on a wolf... To me that's not very darthelike.."

This is irt Shad asking Kat for her read on Darthe.

Both Kat and Darthe have been completely non committal on a read of the other.

 

THE ABOVE IS ME FROM LAST NIGHT

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

So my comments irt Kat from the previous night, paraphrased, quotes from the game thread:

 

it felt like Kat was ignoring more relevant accusations in favor of dancing around with Zander all day about weekend activity and promises to sheep and crap like that.

 

I quoted: "Zander I'm seriously about to give up. You're not gonna give me a chance, you're going to push the lynch on me and no one else is going to show up to change it. Darthe is gonna vote me for self preservation and Beleiver is gonna continue to scum it up and you will ignore him because he isn't that scummy in the QT, I have given my reads list which you haven't looked at that i can tell besides to tell me I forgot to paste tiink on it."

and I pointed out that she'd never addressed the case for why Believer was unlikely to be a wolf (w/w/w trains really?), that Darthe had already voted her, that I hadn't voted her but she didn't seem to want to address my questions. 

 

quoted ""Honestly Shad there's not a whole lot of other people around to try to convince. And right now his ONE vote is a big vote for me. It could be the difference between life and death, so to say.""

 

and pointed out that she'd had the entire day to answer my questions; it wasn't just some EoD crunch time

 

quoted ""My biggest problem with Believer is that he is now unprovable... IF he's not IC and he IS scum he'll never be targeted. and if he's scum he's a liar anyway.""

 

wondered how her biggest problem with someone she'd been calling wolf since D1 could be a claim he'd just dropped a minute prior

 

Basically tl:dr; at that point was Jesus Christ why did we not lynch this.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

I'm not sure what you're doing cause the links are broken and at first I thought it was just some cloudflare quad post but fyi we can't direct quote qts

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted

Honestly I dont have much confidence in my reads.  This game is tight enough that I think your head has to be really in it to make any choice without backing off of it at a moments notice.  Iget that you want solid reads and commitment but you're going to have to accept that my reads just aren't in a place to have that sort of weight behind them.  

 

In any case, wifi I really thought I had a good read on but she tilts the hell out of me with her constant nonsense so I am saying here that I don't think it's beyond her to do this as wolf and that one bit so long ago where she mentioned a role she shouldnt know was really condemning.  

 

 

FWIW I agree with the first bold. I struggle reading WiFi's posts and I get the impression it would be easy to use that general approach to an advantage as wolf. 

Darthe, is the main point here that you're re-evaluating your read of her, or her ability to wolf?

 

Honestly I dont have much confidence in my reads.  This game is tight enough that I think your head has to be really in it to make any choice without backing off of it at a moments notice.  Iget that you want solid reads and commitment but you're going to have to accept that my reads just aren't in a place to have that sort of weight behind them.  

 

In any case, wifi I really thought I had a good read on but she tilts the hell out of me with her constant nonsense so I am saying here that I don't think it's beyond her to do this as wolf and that one bit so long ago where she mentioned a role she shouldnt know was really condemning.  

 
Zander? Spam Master

Zander?

Posted
Posted

So my comments irt Kat from the previous night, paraphrased, quotes from the game thread:

 

it felt like Kat was ignoring more relevant accusations in favor of dancing around with Zander all day about weekend activity and promises to sheep and crap like that.

 

I quoted: "Zander I'm seriously about to give up. You're not gonna give me a chance, you're going to push the lynch on me and no one else is going to show up to change it. Darthe is gonna vote me for self preservation and Beleiver is gonna continue to scum it up and you will ignore him because he isn't that scummy in the QT, I have given my reads list which you haven't looked at that i can tell besides to tell me I forgot to paste tiink on it."

 

and I pointed out that she'd never addressed the case for why Believer was unlikely to be a wolf (w/w/w trains really?), that Darthe had already voted her, that I hadn't voted her but she didn't seem to want to address my questions. 

 

quoted ""Honestly Shad there's not a whole lot of other people around to try to convince. And right now his ONE vote is a big vote for me. It could be the difference between life and death, so to say.""

 

and pointed out that she'd had the entire day to answer my questions; it wasn't just some EoD crunch time

 

quoted ""My biggest problem with Believer is that he is now unprovable... IF he's not IC and he IS scum he'll never be targeted. and if he's scum he's a liar anyway.""

 

wondered how her biggest problem with someone she'd been calling wolf since D1 could be a claim he'd just dropped a minute prior

 

Basically tl:dr; at that point was Jesus Christ why did we not lynch this.

 

at that point sounds like you have more to say?

 

or am i misreading that?

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted

So my comments irt Kat from the previous night, paraphrased, quotes from the game thread:

 

it felt like Kat was ignoring more relevant accusations in favor of dancing around with Zander all day about weekend activity and promises to sheep and crap like that.

 

I quoted: "Zander I'm seriously about to give up. You're not gonna give me a chance, you're going to push the lynch on me and no one else is going to show up to change it. Darthe is gonna vote me for self preservation and Beleiver is gonna continue to scum it up and you will ignore him because he isn't that scummy in the QT, I have given my reads list which you haven't looked at that i can tell besides to tell me I forgot to paste tiink on it."

 

and I pointed out that she'd never addressed the case for why Believer was unlikely to be a wolf (w/w/w trains really?), that Darthe had already voted her, that I hadn't voted her but she didn't seem to want to address my questions. 

 

quoted ""Honestly Shad there's not a whole lot of other people around to try to convince. And right now his ONE vote is a big vote for me. It could be the difference between life and death, so to say.""

 

and pointed out that she'd had the entire day to answer my questions; it wasn't just some EoD crunch time

 

quoted ""My biggest problem with Believer is that he is now unprovable... IF he's not IC and he IS scum he'll never be targeted. and if he's scum he's a liar anyway.""

 

wondered how her biggest problem with someone she'd been calling wolf since D1 could be a claim he'd just dropped a minute prior

 

Basically tl:dr; at that point was Jesus Christ why did we not lynch this.

 

Mindmelds with Shad again. On theh bold.

 

Wrt to the 'biggest problem is that he is now unprovable' - It's null unless she continued to push it IMO. 

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted

Seriously how much pushing do you two get away with this game without doing jack?

 

Are you reading us as scummy?

If not, what's the motivation for the bold?

Z and I gonna push at random stuff. It's what we do. 

 

 

Should be a fun response, goodnight.

 

I'm not confident enough in your alignment to argue heatedly with you over anything yet tbh. 

 

And tbqf I'm not sure how I'm supposed to work you out  :tongue:

 

How were you expecting each of us to respond to these

 

a) As Scum; 

b) As Town?

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

Kat initially showed up with a long explanation directed at me on why she couldn't be active in the QT last night. Followed it up by explaining she's going out of town or will be busy or something and won't be active hardly at all the next few days. Completely fair and legit as far as I'm concerned but continues what I perceived as a trend of avoidance and excuses instead of answering relevant questions. I called her out on this.

/m153 she thinks the wolves are Darthe and Pral

/m154 asks me what doesn't add up about her read progression

/m156 says she had one major suspect the whole game and persistently voted him, how can that be opportunistic?

I regurgitate my questions for the 8945t943th time

/m160 she says she always finds Snow scummy and missed my questions because they were flooded out by Zander spamming about not sheeping/not showing up on the weekend etc. Says she didn't actually not realize Snow was in the game, just didn't think he had posted any content and didn't trust the people voting him.

/m161 Says I'm treating her like it's a foregone conclusion that she's a wolf rather than treating her like a suspect. Says her problem with Pral is that it would be really easy for him to copy his town game as a wolf because he does nothing.

~~irt m160 I acknowledge that the not trusting Snow's train comment could be fair given Believer was voting him. I brought up her "throwing shade much" comment and asked if this impacted her impression of the competing trains, also asked if Snow's flip impacted her opinion on Believer as the third train against two scum

~~irt m161 I point out that I played nice all D2 and was very open to the possibility that she could be town, she'd ignored me D2 so I took the kid gloves off for QT

~~I also ask her whether she feels Pral's activity level was different from his norm.

/m170 she says that at the time (EoD1) she thought Believer might have been pushing Snow to take the pressure off Hellian (~~doesn't totally add up since he pushed Snow before there was any pressure on Hellian, but he did continue to push Snow at EoD~~) Says that D2 she was so bogged down arguing with Zander that she didn't have time to reevaluate. But then adds that since Snow died N1 she wouldn't have been able to evaluate further Believer/Snow interaction anyway (~~so apparently the unlikelihood of w/w/w didn't phase her at all?~~) Adds that while she made her comment on Snow he wasn't super high on her suspect list and she hates D1 and she thought Believer's choice to avoid interactions with other players was really scummy (~~I would say he interacted a lot, he just only ever took one hard stance.~~) Says irt my question about Pral's activity level that she's not the sort to ISO other games but she remembers him being more active, says towns should be trying to solve rather than just fly under the radar

/m173 Tiink points out that, considering Kat articulated none of this thought process when events were actually happening, there's a good chance she crafted it after the fact to fit the narrative ~~I didn't totally agree with this in my head but:

/m176 Kat says she didn't have this thought process D1. Said she chewed on it a while N1 and to clarify things for herself but was afraid to voice her opinions on account of having been pulled to Tel against her will. Says she was too stressed out and distracted by Zander to really explain herself D2. ~~this last bit at least I can appreciate~~

/m181 Pral(GOAT?) points out that if Kat thought Believer was voting Snow to pull votes away from Hellian, why was she opposed to lynching Hellian?

/m187 Kat says she doesn't think Pral is reading her posts

/m189 Asks if we don't think scum would have tried to push Snow more. ~~I'm not sure why??~~

/m192 Quotes Snow's role and says she'd have rather had him dead than Hellian were she a wolf

/m193 Pral correctly points out that scum would have probably preferred to mislynch a villager like Believer

~~Pral's tone in this whole thing is snarky and delightful and if it's bussing it's really great bussing.~~

/m194 She reiterates that she voted Believer because she thought his inaction was scummy, and her EoD concerns with Snow never had time to develop because he died

That's it for Kat. I need to get to bed, can summarize the rest later if you like. Mostly Darthe and Tiink.

Anyone/everyone who was in Stedding want to evaluate what I just wrote, corrections/comments/things you would have described differently?

I thought Kat's ability to pump out long answers in real time was a positive, once she finally committed to engaging the topics. I can also totally appreciate her frustration with the Zander tunnel. It reaches excess and becomes a massive distraction that prevents villagers from doing villagery things and gets them mislynched, sometimes, no offense bro. But they're also easy for a wolf to exploit because they really are super frustrating and you can just let your AtE run wild and conveniently ignore everything else. I did not like the effort it took to get her into this conversation in the first place. Pral's observation about if Believer then Hellian then why oppose a Hellian lynch? Is this what she meant about her thought process not really being fleshed out in her mind until N1 though? Maybe. Total disregard for w/w/w factor is weird, dunno that the Zander tunnel excuse cuts it. Yes it got ridiculous as EoD approached but she had all day.  Her stance on Pral doesn't make much sense to me in so far as if it's how she honestly feels she should want to lynch Pral in pretty much every game ever, and I don't ever remember her doing this.  I don't remember low volume in general being a big ping for her but it's been her talking point all game--Believer scummy for avoiding taking many stances on D1, Pral kind of scummy for low volume/content, Hellian low volume/content but she's new so should be given more time.  These have been the talking points for her.  Meh.  She was afraid to talk in Tel because she got pulled there?  I dunno, when I mistook her for an easy target and tried to set her up in Minions she was super-WIM in my face.  She was afraid to talk much as cop in BM but that's not really the same sort of circumstance.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

I thought we could our own, the links are the posts i was referring to with the comments.

 

Im sorry my bad.

 

the links are broken though.  They bring up

 

"If you just clicked a link on a QuickTopic message board, please try again: click your browser's Back button, refresh the page, then click the link again."

 

same thing Dice was griping about yesterday when he thought someone was trying to link to QT

 

I think if you copy and paste an external link from a QT it bugs and links to a dead QT page instead of to DM or wherever else

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

at that point sounds like you have more to say?

 

or am i misreading that?

lulz I was posting in stages but got carried away after a while so the last bit was the wot above

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

/m170 she says that at the time (EoD1) she thought Believer might have been pushing Snow to take the pressure off Hellian (~~doesn't totally add up since he pushed Snow before there was any pressure on Hellian, but he did continue to push Snow at EoD~~) Says that D2 she was so bogged down arguing with Zander that she didn't have time to reevaluate. But then adds that since Snow died N1 she wouldn't have been able to evaluate further Believer/Snow interaction anyway (~~so apparently the unlikelihood of w/w/w didn't phase her at all?~~) Adds that while she made her comment on Snow he wasn't super high on her suspect list and she hates D1 and she thought Believer's choice to avoid interactions with other players was really scummy (~~I would say he interacted a lot, he just only ever took one hard stance.~~) Says irt my question about Pral's activity level that she's not the sort to ISO other games but she remembers him being more active, says towns should be trying to solve rather than just fly under the radar

Red is inaccurate.  She suggested it was something she'd thought in the past and I took it for granted in paraphrasing that she meant EoD1.  Could have meant N1.  Noticed this because if she'd specified EoD1 she'd be blatantly contradicting herself.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

/m173 Tiink points out that, considering Kat articulated none of this thought process when events were actually happening, there's a good chance she crafted it after the fact to fit the narrative ~~I didn't totally agree with this in my head but:

And this, I don't totally agree with Tiink's thinking because while the initial questions had been out there a while, the conversation was happening in RT and I don't think she could have really prepped herself for exactly where all it was going to head. He felt the whole thing was too logical but if the story is straight that should be a good thing, no?

 

At any rate it bugged me about Tiink when he said it but I think overall his play in QT was positive.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

She should have been lynched yesterday. Good news is scum at least killed a player who didn't count for us parity-wise so the day/night iteration was not a loss.

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